....'nuff said....

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I reject your reality and substitute my own!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2017 11:01AM by NewtonMP2100.

A truly statesmanlike speech.

I have mixed feelings about this. He was a great and very, very valuable senator.

But he did (some of) the things he was accused of.

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This is the ultimate example of taking one for the team. By resigning, he nails the Moore voters and Trump voters and the whole hypocrisy of the Republican holier than thou coalition. I think we'll hear more about Bill and Hillary as a result, but it would be interesting if there is an effect at the two or three percent level in Alabama.

Who will replace him ?

It opens the door for the Dems to buckle down and really check the Repubs..it's a good thing..that said, very sad to see Al go (this way)..

Now it's wait and see if the Dems have a decent end game for this..i think they need to put the @#$%& screws down on em.

"I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office and a man who repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party."

I still think he's a classy guy. Even if every one of the accusations was exactly as described (and more importantly, that the women perceived his intent accurately, which I think is another matter entirely), they pale before Trump and Moore's allegations. And unlike those two, while he disputed versions of events and remembrances of events, he never called these women liars or imputed political or nefarious motivations to them.

In this environment, I think unfortunately, there was no room for due process. (I agree that this is, by the nature of these things, difficult, and we don't have a great way of handling it).

But I think he recognized that fact, and accepted that there was nothing else to do but step down at this point.

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Kraniac
It opens the door for the Dems to buckle down and really check the Repubs..it's a good thing..that said, very sad to see Al go (this way)..

Now it's wait and see if the Dems have a decent end game for this..i think they need to put the @#$%& screws down on em.

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Ca Bob
This is the ultimate example of taking one for the team. By resigning, he nails the Moore voters and Trump voters and the whole hypocrisy of the Republican holier than thou coalition. I think we'll hear more about Bill and Hillary as a result, but it would be interesting if there is an effect at the two or three percent level in Alabama.

This won't change a thing. Except that we'll have one less Senator championing the rights of veterans (who are being screwed over even as we speak) and the middle class (who are being screwed over even as we speak). No Republican will feel anything different about their teammates whatsoever, and pious words from the Democrats can't and won't change that. The GOP couldn't care less about any of this -- as long as they "won" and the Democrats "lost", that's the end of it.

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This is a net loss, but he was not blameless.

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sekker
This is a net loss, but he was not blameless.

There are trade-offs. It feels unfair for Franken to be held to a "new" standard of "what you can get away with and what you can't", but that's bound to happen to some people any time standards change. He was generally a good senator and in that there may very well be a loss. Those are negatives. But a positive is that Democrats can more consistently push for more universal acceptance of the standard.

Yes, Republicans are going to ignore the new standard. And they may get away with it in next year's Congressional elections. But I'd rather the Democrats went into those elections pushing for these new standards and losing than not pushing for them and losing anyway. I'm sounding like a bit of a broken record, but I think the key demographic for Democrats next year will be moderate conservative suburban white women. I think hanging "Moore the 14 year old girl molester" on the necks of the Republicans may help some of them stay home on election day or vote for a Democrat. I think the potential gain to women's rights is worth the sacrifice of a generally good senator who presumed too much with women.

That is what I think given the circumstances we have now. If it were the case that Franken was essentially the 51st senator of a Democratic majority in the Senate and the Minnesota governor was a Republican (so would name a Republican to replace Franken) and Trump was president and the House had a Republican majority, then I'm pretty sure I'd feel differently about the trade-offs.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2017 03:34PM by Ted King.

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$tevie

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Kraniac
It opens the door for the Dems to buckle down and really check the Repubs..it's a good thing..that said, very sad to see Al go (this way)..

Now it's wait and see if the Dems have a decent end game for this..i think they need to put the @#$%& screws down on em.

Quote
Ca Bob
This is the ultimate example of taking one for the team. By resigning, he nails the Moore voters and Trump voters and the whole hypocrisy of the Republican holier than thou coalition. I think we'll hear more about Bill and Hillary as a result, but it would be interesting if there is an effect at the two or three percent level in Alabama.

This won't change a thing. Except that we'll have one less Senator championing the rights of veterans (who are being screwed over even as we speak) and the middle class (who are being screwed over even as we speak). No Republican will feel anything different about their teammates whatsoever, and pious words from the Democrats can't and won't change that. The GOP couldn't care less about any of this -- as long as they "won" and the Democrats "lost", that's the end of it.

And I think anyone who thinks Republicans will care and think of this as an example to follow are ascribing qualities to Republicans that they simply do not possess.

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Steve G.
"I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office and a man who repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party."

I would have preferred one of his Democratic colleagues had said this line after Sen. Franken's speech.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

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AllGold

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$tevie

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Kraniac
It opens the door for the Dems to buckle down and really check the Repubs..it's a good thing..that said, very sad to see Al go (this way)..

Now it's wait and see if the Dems have a decent end game for this..i think they need to put the @#$%& screws down on em.

Quote
Ca Bob
This is the ultimate example of taking one for the team. By resigning, he nails the Moore voters and Trump voters and the whole hypocrisy of the Republican holier than thou coalition. I think we'll hear more about Bill and Hillary as a result, but it would be interesting if there is an effect at the two or three percent level in Alabama.

This won't change a thing. Except that we'll have one less Senator championing the rights of veterans (who are being screwed over even as we speak) and the middle class (who are being screwed over even as we speak). No Republican will feel anything different about their teammates whatsoever, and pious words from the Democrats can't and won't change that. The GOP couldn't care less about any of this -- as long as they "won" and the Democrats "lost", that's the end of it.

And I think anyone who thinks Republicans will care and think of this as an example to follow are ascribing qualities to Republicans that they simply do not possess.

Thank you

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Ca Bob
This is the ultimate example of taking one for the team. By resigning, he nails the Moore voters and Trump voters ....

It is absolutely stupid and changes nothing, much less does affect anything on the other side.
It does expose the idiocy of the ourobouros, PC witch hunts unleashed bu the Democratic ideologues....

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Steve G.
"I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office and a man who repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party."

I can’t help but think those last seven words cut in more than one direction.

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cbelt3
Who will replace him ?

That's the question now. Rumors are it may be Lt Gov Tina Smith, a liberal who does not want the seat permanently. That would allow other Dems to get to work on a special primary for 2018. We'll see what Gov. Dayton decides. He was among the people who called for Franken's resignation.

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Lemon Drop

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cbelt3
Who will replace him ?

That's the question now. Rumors are it may be Lt Gov Tina Smith, a liberal who does not want the seat permanently. That would allow other Dems to get to work on a special primary for 2018. We'll see what Gov. Dayton decides. He was among the people who called for Franken's resignation.

Proof that Democrats could not have been more irresponsible, stupid and dumb. The righteousness of the fools that advocated for this are oblivious to the pain and suffering of the vulnerable citizens beaten to mush by the GOP.