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Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Acer
Date: December 15, 2017 04:39PM
Accused of Sexual Harassment, Andrea Ramsey Ends Kansas Congressional Run

A woman running to flip a Kansas congressional seat from red to blue next year is ending her campaign after allegations surfaced that she had sexually harassed, and then fired, a former subordinate.

The suit was against the company, not Ms. Ramsey specifically, and it was settled in 2006.

“Twelve years ago, I eliminated an employee’s position,” Ms. Ramsey said in a letter posted to Facebook on Friday. “That man decided to bring a lawsuit against the company (not against me). He named me in the allegations, claiming I fired him because he refused to have sex with me. That is a lie.”


Battle won, war lost if Democrats eat their own while the Republicans carry on.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: pdq
Date: December 15, 2017 04:58PM
Allegations of sexual misbehavior should never be questioned.

She must have been a creep.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 15, 2017 05:00PM
Good decision, wish her all the best.

I could not care less the political party or gender or occupation of the person. We have enough predators in Congress, she can stay in Kansas. There are other Dems to run for this seat (in fact they already are...she had not won the nomination)
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 15, 2017 05:06PM
[www.kansascity.com]

also her explanation is not credible

she says she was unaware that her organization (of which she was a VP of HR) settled with the man who brought the accusations against her. she says she would worked harder to clear her name at the time, and cleared her name, if she'd known.
We're supposed to believe that her organization paid off her former subordinate for sexual harassment and she didn't know? Right.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Speedy
Date: December 15, 2017 05:07PM
It happens. Something akin to harassment because jobs were lost and careers ruined:

[en.wikipedia.org]

"On December 15, 2011, Koch resigned from the Senate Majority Leader and announced that she would not seek re-election. Four Republican state senators indicated Koch had an "inappropriate" relationship with the state GOP communications chief Michael Brodkorb. On December 21, Koch apologized for "engaging in a relationship with a Senate staffer," admitted to making "mistakes and errors in judgment," and stated, "It is important that I spend time now focusing on the challenging days ahead as I work through some very personal issues."[3][4]

Koch did not seek another term as senator.[5][6]"



[en.wikipedia.org]

"Brodkorb served as deputy chair of the Minnesota Republican Party from 2009 to 2011, when he resigned to work for the congressional campaign of Minnesota state senator Mike Parry. Brodkorb abruptly resigned both from his position in the Senate and his position with the Parry campaign in December 2011.[5]

Weeks later, Koch resigned her post as Majority Leader after admitting an "inappropriate relationship" with a male staffer. Brodkorb was fired the next day.[6][7]

Brodkorb has announced his intention to file litigation again the State of Minnesota, the Minnesota Senate and Secretary of the Senate Cal Ludeman over his termination from the Minnesota Senate.[8] Lawyers representing Brodkorb have announced additional claims against the State of Minnesota, the Minnesota Senate and Ludeman over allegations that Ludeman disclosed private unemployment data about Brodkorb in an interview with Minnesota Public Radio.[9] Brodkorb's attorneys also announced plans to sue for defamation per se over statements Ludeman made in a press release where he accused Brodkorb of attempting to "extort payment from the Senate."[10]

On May 25, 2012, the Minnesota Senate released legal bills showing they had spent $46,150 to the first 3 months of 2012 to prepare a defense to Brodkorb's suit.[11] An analysis of the bill by the Associated Press showed the bulk of the $46,150 owed was due to attorneys retained by the Minnesota Senate repeatedly meeting with Ludeman.[12]

On June 19, 2012, the Minnesota Senate announced additional legal bills in the amount of $38,533, bringing the total legal costs incurred by the Minnesota Senate due to the termination of Brodkorb to almost $85,000 since the end of the May 2012.[13]"





Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: pdq
Date: December 15, 2017 05:14PM
Bloomberg's coverage:

Quote

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee has not endorsed a candidate. But Ramsey said in her Facebook posting that the 2005 lawsuit was enough for the committee not to support her.

"We are in a national moment where rough justice stands in place of careful analysis, nuance and due process," Ramsey said.

Yup.

Quote

"If anyone is guilty of sexual harassment or sexual assault, that person should not hold public office," Kelly said.

Yup again. But we don't know that she was.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 15, 2017 05:28PM
Here's the lesson in this case: if you get accused of sexual harassment and it turns into a lawsuit or some other legal action, clear your name. If you can't because you're guilty, or can't be bothered to do that, don't run for high office. She either couldn't or didn't. If someone gets a payout over accusations of harassment against you, that's gonna stick.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: pdq
Date: December 15, 2017 05:40PM
The guy didn't sue her - he just sued the employer, and tossed in the bonus accusation (honestly, I'd bet probably just to get their attention).

Quote

Court records show that Funkhouser and the company agreed that the case should be dismissed in July 2006 but provide no details.

Hm. Another secret arrangement. They work so well.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 15, 2017 05:54PM
Yes, that's right. Victims just want attention.

The lawsuit was ABOUT her harassment of him. That's explained very clearly in the Kansas Star article. Of course he sued the employer, that's who has the money to settle with him. And settle they did. It's likely she wasn't told the amount but it's not credible that she didn't bother to learn the outcome of a sexual harassment accusation against her. And if she's that careless with her personal affairs, not to clear her name, she has no business in Congress.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Speedy
Date: December 15, 2017 06:03PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
And if she's that careless with her personal affairs, not to clear her name, she has no business in Congress.

At least not as a Democrat.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: JoeH
Date: December 15, 2017 07:09PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Yes, that's right. Victims just want attention.

The lawsuit was ABOUT her harassment of him. That's explained very clearly in the Kansas Star article. Of course he sued the employer, that's who has the money to settle with him. And settle they did. It's likely she wasn't told the amount but it's not credible that she didn't bother to learn the outcome of a sexual harassment accusation against her. And if she's that careless with her personal affairs, not to clear her name, she has no business in Congress.

That is only a "claim" in the filed lawsuit, nothing you have linked to shows whether it was investigated or what the results of that investigation showed.

Further, it states quite clearly in the Kansas City Star article that she was no longer working for the company when they settled, so how is she going to find out? The way such a complaint is investigated, she may never have been contacted about the allegations, it would have been handled by a different part of the company.

Basically you are making a whole bunch of assumptions not supported by what is available to read.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 15, 2017 07:26PM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
Lemon Drop
Yes, that's right. Victims just want attention.

The lawsuit was ABOUT her harassment of him. That's explained very clearly in the Kansas Star article. Of course he sued the employer, that's who has the money to settle with him. And settle they did. It's likely she wasn't told the amount but it's not credible that she didn't bother to learn the outcome of a sexual harassment accusation against her. And if she's that careless with her personal affairs, not to clear her name, she has no business in Congress.

That is only a "claim" in the filed lawsuit, nothing you have linked to shows whether it was investigated or what the results of that investigation showed.

Further, it states quite clearly in the Kansas City Star article that she was no longer working for the company when they settled, so how is she going to find out? The way such a complaint is investigated, she may never have been contacted about the allegations, it would have been handled by a different part of the company.

Basically you are making a whole bunch of assumptions not supported by what is available to read.

Nothing I wrote is an assumption. And it was investigated, because it was an EEOC complaint. Here's her full statement (from the Kansas Star) with her complete side of the story, and parts of his. This woman is an attorney. If she doesn't know how to clear her name in a sex harassment case, she has not business in Congress. Too much liability. We need people without this sort of baggage. Sorry.
[www.kansascity.com]
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: sekker
Date: December 15, 2017 07:30PM
I'm ok with this situation, even if this is friendly fire.

We have far too many genuinely guilty sleezebags to evict.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 15, 2017 08:26PM
I just love the smarmy subject line of this thread, the "we" shouldn't like what happened. It's been clear for some time now that some of you don't give a @#$%& if any of these allegations are true. It's about what team they play for.

I get it. Politics is only a sport, which makes it meaningless because hey, "they started it," "they do it too," and "the other side is just as cynical and would never 'eat their own'"

Count me out. If you can't value basic decency, the Republicans would love to welcome you into their den. You're begging to join "a winner," and they have the ball. Do it.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Acer
Date: December 15, 2017 10:08PM
"We" is just a rhetorical device. Don't read more into it than it deserves.

I refuse to accept that sexual harassment is a special class of injustice that suspends the rights of the accused. There is no injustice that should suspend the rights of the accused. If we do, it can hurt the very cause we fight for.

We've enjoyed slimy celebrities and professional politicians getting their due, but not every case will be so clear cut. Now we have a single incident, that was settled out of court to the satisfaction of both parties, ending a bid for office before it hardly began. In other threads, by the way, we were told to trust the internal process, but now we chastise her for not bothering to clear her name, like it's a form at the DMV. We're quickly working our way down to the point where just a rumor of a skeleton in a closet will thin the ranks again. Guess which side is going to politically weaponize those rumors. And if a rumor that brings someone down is ultimately proven untrue after the accused has paid the price, it will only legitimize the doubt about harassment charges.

This is very dangerous ground.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 15, 2017 11:45PM
None of Andrea Ramsey's rights have been suspended.

Nobody is entitled to a DCCC endorsement. They are a private organization that can practice free association - they endorse whomever they please, for whatever reasons they choose. And that's all that happened to Ramsey, she lost the endorsement of this political organization and made a decision to withdraw as a candidate for the Democratic nomination.

As for clearing her name, I did not imply that it's easy. I said I find it not credible that she, an intelligent, ambitious attorney, was accused of something this serious and did not follow it through to the end? As an attorney she'd know that a settlement was possible and would be damaging to her reputation, if not future employment prospects. It doesn't make sense that she wouldn't object to the settlement, as she now claims she should have, if in fact the claims were baseless.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: December 16, 2017 07:42AM
[Redundant Post]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2017 07:48AM by Blankity Blank.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Janit
Date: December 16, 2017 08:06AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
None of Andrea Ramsey's rights have been suspended.

Nobody is entitled to a DCCC endorsement. They are a private organization that can practice free association - they endorse whomever they please, for whatever reasons they choose. And that's all that happened to Ramsey, she lost the endorsement of this political organization and made a decision to withdraw as a candidate for the Democratic nomination.

As for clearing her name, I did not imply that it's easy. I said I find it not credible that she, an intelligent, ambitious attorney, was accused of something this serious and did not follow it through to the end? As an attorney she'd know that a settlement was possible and would be damaging to her reputation, if not future employment prospects. It doesn't make sense that she wouldn't object to the settlement, as she now claims she should have, if in fact the claims were baseless.

Ramsey was not a party to the lawsuit, so she had no legal standing to object to the settlement. She was not the accused party, so there was no way to directly clear her name. The only recourse she might have had was to sue for defamation. And if such a defamation suit had failed, it still would not have meant she was proven guilty, only that strict elements of defamation could not be proven.

We may want the legal system to establish "truth" is a way that is black-and-white. Unfortunately, it often can't.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 16, 2017 09:12AM
No it's not black and white. But in politics, you can't have ugly skeletons in your closet and expect to survive opposition research. The DCCC now says it failed to vet Ramsey properly.

According to the Charlotte Observer, Ramsey was one of more than 22,000 women who approached EMILY’s List about running for public office after the election of President Donald Trump last year. Like Ramsey, many of these candidates are new to politics.

That's a lot of people to vet, and sometimes things fall through the cracks. Like this one. We would not be having this discussion if the DCCC had received this information earlier, because she never would have been encouraged to go forward with her candidacy. If there's a settlement against you for sexual harassment in the workplace, you can't be a Democratic candidate for high office. This isn't just an accusation. There's a settlement. Due to her alleged behavior.

In this case the EEOC advised the accuser to file the lawsuit, and he did. And the company settled. Andrea Ramsey is a retired HR executive and employment attorney. She knows how this works.

"In late March 2005, Ramsey made sexual advances toward [Funkhouser] on a business trip, Funkhouser alleged in the complaint.

“After I told her I was not interested in having a sexual relationship with her, she stopped talking to me,” he wrote. “In the office she completely ignored me and avoided having any contact with me.”

Ramsey even moved him out of his office into a cubicle far from her office, Funkhouser wrote.

Before he rejected her advances, Ramsey “repeatedly told me she heard great things from others about my performance,” Funkhouser wrote. “After I rejected her, she told me she now was hearing bad things about my performance and on June 13, 2005, terminated my employment.”

The EEOC concluded its investigation in 2005, but could not determine whether or not Ramsey and LabOne had violated federal statutes. The commission did, however, advise Funkhouser that he could pursue legal action against the company. Shortly after, Funkhouser did just that—he filed a federal lawsuit against LabOne. The case, which named the company and did not name Ramsey, was dismissed in 2006. Sources told the Star that Funkhouser received a settlement."


The Charlotte Observer has a great article this morning about the challenges of vetting candidates in view of this most recent episode: [www.charlotteobserver.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2017 09:18AM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: Are we sure we like where this bus is taking us? Harassment claim takes out a Dem female candidate
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 16, 2017 09:38AM
"Ramsey was seeking the Democratic nomination in the 3rd District in the Kansas City area, hoping to win the right to challenge four-term incumbent Republican Kevin Yoder next year."

Running, but not the party's candidate. The offense might be real, but the designation is hype.
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