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Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 12, 2018 06:21PM
Say what?

[www.nbcnews.com]
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: February 12, 2018 06:25PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Say what?

[www.nbcnews.com]

Well, Louisiana is the only state to follow the Napoleonic code... So, I don't think it's that far off from the truth. Maybe an uncomfortable truth.

It certainly helps to explain the shoddy state of civil rights in this country if you think of it as a feudal system.



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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Z
Date: February 12, 2018 06:46PM
Did they mean this?

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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: hal
Date: February 12, 2018 07:08PM
“As most law students learn in the first week of their first year, Anglo-American law — also known as the common law — is a shared legal heritage between England and America. The sheriff is unique to that shared legal heritage," Ian Prior, a spokesman for the department, said in a statement. "Before reporters sloppily imply nefarious meaning behind the term, we would suggest that they read any number of the Supreme Court opinions that use the term. Or they could simply put ‘Anglo-American law’ into Google.”

it's not a big deal
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 12, 2018 07:21PM
Quote
hal
“As most law students learn in the first week of their first year, Anglo-American law — also known as the common law — is a shared legal heritage between England and America. The sheriff is unique to that shared legal heritage," Ian Prior, a spokesman for the department, said in a statement. "Before reporters sloppily imply nefarious meaning behind the term, we would suggest that they read any number of the Supreme Court opinions that use the term. Or they could simply put ‘Anglo-American law’ into Google.”

it's not a big deal

Well thanks for the tabloid input hal.

This term is not in use in the legal profession, and for good reason.

First of all, common law developed in the centuries after 1066, IOW, there were NO "Anglo-Americans" then. Also, Anglo-Saxon law (also something nobody says) existed prior to the development of common law and is not a system in use today (it had Scandinavian roots.)

Anglo-American means a white person with roots in Britain. It's a heavily racial term that has nothing to do with legal systems.

SO - You need a white supremacist in charge to come out with things like this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2018 07:32PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Acer
Date: February 12, 2018 10:37PM
I googled it and it looks pretty common in the legal profession to me, at least lots of law schools at universities are using the term without irony.
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 12, 2018 11:39PM
Quote
Acer
I googled it and it looks pretty common in the legal profession to me, at least lots of law schools at universities are using the term without irony.

Yeah OK now somebody found Obama saying it, but the context was clear that he meant common law.

Sessions was referring specifically to the elected sheriff system in the US, a system that does date to Anglo Saxon times but was abandoned by England and kept by the US without much change for the past 200 years. To refer to that as "Anglo American" when he's talking about ridding the country of brown-skinned immigrants (which is what he was talking to the sheriffs about) seems to me to be very racially charged. I can understand why the Dept of Justice didn't include that in the printed speech, Sessions seems to have ad libbed that part.
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 13, 2018 06:42AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Acer
I googled it and it looks pretty common in the legal profession to me, at least lots of law schools at universities are using the term without irony.

Yeah OK now somebody found Obama saying it, but the context was clear that he meant common law.

Sessions was referring specifically to the elected sheriff system in the US, a system that does date to Anglo Saxon times but was abandoned by England and kept by the US without much change for the past 200 years. To refer to that as "Anglo American" when he's talking about ridding the country of brown-skinned immigrants (which is what he was talking to the sheriffs about) seems to me to be very racially charged. I can understand why the Dept of Justice didn't include that in the printed speech, Sessions seems to have ad libbed that part.

agree smiley

This is racist dogwhistling. This administration MUST keep its venomous and virulent 35% activated and foaming at the mouth at all times in order to stay afloat. Hence the constant messages bolstering white supremacy.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: hal
Date: February 13, 2018 06:21PM
You really think the 35% were paying any attention to what happens at the National Sheriffs' Association meeting? And it seems to me that Lemon is arguing with a dictionary.
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 14, 2018 07:14AM
Quote
hal
You really think the 35% were paying any attention to what happens at the National Sheriffs' Association meeting? And it seems to me that Lemon is arguing with a dictionary.

Holy crap - can't you see that what he said at the meeting didn't stay in the meeting?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 14, 2018 10:09AM
Stephen Crockett writing at The Root said it much better than I can:

If Attorney General Jeff Sessions is not a white supremacist, he sure plays one well. In fact, he can’t even do anything without invoking his white heritage all up in the videos and all on the record, dancing (Suge Knight voice).

All Sessions had to do was give a speech to sheriffs on Monday in Washington, D.C., maybe say that they’re doing a fine job (they aren’t), and then thank them for the work they aren’t doing a fine job of and bounce off the stage.

But what does Jeff “King Keebler” Sessions do? You guessed it. He goes off script and shouts out the historical whiteness of the sheriff’s position and notes how we can’t forget that most amazing point.

“I want to thank every sheriff in America. Since our founding, the independently elected sheriff has been the people’s protector, who keeps law enforcement close to and accountable to people through the elected process,” Sessions said in remarks at the National Sheriffs’ Association winter meeting, adding, “The office of sheriff is a critical part of the Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement,” CNN reports.

“We must never erode this historic office,” Sessions continued.

A written version of Sessions’ speech notes that he was supposed to say, “The sheriff is a critical part of our legal heritage,” but once Sessions hit the stage and was feeling himself, he decided to ad-lib the part about “Anglo-American heritage” because .... well, racism.

A previous report by the Washington Post, which refers to the history of the sheriff’s office and the etymological origins of the term, might suggest to some that Sessions was alluding to the fact that “sheriff” combines the Anglo-Saxon words for “shire”—meaning “county”—and “reeve,” meaning “guardian.”

To this I say, nah, @#$%&. Sessions is a well-documented white supremacist who was so hot for incendiary racist behavior that Coretta Scott King once argued successfully for him not to become a federal judge.

In short, Sessions meant that @#$%& exactly the way it sounded.


[www.theroot.com]
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 14, 2018 10:14AM
Also - the sheriff's office (dominated by white men in the US and a few nonwhite nutcases like Dave Clarke) has a long history of abusing the rights of non-white people. (aka Anglo-Americans) and that law enforcement abuse is a hot topic in American society right now. Think Joe Arpaio, pardoned by Trump for his civil rights abuses against brown skinned people.
Part of white supremacist strategy is to reinforce the power of the sheriff, wanting that person to go and arrest elected officials and judges who do something they find politically objectionable.

If there's one person who doesn't need to be celebrating the "whiteness" of American law enforcement, it's Jeff Sessions.
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: February 14, 2018 10:18AM
That Root piece first decides on its conclusion and argues backwards to reach it.

Anybody who's been to law school doesn't even blink at the phrase Anglo-American jurisprudence or similar constructions. It means nothing more than our inherited base of common law and institutions, and appears frequently in legal writings. You won't find me defending Jeff Sessions on many things, but anyone with the tiniest bit of historic legal knowledge wouldn't have thought twice about dropping in the phrase as they spoke. This is a totally ginned-up outrage of the kind usually seen, leaning the other way, on Fox & Friends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 10:19AM by Mr Downtown.
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 14, 2018 10:39AM
Quote
Mr Downtown
That Root piece first decides on its conclusion and argues backwards to reach it.

Anybody who's been to law school doesn't even blink at the phrase Anglo-American jurisprudence or similar constructions. It means nothing more than our inherited base of common law and institutions, and appears frequently in legal writings. You won't find me defending Jeff Sessions on many things, but anyone with the tiniest bit of historic legal knowledge wouldn't have thought twice about dropping in the phrase as they spoke. This is a totally ginned-up outrage of the kind usually seen, leaning the other way, on Fox & Friends.

So, you're saying Jeff Sessions isn't racist?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 14, 2018 11:48AM
Quote
Mr Downtown
That Root piece first decides on its conclusion and argues backwards to reach it.

Anybody who's been to law school doesn't even blink at the phrase Anglo-American jurisprudence or similar constructions. It means nothing more than our inherited base of common law and institutions, and appears frequently in legal writings. You won't find me defending Jeff Sessions on many things, but anyone with the tiniest bit of historic legal knowledge wouldn't have thought twice about dropping in the phrase as they spoke. This is a totally ginned-up outrage of the kind usually seen, leaning the other way, on Fox & Friends.

If you have an example of somebody using "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement" in the same context as Jeff Sessions used it, please provide that because I haven't seen one single example.

And I have to disagree strongly with your opinion that "anyone" would drop in this phrase - thoughtful speakers with a public role like Sessions would understand how inserting "Anglo-American" would be interpreted, and would not use it in this context. Why do we even need to have a conversation about "preserving" sheriffs? Are they under attack? Well yeah, in the imagination of white supremacists....

We didn't need this comment from Sessions to know he's a white supremacist, that was established decades ago. It's certainly a strong reinforcement of his views though.
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: February 14, 2018 12:37PM
Quote
Mr Downtown
That Root piece first decides on its conclusion and argues backwards to reach it.

Anybody who's been to law school doesn't even blink at the phrase Anglo-American jurisprudence or similar constructions. It means nothing more than our inherited base of common law and institutions, and appears frequently in legal writings. You won't find me defending Jeff Sessions on many things, but anyone with the tiniest bit of historic legal knowledge wouldn't have thought twice about dropping in the phrase as they spoke. This is a totally ginned-up outrage of the kind usually seen, leaning the other way, on Fox & Friends.

If not Sessions himself, somebody in his office should have been savvy enough to tell him not to use that phrase before he spoke, knowing that it would be reported.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2018 12:38PM by DeusxMac.
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 14, 2018 03:26PM
This article, and the quotes from the black sheriff and the law professor, capture the episode pretty well I think. The words were poorly chosen, in context. Nobody is trying to say that the sheriff system didn't come from England, that isn't the point.

[www.tampabay.com]
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: February 14, 2018 10:29PM
I wouldn't have hesitated to include the phrase as a little riff as I was giving the prepared remarks, simply because it's so common in talking about the history of jurisprudence. It never would have occurred to me that Anglo-American would be taken as some new code word for "only white people." In the context of Latino politics, you sometimes hear whites referred to as Anglos, but I've never ever heard it in a black-white racial context. No one talks about Anglo supremacists, or an Anglo Lives Matter movement. Has the phrase ever been used as a dog-whistle before, such that staffers would even have a discussion about use of the phrase?
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 15, 2018 10:02AM
Quote
Mr Downtown
I wouldn't have hesitated to include the phrase as a little riff as I was giving the prepared remarks, simply because it's so common in talking about the history of jurisprudence. It never would have occurred to me that Anglo-American would be taken as some new code word for "only white people." In the context of Latino politics, you sometimes hear whites referred to as Anglos, but I've never ever heard it in a black-white racial context. No one talks about Anglo supremacists, or an Anglo Lives Matter movement. Has the phrase ever been used as a dog-whistle before, such that staffers would even have a discussion about use of the phrase?

So, you're saying Jeff Sessions isn't racist?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: February 15, 2018 11:02AM
I'm simply saying his use of this phrase in this context is not evidence one way or the other.

I keep thinking of the DC bureaucrat fired for using the perfectly innocent word niggardly. It says more about the ignorance of those who are complaining than the one who said the words.
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 15, 2018 11:13AM
Quote
Mr Downtown
I'm simply saying his use of this phrase in this context is not evidence one way or the other.

I keep thinking of the DC bureaucrat fired for using the perfectly innocent word niggardly. It says more about the ignorance of those who are complaining than the one who said the words.

Okay.

Well, I think what some of us are "simply saying" is that Jeff Sessions is a known and apparently shameless racist, and that racists often use terms like "Anglo" in ways that telegraph an identification with White culture in a way that transcends strict contextual meaning.

The people will decide for themselves.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: February 15, 2018 03:03PM
Quote
rjmacs
racists often use terms like "Anglo" in ways that telegraph an identification with White culture

Got any examples of that? With the specific words Anglo-American?

I know they use white that way; I know they speak of European culture in that way. But I've never heard of using Anglo-American that way.
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Re: Our "Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 15, 2018 03:15PM
Quote
Mr Downtown
Quote
rjmacs
racists often use terms like "Anglo" in ways that telegraph an identification with White culture

Got any examples of that? With the specific words Anglo-American?

I know they use white that way; I know they speak of European culture in that way. But I've never heard of using Anglo-American that way.

If you are actually unaware of how the word "Anglo" gets deployed in the borderlands and other places where xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiments run deep, I'd be surprised and concerned.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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