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Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 13, 2017 06:01PM
If I was in the TV biz, I'd be tickled by all the job opportunities opening up. With Charlie Rose gone, this essentially opens up the entire hour and a half from 11pm on in most places.

PBS Suspends Tavis Smiley Show Amid Sexual Misconduct Claims
[www.hollywoodreporter.com]
The public broadcaster is indefinitely suspending distribution of the talk show in light of allegations against its host. PBS is suspending distribution of late-night talk show Tavis Smiley following sexual misconduct claims levied against its host. The decision comes after the public broadcaster conducted an investigation into Smiley and found "credible allegations" of inappropriate behavior.

"Effective today, PBS has indefinitely suspended distribution of Tavis Smiley, produced by TS Media, an independent production company," a PBS spokesperson said in a statement Wednesday. "PBS engaged an outside law firm to conduct an investigation immediately after learning of troubling allegations regarding Mr. Smiley. This investigation included interviews with witnesses as well as with Mr. Smiley. The inquiry uncovered multiple, credible allegations of conduct that is inconsistent with the values and standards of PBS, and the totality of this information led to today’s decision."
Smiley, who served as host and producer on the show, allegedly was involved in sexual relationships with multiple members of his staff who claim he fostered a hostile work environment and engaged in verbal abuse, according to a report by Variety.


Charlie's waiting in the cab.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2017 06:08PM by Steve G..
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: December 13, 2017 06:39PM
Was gonna go "Awww..." because I kind of liked the show, but something about him always creeped me out a little bit.



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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: gabester
Date: December 13, 2017 08:00PM
Yes, this is sad but unsurprising for any of these male personalities, but it's high time some of the right wing folks start to take the fall for the same sorts of thing. It does make me suspicious of something underhanded, given how skewed this is towards men from the "liberal elites."

Time to call for transparency on the congressional settlement fund!
g=
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: billb
Date: December 13, 2017 09:47PM
you're gonna need a bigger basket




The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: December 13, 2017 11:43PM
Once again, billb’s response makes no sense given the OP. bunny smiley
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: PizzaGod
Date: December 14, 2017 06:43AM
Quote
DeusxMac
Once again, billb’s response makes no sense given the OP. bunny smiley

I don't know-I was expecting the usual "He won, get over it"....
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 14, 2017 07:16AM
I'm not really buying this yet. Tavist does not strike me as the type.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: December 14, 2017 07:31AM
I'm just perfecting my Tavis impersonation, so I hope not!
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: Acer
Date: December 14, 2017 08:11AM
Internal investigation? That settles it. Stop asking questions.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 14, 2017 08:18AM
Smiley had shared at least one anecdote and an example in a book, about having a temper he had to control. That's something specifically mentioned in the allegations. Seems he was "that type," at least.

more from [www.washingtonpost.com]

Smiley appears to lack the acknowledgment that consensual relationships do not start and stop at sexual acts. Just because someone agrees to have sex with you doesn't mean you still don't make them feel threatened about their job, then or later.

That concept is totally foreign to Smiley and guys like him. And I say that because there's a total absence of that part of this conversation, as if such a thing could not be real.

“Smiley alleged that investigators refused to look at certain documentation, refused to interview any of his current staff members, refused to give him the name of any of his accusers, and ‘refused to give me any semblance of due process.’ “

Here's the thing. Once it's been credibly established that a situation existed, none of whatever else Smiley wanted them to know is relevant.

"Due process" is being bastardized into meaning "judge me on anything other than this."
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 14, 2017 08:19AM
Quote
Acer
Internal investigation? ....

Who told you that?
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 14, 2017 08:28AM
Quote
deckeda
Smiley had shared at least one anecdote and an example in a book, about having a temper he had to control. That's something specifically mentioned in the allegations. Seems he was "that type," at least.

more from [www.washingtonpost.com]

Smiley appears to lack the acknowledgment that consensual relationships do not start and stop at sexual acts. Just because someone agrees to have sex with you doesn't mean you still don't make them feel threatened about their job, then or later.

That concept is totally foreign to Smiley and guys like him. And I say that because there's a total absence of that part of this conversation, as if such a thing could not be real.

“Smiley alleged that investigators refused to look at certain documentation, refused to interview any of his current staff members, refused to give him the name of any of his accusers, and ‘refused to give me any semblance of due process.’ “

Here's the thing. Once it's been credibly established that a situation existed, none of whatever else Smiley wanted them to know is relevant.

"Due process" is being bastardized into meaning "judge me on anything other than this."

Due process needs no further explanation. You're either implementing an investigation fairly or you're not. Sounds more like an excuse to move past it. If there are crimes, you engage the proper authorities. If you list these kinds of allegations as "credible" and suspend or fire him, then I'm pretty sure he'll bring it to court. Either way I'm pretty sure in this case it's gonna get played out.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: December 14, 2017 09:19AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
deckeda
Smiley had shared at least one anecdote and an example in a book, about having a temper he had to control. That's something specifically mentioned in the allegations. Seems he was "that type," at least.

more from [www.washingtonpost.com]

Smiley appears to lack the acknowledgment that consensual relationships do not start and stop at sexual acts. Just because someone agrees to have sex with you doesn't mean you still don't make them feel threatened about their job, then or later.

That concept is totally foreign to Smiley and guys like him. And I say that because there's a total absence of that part of this conversation, as if such a thing could not be real.

“Smiley alleged that investigators refused to look at certain documentation, refused to interview any of his current staff members, refused to give him the name of any of his accusers, and ‘refused to give me any semblance of due process.’ “

Here's the thing. Once it's been credibly established that a situation existed, none of whatever else Smiley wanted them to know is relevant.

"Due process" is being bastardized into meaning "judge me on anything other than this."

Due process needs no further explanation. You're either implementing an investigation fairly or you're not. Sounds more like an excuse to move past it. If there are crimes, you engage the proper authorities. If you list these kinds of allegations as "credible" and suspend or fire him, then I'm pretty sure he'll bring it to court. Either way I'm pretty sure in this case it's gonna get played out.
It sounds like Tavis Smiley is going to war to defend himself. I’ll be very interested to see how this plays out.

It seem an odd conceit that if one version of events is shown to be credible, that it’s no longer relevant to even consider information put forward that is offered as evidence to the contrary.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: Acer
Date: December 14, 2017 09:40AM
Quote
deckeda
Quote
Acer
Internal investigation? ....

Who told you that?

OK, privately-commissioned third-party investigation with results reviewed and acted upon internally. Stop asking questions.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: December 14, 2017 09:52AM
.....they mentioned in one article that his 'temper' was mentioned....and he had many relationships with those with whom he worked......it was alluded that once in the relationship, at times he would blow-up and threaten their jobs....



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 14, 2017 09:58AM
His list of stuff he says he didn't do doesn't include the things he is accused of. He's admitting to having relationships with multiple co-workers who were his subordinates. The women are not saying they were groped or assaulted or that he exposed himself. They are saying they faced sexual harassment at work because having relations with Tavis seemed to be tied to career success. Tavis is trying to make the argument that this should be OK.

You can tell from his threatening tone in his statement that the women coming forward in this investigation need to be protected, and I sure hope PBS has ensured their privacy.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 14, 2017 10:08AM
Yes, he is positing the idea that trading sex for job security is its own contractual agreement, so no one should complain today.

The only trouble for him is that there doesn't seem to be an actual contract about that, and he can't have it both ways.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 14, 2017 10:17AM
Quote
Blankity Blank

... It seem an odd conceit that if one version of events is shown to be credible, that it’s no longer relevant to even consider information put forward that is offered as evidence to the contrary.

The point I didn't make very well was that what Smiley stated as wanting to offer as evidence didn't describe anything that would have addressed the allegations.

In other words his documentation would have to have specifically included something like an email exchange where the accuser said, "and just so you know, I don't consider my job to be in jeopardy because we had sex." How plausible is something like that, to address a thing that wouldn't even be brought up in that way?

But hey, I could be wrong and he'll sue, and those docs will come to light, where due process matters. In court. That OK with you, Acer? Or does a judge need to be brought into the PBS board room to create an ad hoc courtroom and preside there, instead?

I stand by my earlier statement that the term "due process" is trying to be manipulated into "let me completely tell my side of the story" in a venue where that doesn't actually apply: someone else's feelings.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 14, 2017 11:04AM
Well, yeah, whatever scenario expresses the truth. Nobody knows the depth and scope of these relationships. 11 months ago, a woman was never right about anything. Now, they're never wrong. Wtf
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: pdq
Date: December 14, 2017 12:22PM
Quote

Here's the thing. Once it's been credibly established that a situation existed, none of whatever else Smiley wanted them to know is relevant.

That sounds uncomfortably close to "once an allegation has been made, nothing that the target of the allegation says need be considered."
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 14, 2017 12:25PM
Quote
pdq
Quote

Here's the thing. Once it's been credibly established that a situation existed, none of whatever else Smiley wanted them to know is relevant.

That sounds uncomfortably close to "once an allegation has been made, nothing that the target of the allegation says need be considered."

On December 14, 2017 no.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 14, 2017 02:20PM
It certainly does sound that way if you ignore everything else I typed.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 14, 2017 02:23PM
Quote
vision63
... 11 months ago, a woman was never right about anything. Now, they're never wrong. Wtf

If you don't believe the former, and I'm sure you do not, why would you believe the latter? WTF indeed.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: December 14, 2017 03:09PM
......will he now have to change his name to Tavis......Frowny......???



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 14, 2017 03:56PM
Quote
deckeda
Quote
vision63
... 11 months ago, a woman was never right about anything. Now, they're never wrong. Wtf

If you don't believe the former, and I'm sure you do not, why would you believe the latter? WTF indeed.

I believe Hillary 100% because I know the facts and the truth. Zero speculation. You're asking me to "believe" women just because they talk? Naw. I do believe that we should nurture an environment where women are "heard" and a full and fair exploration can commence designed to suss out the facts even if a guy confesses. There needs to be process, not just some speculative bull. You can keep that. Women and Men lie every day.

Plus as I've mentioned countless times before.

I don't do herds
I don't do mobs
I don't roll with the flow just to roll with it
I use my intellect to discern and filter truth from fiction or speculation.

Everybody should adopt this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2017 03:58PM by vision63.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 14, 2017 04:24PM
Did he screw his direct reports? That's a big HR-level no-no at many places of business. There's not a lot of explaining to be done if you've contravened a standard like that so clearly. What did his distribution contract say about workplace conditions? Were PBS' standards evident and in force at the time of the agreement? Did Smiley know that banging his subordinates was not cool with his business partners? Should he have known?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2017 04:26PM by rjmacs.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: pdq
Date: December 14, 2017 04:44PM
Well, we don't really know about any of that.

Nor will we, I'd guess. Secrecy is all the rage these days.

On a related topic, I thought this WaPo guest column today was interesting:

Secret court settlements are a scourge on society

They're entirely right - it's secret settlements that let creeps like O'Reilly skate for so long.

But that's not the only kind of secrecy these days.

You can rarely, if ever go wrong with transparency and due process.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 15, 2017 07:01AM
Quote
pdq
Well, we don't really know about any of that.

Nor will we, I'd guess. Secrecy is all the rage these days.

On a related topic, I thought this WaPo guest column today was interesting:

Secret court settlements are a scourge on society

They're entirely right - it's secret settlements that let creeps like O'Reilly skate for so long.

But that's not the only kind of secrecy these days.

You can rarely, if ever go wrong with transparency and due process.

It shouldn't, honestly, be that hard to find out whether PBS prohibits its employees (and by principle and contract, its business partners) from screwing their subordinates. That's all I'd need to know, really. Did he breach his contract or not?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 15, 2017 08:47AM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
pdq
Well, we don't really know about any of that.

Nor will we, I'd guess. Secrecy is all the rage these days.

On a related topic, I thought this WaPo guest column today was interesting:

Secret court settlements are a scourge on society

They're entirely right - it's secret settlements that let creeps like O'Reilly skate for so long.

But that's not the only kind of secrecy these days.

You can rarely, if ever go wrong with transparency and due process.

It shouldn't, honestly, be that hard to find out whether PBS prohibits its employees (and by principle and contract, its business partners) from screwing their subordinates. That's all I'd need to know, really. Did he breach his contract or not?

I know one thing. There is no way Tavist is going to throw away everything he's fought for. He will never concede.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 15, 2017 11:44AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
pdq
Well, we don't really know about any of that.

Nor will we, I'd guess. Secrecy is all the rage these days.

On a related topic, I thought this WaPo guest column today was interesting:

Secret court settlements are a scourge on society

They're entirely right - it's secret settlements that let creeps like O'Reilly skate for so long.

But that's not the only kind of secrecy these days.

You can rarely, if ever go wrong with transparency and due process.

It shouldn't, honestly, be that hard to find out whether PBS prohibits its employees (and by principle and contract, its business partners) from screwing their subordinates. That's all I'd need to know, really. Did he breach his contract or not?

I know one thing. There is no way Tavist is going to throw away everything he's fought for. He will never concede.

Well, I guess that makes one thing clear: he's tenacious.

If his contract was wrongfully terminated, I fully support his efforts to seek legal remedy. Waiting on the details.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 15, 2017 01:09PM
If you read the Variety article on the investigation - it's pretty specific. And they did interview Tavis Smiley too. No workplace would tolerate this behavior unless they wanted to get sued out of business.
In addition to PBS, Walmart has ended it's sponsorship of Smiley, also his publisher and the tour company that was in charge of his national theatrical tour.

[variety.com]

“Effective today, PBS has indefinitely suspended distribution of ‘Tavis Smiley,’ produced by TS Media, an independent production company,” the public broadcaster said. “PBS engaged an outside law firm to conduct an investigation immediately after learning of troubling allegations regarding Mr. Smiley. This investigation included interviews with witnesses as well as with Mr. Smiley. The inquiry uncovered multiple, credible allegations of conduct that is inconsistent with the values and standards of PBS, and the totality of this information led to today’s decision.”

Sources close to the production told Variety that PBS hired attorney Sarah Taylor Wirtz of the firm MSK to oversee an investigation into Smiley’s behavior after receiving allegations of misconduct by Smiley, who hosts and produces the talk show. Wirtz declined Variety‘s request for comment. According to sources, MSK took reports from 10 witnesses, a mix of men and women of different races and employment levels in Smiley’s organization, most of them former staffers.

The investigation found credible allegations that Smiley had engaged in sexual relationships with multiple subordinates, sources said. Some witnesses interviewed expressed concern that their employment status was linked to the status of a sexual relationship with Smiley. In general, witnesses described Smiley as creating a verbally abusive and threatening environment that went beyond what could be expected in a typical high-pressure work environment. Several expressed concerns about retaliation...
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 16, 2017 01:52AM
I disagree Lemon, For a lot of people, the only potential mates they'll ever encounter is at work. People date, and sleep with co-workers, subordinates, bosses all the time. They even marry them. You can always quit a job. I worked in Hollywood for a long time and there is always screaming and high tension because so much money per day/hour/minute is being spent and there is fierce accountability. I don't see anything that is abnormal in that description.

Like the outside law firm was going to report nothing at all. I don't think so.

Now when he and Cornel West did their "Poverty Tour" that was sponsored by Wells Fargo that was designed to shame Obama, nobody ever asked him what they did with all of that money.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2017 01:53AM by vision63.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 16, 2017 02:15PM
Every organization gets to decide (within the confines of the law) what sort of workplace culture they want, and what they will and will not tolerate. It's clear that PBS/NPR is not going to permit sexual harassment or other abusive practices, and will take claims very seriously.

I agree that a lot of people meet their SO's at work, that's cool. But it requires a lot of professionalism to avoid trouble, especially in the case of senior/junior relationships. Those can and do cause all manner of problems, including sexual misconduct lawsuits. Every employer needs clear policies on this, and any couple in that sort of relationship should exercise extreme caution (especially the senior person).

I've heard of "love contracts" at some places, designed to head off trouble for the employer.... This contract basically says the relationship is consensual and that the couple understands the company's anti-harassment polices.

Maybe what we need is just more professionalism? Couldn't hurt.
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Re: Whoops-so long Tavis Smiley
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 18, 2017 03:40PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Every organization gets to decide (within the confines of the law) what sort of workplace culture they want, and what they will and will not tolerate. It's clear that PBS/NPR is not going to permit sexual harassment or other abusive practices, and will take claims very seriously.

I agree that a lot of people meet their SO's at work, that's cool. But it requires a lot of professionalism to avoid trouble, especially in the case of senior/junior relationships. Those can and do cause all manner of problems, including sexual misconduct lawsuits. Every employer needs clear policies on this, and any couple in that sort of relationship should exercise extreme caution (especially the senior person).

I've heard of "love contracts" at some places, designed to head off trouble for the employer.... This contract basically says the relationship is consensual and that the couple understands the company's anti-harassment polices.

Maybe what we need is just more professionalism? Couldn't hurt.

No it couldn't hurt. Not at all. I hear you.
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