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PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 18, 2017 08:19PM
[www.latimes.com]
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 18, 2017 11:49PM
PBS is just covering their ass with all of this overacting. This is the stupidest time ever.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 12:01AM
This brutha was forced to issue an apology for joking that Diddy must've been drunk to think he was going to buy the Carolina Panthers. The tweets in response are on maximum rage because apparently they love the @#$%& out of Diddy.

[twitter.com]
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: max
Date: December 19, 2017 06:09AM
Quote
vision63
PBS is just covering their ass with all of this overacting. This is the stupidest time ever.

Witchunts will find witches....
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 19, 2017 06:11AM
Don't bang your direct reports. Why is this so stupefyingly hard to understand?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: December 19, 2017 06:18AM
Quote
vision63
PBS is just covering their ass with all of this overacting. This is the stupidest time ever.

He has painted himself as a predator.

By his own admission, he's had multiple sexual relationships with subordinates and believes that he has the right to do so without restraint.

"Consent" is a difficult concept at best when one party controls the other's workplace and future in the industry.

Whether he did anything illegal or actionable in civil court or not, what he did was inappropriate. He has subsequently demonstrated that he is unable to distinguish between ethical and unethical behavior. His show never pretended to objectivity, but it's now tainted by misogyny. PBS was right to terminate their relationship with his production company for many reasons.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 06:23AM by Onamuji.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: December 19, 2017 07:41AM
Quote
max
Quote
vision63
PBS is just covering their ass with all of this overacting. This is the stupidest time ever.

Witchunts will find witches....
The progressive snake has eaten its own tail. We have a mad man, Machiavelli or both in power. Foreign and domestic provocateurs gambol in the fields of social media. Virulent hate groups and mongers have been emboldened to a degree that hasn’t been seen for generations.

It’s always darkest before the dawn? We may just find out.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: December 19, 2017 07:42AM
....so Tavis'......Smiley.......was really a smugness smile......



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: December 19, 2017 08:51AM
Ugh..this brutha had a hard time answering that one question about who was still there..and THAT didn't look good..

This whole atmosphere sucks..when i was single, MOST of the girls i was with were from work (places)..subordinates, superiors..whatever..people become attracted to each other when they are around each other..there is a difference between what Louis CK did and..at least from what we know so far about this thing, what Smiley did here...i hope..because there are lots and lots of times that superiors take advantage of there positions, powers and the allure they they think they have..or, have.

I just hope he didn't take advantage of his power and then sort of force these women out of his company..He stopped and thought there and then "mmm 1" (is still here).

Never ever was a fan of Smiley's style on his show..

I really hate the current climate though..there is something extremely creepy about it..anything can happen..at this point, with a few key taps on a keyboard, anything can be formed into 'inappropriate behavior'. When this thing started i took a huge step away from social media..everything felt super weird there and it was easy to see what was about to start happening.

I hope Smiley is able to prove that he merely had a few normal flings and move on..honestly..it was sort of refreshing for him to state that there were no real rules about staff relationships..i just hope that wasn't in place to clear a path for himself..

crazy world..crazy USA


EDIT to ask question: Is this happening in Europe and Asia? What do the FRENCH think of this..?? the french



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 09:04AM by Kraniac.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 09:43AM
Quote
Kraniac
Ugh..this brutha had a hard time answering that one question about who was still there..and THAT didn't look good..

This whole atmosphere sucks..when i was single, MOST of the girls i was with were from work (places)..subordinates, superiors..whatever..people become attracted to each other when they are around each other..there is a difference between what Louis CK did and..at least from what we know so far about this thing, what Smiley did here...i hope..because there are lots and lots of times that superiors take advantage of there positions, powers and the allure they they think they have..or, have.

I just hope he didn't take advantage of his power and then sort of force these women out of his company..He stopped and thought there and then "mmm 1" (is still here).

Never ever was a fan of Smiley's style on his show..

I really hate the current climate though..there is something extremely creepy about it..anything can happen..at this point, with a few key taps on a keyboard, anything can be formed into 'inappropriate behavior'. When this thing started i took a huge step away from social media..everything felt super weird there and it was easy to see what was about to start happening.

I hope Smiley is able to prove that he merely had a few normal flings and move on..honestly..it was sort of refreshing for him to state that there were no real rules about staff relationships..i just hope that wasn't in place to clear a path for himself..

crazy world..crazy USA


EDIT to ask question: Is this happening in Europe and Asia? What do the FRENCH think of this..?? the french

Again. The stupidest time ever. My biggest problem is everyone pretending that women can't lie. To me it's not about what he did it didn't do. He's just one guy. Investigate properly and thoroughly before making the panic ass covering moves.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 19, 2017 10:53AM
Investigate properly and thoroughly before making the panic ass covering moves.

That's exactly what PBS did, they did a proper and thorough investigation, which Smiley is now lying about in addition to threatening the witnesses. Not impressive.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 19, 2017 11:05AM
Quote
vision63
Again. The stupidest time ever. My biggest problem is everyone pretending that women can't lie. To me it's not about what he did it didn't do. He's just one guy. Investigate properly and thoroughly before making the panic ass covering moves.

It's not about what he did or didn't do?

What he clearly did is have repeated sexual relationships with direct reports. It's also clear that his subordinates felt that their careers were connected to the success or failure of those relationships. As noted elsewhere, this is why some companies have rules that prohibit such interactions in the workplace; it's almost impossible to disentangle relations of power from relations of intimacy in such environments. He did it anyway, over and over and over again. None of this is disputed.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 11:27AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Investigate properly and thoroughly before making the panic ass covering moves.

That's exactly what PBS did, they did a proper and thorough investigation, which Smiley is now lying about in addition to threatening the witnesses. Not impressive.

Where's the police? Where is the court? What is the crime? This is California, we got laws. I can call anything I do "thorough." Just because it came out of my mouth. Where is the investigative entity signed off by the accuser and the accused? Who is paying the investigator? How is that thorough?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 11:30AM by vision63.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 19, 2017 11:33AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
Lemon Drop
Investigate properly and thoroughly before making the panic ass covering moves.

That's exactly what PBS did, they did a proper and thorough investigation, which Smiley is now lying about in addition to threatening the witnesses. Not impressive.

Where's the police? Where is the court? What is the crime?

It's not a criminal case or a public case. It's a private business contract dispute between two parties. (Actually between Mr. Smiley and multiple business interests). If Mr. Smiley wants to sue PBS or other parties cancelling business arrangements with him, he can. He's trying to defend himself in public but honestly IMO he's making himself look even worse.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 11:40AM
It's like just because women that have suffered abuse and desire certain outcomes, a full and complete investigation just stops at making the accusation. Yes a bunch of guys abuse women but so what? That was the excuse to treat me like a robbery/thief suspect when I was growing up and and as a young man because all of the guys they caught stealing and robbing were Black. That was NORMAL and accepted. It wasn't by me. I learned to make them pay. This is the same kind of thing. Minnie Driver yelling at Matt Damon when he was 100 percent correct like his voice doesn't matter.

I don't care what anyone goes through if all you're going to do is take it out on people that had nothing to do with messing you over (I'm not defending Tavis because I wasn't there).

I remember when we used to go to Magic Mountain when I was young. All the Black and Latino boys and men had to stand in a mile long line to get patted down at the entrance while all the white boys just got to waltz right into the park like they were so effing innocent. Yeah, Black and Latino men were primarily responsible for the fighting and gangster activity in the park. But you know who wasn't?

ME!

This is the same thing to me.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 11:46AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
vision63
Quote
Lemon Drop
Investigate properly and thoroughly before making the panic ass covering moves.

That's exactly what PBS did, they did a proper and thorough investigation, which Smiley is now lying about in addition to threatening the witnesses. Not impressive.

Where's the police? Where is the court? What is the crime?

It's not a criminal case or a public case. It's a private business contract dispute between two parties. (Actually between Mr. Smiley and multiple business interests). If Mr. Smiley wants to sue PBS or other parties cancelling business arrangements with him, he can. He's trying to defend himself in public but honestly IMO he's making himself look even worse.

If it's not a criminal case then where's the abuse? Because I expect my personnel to do their jobs?
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 19, 2017 12:26PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
vision63
Quote
Lemon Drop
Investigate properly and thoroughly before making the panic ass covering moves.

That's exactly what PBS did, they did a proper and thorough investigation, which Smiley is now lying about in addition to threatening the witnesses. Not impressive.

Where's the police? Where is the court? What is the crime?

It's not a criminal case or a public case. It's a private business contract dispute between two parties. (Actually between Mr. Smiley and multiple business interests). If Mr. Smiley wants to sue PBS or other parties cancelling business arrangements with him, he can. He's trying to defend himself in public but honestly IMO he's making himself look even worse.

If it's not a criminal case then where's the abuse? Because I expect my personnel to do their jobs?

Are you serious? You think that the threshold for losing a business contract should be criminal activity?

I'm sorry, vision63 - we just disagree about this. Smiley has been forced to contend with racism at every turn in his personal and professional life, I have no doubt. Without question, we (white people in particular) need to be careful about passing judgment in cases where race and racism may play a part in the accusation, the investigation, and possibly the outcome. This is especially true in Smiley's case, as his career and reputation carry weight well beyond his immediate sphere.

All that being said, the independent investigation found troubling practices at his show, and I've seen no explanation from Smiley beyond (I'm paraphrasing), 'I never intended to intimidate anyone, and all sex was consensual.' I find that response thoroughly unsatisfying, and I don't think I need to explain why.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 01:48PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
vision63
Quote
Lemon Drop
Investigate properly and thoroughly before making the panic ass covering moves.

That's exactly what PBS did, they did a proper and thorough investigation, which Smiley is now lying about in addition to threatening the witnesses. Not impressive.

Where's the police? Where is the court? What is the crime?

It's not a criminal case or a public case. It's a private business contract dispute between two parties. (Actually between Mr. Smiley and multiple business interests). If Mr. Smiley wants to sue PBS or other parties cancelling business arrangements with him, he can. He's trying to defend himself in public but honestly IMO he's making himself look even worse.

If it's not a criminal case then where's the abuse? Because I expect my personnel to do their jobs?

Are you serious? You think that the threshold for losing a business contract should be criminal activity?

I'm sorry, vision63 - we just disagree about this. Smiley has been forced to contend with racism at every turn in his personal and professional life, I have no doubt. Without question, we (white people in particular) need to be careful about passing judgment in cases where race and racism may play a part in the accusation, the investigation, and possibly the outcome. This is especially true in Smiley's case, as his career and reputation carry weight well beyond his immediate sphere.

All that being said, the independent investigation found troubling practices at his show, and I've seen no explanation from Smiley beyond (I'm paraphrasing), 'I never intended to intimidate anyone, and all sex was consensual.' I find that response thoroughly unsatisfying, and I don't think I need to explain why.

Losing a business contract should be related to doing a bad job. Not saying that he'd hold up to that scrutiny but why would you or anyone else just "believe" PBS in this instance? Why? Tavis is denying that this stuff happened. There are 2 sides at issue here.

If a woman all of a sudden came out and said that I raped her, then based on today's hysteria, I raped her. That's crazy.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 01:51PM by vision63.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: December 19, 2017 02:06PM
V, it's about being the most pure you can be, ascending to the top of the moral heap, better than your neighbors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 02:06PM by mrbigstuff.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 19, 2017 02:58PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
V, it's about being the most pure you can be, ascending to the top of the moral heap, better than your neighbors.


I think that's a strange thing to say.

An organization gets to decide what type of workplace culture they want. PBS doesn't want employees feeling like they need to trade sex for career opportunities.

Seems reasonable, doesn't seem like a battle to be morally superior just for the sake of it.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: December 19, 2017 03:00PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrbigstuff
V, it's about being the most pure you can be, ascending to the top of the moral heap, better than your neighbors.


I think that's a strange thing to say.

An organization gets to decide what type of workplace culture they want. PBS doesn't want employees feeling like they need to trade sex for career opportunities.

Seems reasonable, doesn't seem like a battle to be morally superior just for the sake of it.

Oh, no, that is exactly what this is all about. Just got to dig a little deeper



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 03:00PM by mrbigstuff.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 19, 2017 03:17PM
Quote
vision63
Losing a business contract should be related to doing a bad job. Not saying that he'd hold up to that scrutiny but why would you or anyone else just "believe" PBS in this instance? Why? Tavis is denying that this stuff happened. There are 2 sides at issue here.

If a woman all of a sudden came out and said that I raped her, then based on today's hysteria, I raped her. That's crazy.

"[D]oing a bad job" can include behaving in a way that your employers or business partners find professionally unacceptable. I'm honestly not sure why you seem wedded to the idea that personal conduct is wholly distinct from professionalism, even if the conduct is happening at work or with co-workers. That kind of fiction doesn't make any sense.

I don't "just 'believe' PBS in this instance." PBS did not conduct the investigation; it hired an outside firm to do that work specifically to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest. Surely you're not suggesting that PBS was looking to get rid of Mr. Smiley, and therefore manufactured a crisis to get rid of him. I'm sure they hoped the investigation would come up empty and show no conflict of interest; that would have spared everyone a lot of pain.

It's not one woman. It's multiple former employees, and their stories painted a particularly troubling picture. It's not the same picture Smiley paints, and that's important. He deserves to know the charges being leveled against him and to speak in his defense. As I understand it, he has been given that opportunity, despite not being told who made precisely what claims. Put simply, his version of events has been found not to be credible by an independent party. He can disagree with their conclusions, and he can contest their claims, but he can't say they didn't hear him out.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 19, 2017 03:28PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrbigstuff
V, it's about being the most pure you can be, ascending to the top of the moral heap, better than your neighbors.


I think that's a strange thing to say.

An organization gets to decide what type of workplace culture they want. PBS doesn't want employees feeling like they need to trade sex for career opportunities.

Seems reasonable, doesn't seem like a battle to be morally superior just for the sake of it.

Oh, no, that is exactly what this is all about. Just got to dig a little deeper


Really? Please share with us the results of your digging.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 07:15PM
First of all he doesn't work for PBS. They distribute his show. He isn't their employee.

Secondly, all PBS is saying is that since he admits to having sex with multiple employees, that is proof positive that he's guilty of what these women allege which they don't even detail. So you guys just takes PBS's word as bond when you don't even know what happened?

Women lie just like men.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 07:17PM by vision63.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: December 19, 2017 07:16PM
Quote
vision63
This is the same kind of thing. Minnie Driver yelling at Matt Damon when he was 100 percent correct like his voice doesn't matter.

His voice matters. That's why his patronizing and ignorant white-privilege "mansplaining" strawman statements are so awful.

He plays an "everyman" in most of his movies. His opinions shape the opinions of men around the world. And he was grossly irresponsible. Repeatedly. The guy doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut when he doesn't know WTF he's talking about. He just goes on and on and on digging himself deeper.

It's shameful. "As the father of daughters" he ought to know better. He is the opposite of "woke." He thinks that the goal is to distinguish good men from bad and that he deserves some sort of reward for not being the particularly rapey sort of creep.

She was absolutely right to slap him down.

Perfect summary:
[twitter.com]







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 07:18PM by Onamuji.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 07:18PM
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
vision63
This is the same kind of thing. Minnie Driver yelling at Matt Damon when he was 100 percent correct like his voice doesn't matter.

His voice matters. That's why his patronizing and ignorant white-privilege "mansplaining" strawman statements are so awful.

He plays an "everyman" in most of his movies. His opinions shape the opinions of men around the world. And he was grossly irresponsible. Repeatedly. The guy doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut when he doesn't know WTF he's talking about. He just goes on and on and on digging himself deeper.

It's shameful. "As the father of daughters" he ought to know better. He is the opposite of "woke." He thinks that the goal is to distinguish good men from bad and that he deserves some sort of reward for not being the particularly rapey sort of creep.

She was absolutely right to slap him down.

Bull. It's a free country. He didn't do anything to her.

Oh excuse me, except for give her a career in the first place. I forgot about that

And Further, you speak as if he advocated sweeping all allegations under the rug. Like he's cool with women being harrassed and abused. It's not cool. But this righteous got everyone jumping off cliffs just take my word it happened junk ain't cool either.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 07:26PM by vision63.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 07:27PM
Plus I don't need to read a story about somebody justifying it either. Don't be sheep.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: JoeH
Date: December 19, 2017 07:43PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
vision63
This is the same kind of thing. Minnie Driver yelling at Matt Damon when he was 100 percent correct like his voice doesn't matter.

His voice matters. That's why his patronizing and ignorant white-privilege "mansplaining" strawman statements are so awful.

He plays an "everyman" in most of his movies. His opinions shape the opinions of men around the world. And he was grossly irresponsible. Repeatedly. The guy doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut when he doesn't know WTF he's talking about. He just goes on and on and on digging himself deeper.

It's shameful. "As the father of daughters" he ought to know better. He is the opposite of "woke." He thinks that the goal is to distinguish good men from bad and that he deserves some sort of reward for not being the particularly rapey sort of creep.

She was absolutely right to slap him down.

Bull. It's a free country. He didn't do anything to her.

Oh excuse me, except for give her a career in the first place. I forgot about that

She had a career before Matt Damon, and has done much work since without him. Quite disingenuous of you to attribute her career to him.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: December 19, 2017 07:51PM
Quote
vision63
Bull. It's a free country. He didn't do anything to her.

The thing that he (and you) don't seem to get is that it's not all about him. (Or you.)

Apparently, you want kudos to both of you for not raping women and you want bonus points for not robbing gas stations and convenience stores.

Congrats. Merry Xmas and good egos to you both.

Can we get on with stuff that matters, like overturning the patriarchy to promote a level playing field for all in workplaces free of harassment now, or are you going to insist that we stop everything else to praise you for not drowning kittens, not detonating nuclear bombs over populated areas, and not causing the sun to go supernova?







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 07:52PM by Onamuji.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 08:06PM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
vision63
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
vision63
This is the same kind of thing. Minnie Driver yelling at Matt Damon when he was 100 percent correct like his voice doesn't matter.

His voice matters. That's why his patronizing and ignorant white-privilege "mansplaining" strawman statements are so awful.

He plays an "everyman" in most of his movies. His opinions shape the opinions of men around the world. And he was grossly irresponsible. Repeatedly. The guy doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut when he doesn't know WTF he's talking about. He just goes on and on and on digging himself deeper.

It's shameful. "As the father of daughters" he ought to know better. He is the opposite of "woke." He thinks that the goal is to distinguish good men from bad and that he deserves some sort of reward for not being the particularly rapey sort of creep.

She was absolutely right to slap him down.

Bull. It's a free country. He didn't do anything to her.

Oh excuse me, except for give her a career in the first place. I forgot about that

She had a career before Matt Damon, and has done much work since without him. Quite disingenuous of you to attribute her career to him.

In the same way that it would be disingenuous to think that Samuel Jackson would have the same career had he not exploded in Pulp Fiction. Despite his lengthy career prior. I'm NEVER not genuine.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 08:08PM
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
vision63
Bull. It's a free country. He didn't do anything to her.

The thing that he (and you) don't seem to get is that it's not all about him. (Or you.)

Apparently, you want kudos to both of you for not raping women and you want bonus points for not robbing gas stations and convenience stores.

Congrats. Merry Xmas and good egos to you both.

Can we get on with stuff that matters, like overturning the patriarchy to promote a level playing field for all in workplaces free of harassment now, or are you going to insist that we stop everything else to praise you for not drowning kittens, not detonating nuclear bombs over populated areas, and not causing the sun to go supernova?

It's about establishing policies that will fairly establish justice. You're advocating for mob rule at the moment.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: December 19, 2017 08:32PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
vision63
Bull. It's a free country. He didn't do anything to her.

The thing that he (and you) don't seem to get is that it's not all about him. (Or you.)

Apparently, you want kudos to both of you for not raping women and you want bonus points for not robbing gas stations and convenience stores.

Congrats. Merry Xmas and good egos to you both.

Can we get on with stuff that matters, like overturning the patriarchy to promote a level playing field for all in workplaces free of harassment now, or are you going to insist that we stop everything else to praise you for not drowning kittens, not detonating nuclear bombs over populated areas, and not causing the sun to go supernova?

It's about establishing policies that will fairly establish justice. You're advocating for mob rule at the moment.

"Mob rule" is a very weird spin on promoting civil liberties and fairness in the workplace.



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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 08:38PM
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
vision63
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
vision63
Bull. It's a free country. He didn't do anything to her.

The thing that he (and you) don't seem to get is that it's not all about him. (Or you.)

Apparently, you want kudos to both of you for not raping women and you want bonus points for not robbing gas stations and convenience stores.

Congrats. Merry Xmas and good egos to you both.

Can we get on with stuff that matters, like overturning the patriarchy to promote a level playing field for all in workplaces free of harassment now, or are you going to insist that we stop everything else to praise you for not drowning kittens, not detonating nuclear bombs over populated areas, and not causing the sun to go supernova?

It's about establishing policies that will fairly establish justice. You're advocating for mob rule at the moment.

"Mob rule" is a very weird spin on promoting civil liberties and fairness in the workplace.

Herding is another word. Here's why this is even a thing.

Roger Stone and Trump knew that they needed to get rid of Franken as he is a key member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. If Mueller gets fired they'll need to jump into action within 24 hours in order to stop it. We're chasing the crooks but they throw a trash can in our path in order to make their escape. They knew it would work.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: December 19, 2017 08:43PM
Franken made his own decision to resign.

Yes, he was asked to do so by members of his party, but it was his decision.

He's a competent adult.



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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 08:47PM
Quote
Onamuji
Franken made his own decision to resign.

Yes, he was asked to do so by members of his party, but it was his decision.

He's a competent adult.

He was forced out. FORCED out. He just maintained some dignity. He was betrayed by his party.

Also keep on remembering. Republicans engineered this. This is why they run every conceivable thing. This kind of weakness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 08:48PM by vision63.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: December 19, 2017 09:09PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
Onamuji
Franken made his own decision to resign.

Yes, he was asked to do so by members of his party, but it was his decision.

He's a competent adult.

He was forced out. FORCED out. He just maintained some dignity. He was betrayed by his party.

Also keep on remembering. Republicans engineered this. This is why they run every conceivable thing. This kind of weakness.

Seems kind of a nihilist point of view.



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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 19, 2017 10:15PM
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
vision63
Quote
Onamuji
Franken made his own decision to resign.

Yes, he was asked to do so by members of his party, but it was his decision.

He's a competent adult.

He was forced out. FORCED out. He just maintained some dignity. He was betrayed by his party.

Also keep on remembering. Republicans engineered this. This is why they run every conceivable thing. This kind of weakness.

Seems kind of a nihilist point of view.

This happened. We know it happened. In the meantime, they're robbing America and stuffing the cash into their pockets. This is just the beginning.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: $tevie
Date: December 19, 2017 11:19PM
I think Franken was railroaded and for exactly the reason that he is on the Senate Judiciary Committee, not to mention he flattened Sessions during the hearing.

But Tavis Smiley may be a good example of when a man is so ensconced in male dominance that he honestly has no idea that he is practicing it. Like someone who thinks they aren't bigots because they have a "Jew lawyer". This isn't to defend him, it's to point out the bigger picture.

I do think it would be wise to move a little slower upon these accusations. I have no desire to win my Bleeding Heart by destroying lives of people who may have been innocent and/or ignorant. We need to use some wisdom and not just emotion.







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 11:23PM by $tevie.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 20, 2017 09:41AM
So sick of all the apologias.

If we want to talk about the political consequences of one party having a conscience on women's rights and the other lacking one, let's do that. But please for Christ-on-a-cracker's sake don't tell me that defending sexist behavior at work is somehow about having a conscience but then ignoring it for the greater good. That's loony tunes logic.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: $tevie
Date: December 20, 2017 01:35PM
Not what I said. Don't put words in my mouth.



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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 20, 2017 02:47PM
Quote
rjmacs
So sick of all the apologias.

If we want to talk about the political consequences of one party having a conscience on women's rights and the other lacking one, let's do that. But please for Christ-on-a-cracker's sake don't tell me that defending sexist behavior at work is somehow about having a conscience but then ignoring it for the greater good. That's loony tunes logic.

Who is defending that? Who????? Who? Who likes sexual harassment? Who is cool with that? Nobody.

So when you make this kind of statement why don't you focus on what the issue and objective is. To hell with your outrage. That doesn't give you or anyone else the right to skip all aspects of DUE PROCESS and sensible processes and procedures.

Everything Tavis and all these other men have wrought on these women is in the PAST.

SO, the objective moving forward SHOULD be how can we as a people develop transparent and safe environments for women etc., conducive to them sharing their truth and reality without consequence.

In the meantime, this is the meat the Republicans tossed out there to throw off the dogs.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: $tevie
Date: December 20, 2017 06:07PM
I'm truly concerned that this is going to end up going nowhere. It's too much of a fad and too media-driven to result in anything but a bunch of lawsuits and some bitter old men who can't wait to start being turds again as soon as the fuss dies down. Which it will. And nothing will have changed.



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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 20, 2017 06:21PM
Quote
$tevie
I'm truly concerned that this is going to end up going nowhere. It's too much of a fad and too media-driven to result in anything but a bunch of lawsuits and some bitter old men who can't wait to start being turds again as soon as the fuss dies down. Which it will. And nothing will have changed.

It may have jumped the shark with Rose McGowan dressing down Meryl Streep's wearing of black as a silent protest at the Golden Globes.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: December 20, 2017 09:34PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
$tevie
I'm truly concerned that this is going to end up going nowhere. It's too much of a fad and too media-driven to result in anything but a bunch of lawsuits and some bitter old men who can't wait to start being turds again as soon as the fuss dies down. Which it will. And nothing will have changed.

It may have jumped the shark with Rose McGowan dressing down Meryl Streep's wearing of black as a silent protest at the Golden Globes.

Up until that point, Streep's most repeated/republished public statements had been in support of Weinstein, which seemed kind of insane.

After Rose McGowan's Twitter-rant and the ensuing storm, Streep was compelled to publish a statement on the matter where she confessed to having been sheltered from Weinstein's historic abuses.

"It hurt to be attacked by Rose McGowan in banner headlines this weekend, but I want to let her know I did not know about Weinstein's crimes, not in the 90s when he attacked her, or through subsequent decades when he proceeded to attack others... I wasn't deliberately silent. I didn't know."

It's easy to believe that to be truth. Streep is sort of a trophy in Hollywood. Of course she's sheltered. But maybe now she's becoming aware that comfortable ignorance is not too far off from complicity.

It may have been a raw and ill-considered rant, but it seems that giving McGowan a chance to speak up after years of being silenced and sabotaged by the Weinstein blacklist machine is overall a positive thing.

Personally, after having my opinion of McGowan shaped by years of seeing her portrayed in the trades, on TV entertainment news shows and on the covers of gossip mags as crazy and difficult to work with, I'm trying to keep an open mind about her now. Much of it appears to stem from a malicious campaign to silence her.

I don't know that I can comprehend the depth of pain she must have experienced after first being raped and then being suppressed in such a manner.

Let the woman have a voice. Give her a chance. Let's see where it leads.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2017 09:38PM by Onamuji.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: August West
Date: December 20, 2017 11:19PM
Quote

Oh excuse me, except for give her a career in the first place. I forgot about that

I think it is safe to say that, beyond other liabilities, film criticism is not one of your finer attributes.



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 20, 2017 11:42PM
Quote
August West
Quote

Oh excuse me, except for give her a career in the first place. I forgot about that

I think it is safe to say that, beyond other liabilities, film criticism is not one of your finer attributes.

Actually I write cinema, television and music criticism. I've worked in films and television my whole adult life since high school.

I'm a fan of hers. I know her career very well. Nothing wrong with what I said being the truth which is simply not deniable. If it were, you would have presented your evidence of that not being true. At one point she was an ingenue, then moved into the character realm. She's also a singer. Like many aging actresses, there aren't many roles out there for her in Hollywood. Television is working well for her now. I consider it a successful career. Good Will Hunting allowed her to up her rate and bank some loot. Grosse Point Blank solidified it.

Nothing I said was wrong or inappropriate. This climate makes it seem like I am.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: August West
Date: December 21, 2017 12:12AM
I find it very hard to believe you are a competent critic or worker in film and television when you don't understand the collaborative nature of the medium.



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 21, 2017 01:49AM
Quote
August West
I find it very hard to believe you are a competent critic or worker in film and television when you don't understand the collaborative nature of the medium.

It doesn't matter what you think.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: December 21, 2017 06:38AM
OT: It was my understanding that Circle of Friends was Driver’s breakout film.
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Re: PBS hits back at Tavis Smiley, promises to protect witnesses
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 21, 2017 07:18AM
Quote
vision63
Nothing I said was wrong or inappropriate. This climate makes it seem like I am.

I'm hearing a lot of this lately.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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