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Was there a continuous thread from TR's progressivism to FDR's new deal?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: December 14, 2017 05:48PM
?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2017 05:49PM by Dennis S.
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Re: Was there a continuous thread from TR's progressivism to FDR's new deal?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: December 14, 2017 07:53PM
Do you mean the Presidents, or in the population?



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Re: Was there a continuous thread from TR's progressivism to FDR's new deal?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: December 14, 2017 08:07PM
Quote
$tevie
Do you mean the Presidents, or in the population?

The zeitgeist, which I think would be the population, along with all levels of politics. I guess similar to Reagan to Trump.
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Re: Was there a continuous thread from TR's progressivism to FDR's new deal?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: December 14, 2017 08:50PM
Hmmm, interesting but I have no answer.



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Re: Was there a continuous thread from TR's progressivism to FDR's new deal?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: December 14, 2017 10:01PM
Certainly. But people elected Republicans anyway.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Was there a continuous thread from TR's progressivism to FDR's new deal?
Posted by: Acer
Date: December 15, 2017 09:35AM
I would say the general population's positive attitude toward progressivism lasted up through Nixon. Look at the major highway projects of the 1950s, the Great Society of Johnson in the 60s, and the environmental reforms signed by Nixon in the 70s. It faltered with inflation making everybody nervous about their pocketbooks, the stink of Watergate tainting national politics, and the collapse of heavy manufacturing in the late 1970s with some gone-to-the-well-too-often-big-strikes taking the shine off unions. Then came Reagan and his pirates to raid the treasury to starve the progressive agenda of resources.
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Re: Was there a continuous thread from TR's progressivism to FDR's new deal?
Posted by: numbered
Date: December 15, 2017 12:07PM
It is hard to see the Coolidge-Harding-Hoover sequence as a progressive time. Coolidge was a kind of 19th century throwback, Harding had wall to wall scandals, and Hoover had to cope with the beginning of the Depression. Hoover had particularly bad luck since economists really did not understand recessions until Keynes. The conventional wisdom was to suffer until the pain went away on its own.
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Re: Was there a continuous thread from TR's progressivism to FDR's new deal?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: December 15, 2017 12:49PM
Right. But did the movement continue underground or did it die out and then spring back up independently with FDR?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2017 12:53PM by Dennis S.
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Re: Was there a continuous thread from TR's progressivism to FDR's new deal?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: December 15, 2017 01:11PM
I think the zeitgeist is manifestation of the larger conflict between labor and capital. TR arose during the Gilded Age when industrial capitalists were taking huge advantage of lack of government regulation. TR was able to ride the populist revolt against the worst of the capitalist excesses of the time. This was hardly only a TR phenomenon - labor gained a fair amount of power by the beating back the brutality of the industrial capitalists and forming effective labor unions.

I think as the worst of the capitalist excesses were tamped down some, the energy was reduced in that populist movement but there certainly were many people who still called for reducing the power of capitalists. Their voices didn't attract as much of a following, though.

At the beginning The Great Depression and the rise of FDR many laborers were not exactly coming from the same anti-industrialist sentiment as in the Gilded Age, but were open to more socialism because the private part of the economic system was failing them so badly.

We seem to be in another Gilded Age at least urged into existence by the anti-union, "government is the problem" Reagan. The voices against capitalist's excesses have been, of course, still around, but they have been heard less than any time since The Great Depression. As income inequality grows, I suspect that the momentum toward labor will grow. If we have a nasty recession while Trump is in office, I think the zeitgeist will expand with a burst of new vigor.



That analysis and a dime are probably worth a dime, but that's the way it seems to me based on what I understand at the moment.
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Re: Was there a continuous thread from TR's progressivism to FDR's new deal?
Posted by: numbered
Date: December 15, 2017 02:34PM
There were two main threads of the progressives. The labor movement, which became very Democratic, was a force as Ted pointed out.

The other thread was made up of liberal Republicans and Democrats, many from New England and the West. They were the good government, technocratic types. They were still working in the States to advance progressive causes. (Believe it or not, there were still liberal Republicans in Oregon when I was growing up.)

They were battled by city machines (mostly Dems), and capitalist Republicans.

FDR was able to capture all the but the 'malefactors of great wealth' in his coalitions. But not all the coalition was progressive (eg, the Dixiecrats.)
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Re: Was there a continuous thread from TR's progressivism to FDR's new deal?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: December 15, 2017 04:42PM
Quote
numbered
There were two main threads of the progressives. The labor movement, which became very Democratic, was a force as Ted pointed out.

The other thread was made up of liberal Republicans and Democrats, many from New England and the West. They were the good government, technocratic types. They were still working in the States to advance progressive causes. (Believe it or not, there were still liberal Republicans in Oregon when I was growing up.)

They were battled by city machines (mostly Dems), and capitalist Republicans.

FDR was able to capture all the but the 'malefactors of great wealth' in his coalitions. But not all the coalition was progressive (eg, the Dixiecrats.)

Yeah, TR did a lot of valuable work toward establishing a professionalized civil service (IOW, not corrupted by patronage). That has had a huge impact on reducing the potential for corruption in our federal government. IIRC, the Progressive Party was led by Republicans that splintered off over things like wanting reforms that would reduce corruption.
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