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Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: April 16, 2018 10:31AM
In the last few years, as I've been driving on highways more than usual between 3-4 States.. I've thought quite a bit about the Asphalt Industry..watching these newly laid roads start to go bad very quickly and all..And also reading about folks trying to come with alternate materials for road building..recycled plastics etc..

This is a material that, from what i can tell, is not regulated in any substantial way by OSHA..The fumes are pretty toxic and i would imagine that contact would also be toxic in some way..There are more than a half a million people in this trade..probably more than that, IMO..think about it

We use this material everywhere..clearly there is huge money here, they seem to have lobbyists..of course they do..It's interesting how little info there is on the web about the ins and outs of this biz..it comes off as being sort of clean, not much controversy, no mention of the mob, deals, payoffs..capaign contributions...on and on..makes me wonder..that or I'm really bad in my searches

It's a petroleum product made using the thick remains of the distillation process..Bitumen, I believe..tar..

Is this biz subsidized in any way like the Coal industry? Obviously there are huge Government contracts with this stuff..there's gotta be plenty of dirt around this deal..?

Is there a racket here?..the stuff is everywhere and, IMO, is a crappy material for roads..It goes down and most of the time it's starting to fail inside of a year in the Northern climates..especially on multilane roads where there are 3 or more seams..

what gives? Anyone have any insight here..something about the lack of info makes this feel sorta 'dark' to me..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2018 10:36AM by Kraniac.
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Re: Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: bfd
Date: April 16, 2018 10:52AM
When California bans it, you'll know it was bad stuff - or the industry ran out of money to spread around…

[theasphaltpro.com]

[www.calapa.net]

Last January, the California Carcinogen Identification Committee (CIC) decided that the prioritization for potential Prop 65 listing of asphalt and asphalt emissions associated with road paving was low, meaning - well following the money will probably answer that.
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Re: Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: April 16, 2018 11:20AM
These days most of the road material used is recycled asphalt ground from the surface of previously paved roads. If they process it right, the resulting new asphalt paving should be as good or better than the original material. But often too little new liquid asphalt is added or too much sand and other contaminants are included in the recycled paving. In that case the paving won't last as well.

Another practice that is changing how the new paving lasts is the movement to using so-called warm mix asphalt paving. Emulsifiers, waxes, water and/or other materials are added to allow the material to be worked at a lower temperature, but it may not compact as well and adhere to the underlying material as well. It does allow paving in cooler conditions, so extends the season for roadwork. The best asphalt paving is done with hot mix asphalt, done on a warm summer day so the surface of the road it is going on is heated up, and takes a few hours for the mix to cool enough for vehicles to travel over it. But warm mix is taking over because of the extended repaving season allowed and secondarily because it uses less fossil fuels in the production.

As for the source of the asphalt (British English bitumen), it comes from the residue of distilling some heavy grades of crude oil. It is not from coal or subsidized by the coal industry.
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Re: Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: April 16, 2018 11:29AM
.....only the.....'Asphalt......Jungle'.........



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: April 16, 2018 12:31PM
Just don't use gravel with an oil spray....
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Re: Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: samintx
Date: April 16, 2018 01:55PM
I worked in sales at Sackreet years ago. All I knew was the price of products.
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Re: Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: April 16, 2018 02:01PM
I worked in an asphalt plant (creating blends to mix with rock from oil sources) for a couple of years, but that was almost 30 years ago.

The construction business side dealing with local and state governments is quite a bit different.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: Pam
Date: April 16, 2018 04:17PM
I think the asphalt sealers are even worse than the asphalt.
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Re: Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: April 16, 2018 10:56PM
They do it (building roads) right in much of Europe, we don't.

I have hauled hot mix, worked in a hot mix plant, hauled millings, worked on a hot mix paving crew, etc. BTW, asphalt millings run twice the money to buy as bituminous aggregate. Of course, you have to add asphalt to the bituminous aggregate which evens out the cost a bit. Joe H. has it right.

To build a road to last, build it like they build high speed rail. Many feet of crushed, clean rock for a base, install ties (made from rails) and rails on that. For a road, place the rails at just the right width for a truck (between 96" and 102" apart), then pour a couple of feet of concrete over the whole thing. Put down a two inch wear course of asphalt. Remove and replace the asphalt as needed; the base, rails and concrete will last for a lifetime. You'll still get potholes and have to patch them but you won't get that pounding created by heavy trucks. When the potholes get potholes, R&R the asphalt.

Minneapolis puts down an aggregate base (Class 5), then a foot of concrete and an asphalt overlay. They R&R the asphalt as needed. The city's roads last as long as the sewer and water lines underneath them. Spendy at first but much cheaper over the long run.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: April 16, 2018 11:03PM
There's really no excuse for the highways, but in most urban areas the surface asphalt is just something to cut up to get to utilities below.



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Re: Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: April 16, 2018 11:10PM
Quote
Speedy
They do it (building roads) right in much of Europe, we don't.

I have hauled hot mix, worked in a hot mix plant, hauled millings, worked on a hot mix paving crew, etc. BTW, asphalt millings run twice the money to buy as bituminous aggregate. Of course, you have to add asphalt to the bituminous aggregate which evens out the cost a bit. Joe H. has it right.

To build a road to last, build it like they build high speed rail. Many feet of crushed, clean rock for a base, install ties (made from rails) and rails on that. For a road, place the rails at just the right width for a truck (between 96" and 102" apart), then pour a couple of feet of concrete over the whole thing. Put down a two inch wear course of asphalt. Remove and replace the asphalt as needed; the base, rails and concrete will last for a lifetime. You'll still get potholes and have to patch them but you won't get that pounding created by heavy trucks. When the potholes get potholes, R&R the asphalt.

Minneapolis puts down an aggregate base (Class 5), then a foot of concrete and an asphalt overlay. They R&R the asphalt as needed. The city's roads last as long as the sewer and water lines underneath them. Spendy at first but much cheaper over the long run.

Amazingly cool post..thank you, Speedy

This is exactly the stuff I think about while I'm driving Speedy..road building, bridges, drainage, lane markings..matter fact..today I was running, pretty much, the plan you just laid out through my head coming down i94..minus the rails,,..but was thinking about a system where the asphalt is given a proper base ..which the asphalt also ends up protecting..then becomes about stripping and replacing...the roads in SW much, she ei am now, are horrifying..pretty crazy..hitting sharp edged potholes at 75 is no picnic and there plenty of them..
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Re: Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: April 16, 2018 11:18PM
Quote
JoeH
These days most of the road material used is recycled asphalt ground from the surface of previously paved roads. If they process it right, the resulting new asphalt paving should be as good or better than the original material. But often too little new liquid asphalt is added or too much sand and other contaminants are included in the recycled paving. In that case the paving won't last as well.

Another practice that is changing how the new paving lasts is the movement to using so-called warm mix asphalt paving. Emulsifiers, waxes, water and/or other materials are added to allow the material to be worked at a lower temperature, but it may not compact as well and adhere to the underlying material as well. It does allow paving in cooler conditions, so extends the season for roadwork. The best asphalt paving is done with hot mix asphalt, done on a warm summer day so the surface of the road it is going on is heated up, and takes a few hours for the mix to cool enough for vehicles to travel over it. But warm mix is taking over because of the extended repaving season allowed and secondarily because it uses less fossil fuels in the production.

As for the source of the asphalt (British English bitumen), it comes from the residue of distilling some heavy grades of crude oil. It is not from coal or subsidized by the coal industry.


Another great post, thanks man...Really interesting and I witnessed this last year..tons of construction going on on i94 on a stretch in NW Indiana..stripping out old road..some new bedding etc..The Asphalt was finally applied in very cool weather into October-Nov....had my brain really wondering how healthy it was to install asphalt in cool air..i know from a lot of other stuff I do that 'open time' is important and certainly for tamping and rolling asphalt..heat..important..my brain knew that this stuff was cooling quickly..I DID notice that during this phase they had literal armies of very large steamrollers..many more than i had remembered on other jobs I've seen over the course of my life as a construction site neckbender.
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Re: Anyone know anything about the Asphalt industry?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: April 16, 2018 11:26PM
When done right, the asphalt overlay is all that needs replacing. In Minneapolis (and anywhere else this is done), they spray the new concrete with sealant (of course, all concrete is always sealed) and then seal that with a nice spray of asphalt which also allows the overlay to adhere to the concrete. This keeps water out - mostly. The overlay also, of course, keeps out water. The freeze/thaw cycle is a killer so the main idea is to keep the water out of the concrete for as long as possible. In Minneapolis, roads with heavy truck traffic are still bad thanks to the inadequate aggregate base.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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