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How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 24, 2018 02:50PM
The Republican Party is mounting massive attacks on Mueller's investigation. They are blowing up norms like they don't matter. But is any of it effecting Mueller? If it is effecting him, how much is it doing so?

I get the feeling Mueller is going to keep working ahead in a manner consistent with the law to fulfill the mandate he was given when he accepted becoming the special counsel. He's going to keep towing the line of long accepted practices in finding out what the hell the Russians were up to and whether or not there is evidence of illegal coordinated activity with American citizens - including people in Trump's campaign and administration. And even though he has probably largely pulled together what he needs to know to assess any evidence or lack of evidence of obstruction of justice, he probably is plowing ahead on some avenues of that as well.

I suspect Mueller isn't changing his strategy, but Trump's supporters probably have been able to clip off some investigations; e.g., the Ukrainians cutting off cooperation with Mueller so as to curry favor with Trump (how that isn't pay for play, I don't know).

Sooner or later I think Trump is going to have to more directly intervene to stop Mueller. That is, I think that because I think there is information that would really be detrimental to Trump that Mueller may find (if he hasn't already). But in the meantime the falling of norms in efforts to protect him will continue and maybe accelerate. The Republicans have a fever of power that is feeding itself more and more on destruction of the tangible and intangible framework of the country. I hope the time is not far off that they will look back at their actions now and feel a deep, deep shame.

What do you all think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2018 02:53PM by Ted King.
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: billb
Date: May 24, 2018 03:03PM
With no evidence of collusion after 22 months he should call it quits so we can all move on.
Move on to jailing the Clintons.



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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 24, 2018 03:14PM
I personally think Mueller likely has enough to send Manafort and Cohen to jail for the rest of their lives, and plenty of dirt on Trump that we haven't heard about too. He's probably trying to choose which slimy rock is worth turning over next.

And I think it's likely to come out this summer, because Mueller probably doesn't want to get too close to the election. If he doesn't show his cards by then, it probably means he's discovered even heavier @#$%&, and then all bets are off.

Quote
Ted King
I hope the time is not far off that they will look back at their actions now and feel a deep, deep shame.

How quaint. Have you ever talked to Republicans of the Nixon era about their "shame"? These people largely live in a world of their own construction in which their guy was never guilty of anything (or only did what the other side did even more of) and whose downfall was simply due to a deeply unfair conspiracy.
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 24, 2018 03:27PM
Quote
billb
With no evidence of collusion after 22 months he should call it quits so we can all move on.
Move on to jailing the Clintons.

The investigation of the former has not concluded, but the one(s) of the latter have.

Other than those tiny facts, it’s another great comment here. Bill.
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: hal
Date: May 24, 2018 03:30PM
How hemmed in does Mueller feel? I think not a tiny bit.
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 24, 2018 03:33PM
Being that today’s conservatives largely do not trust credible media, they similarly do not trust credible politicians. So, there are none of either, and the entire notion of credibility/truth means little to them.

Ideologists and feel-good policies unrooted in rational outcomes are the constant salves. It’s like being drunk all the time. Everything and everyone is miserable, so “as soon as it’s your turn, the better” is the philosophy.
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 24, 2018 03:46PM
Quote
pdq
I personally think Mueller likely has enough to send Manafort and Cohen to jail for the rest of their lives, and plenty of dirt on Trump that we haven't heard about too. He's probably trying to choose which slimy rock is worth turning over next.

And I think it's likely to come out this summer, because Mueller probably doesn't want to get too close to the election. If he doesn't show his cards by then, it probably means he's discovered even heavier @#$%&, and then all bets are off.

Quote
Ted King
I hope the time is not far off that they will look back at their actions now and feel a deep, deep shame.

How quaint. Have you ever talked to Republicans of the Nixon era about their "shame"? These people largely live in a world of their own construction in which their guy was never guilty of anything (or only did what the other side did even more of) and whose downfall was simply due to a deeply unfair conspiracy.

That's why I said "I hope..." smiling smiley

I not only talked to a Nixon Republican, my Dad was one; "I don't know why he didn't destroy the tapes (as though that was the problem with the whole thing). He was wounded in France during WWII and I think he always sort of saw politics as a form of war without the direct bloodshed. We argued quite a lot about politics.
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: May 24, 2018 04:00PM
Mueller does NOT know the meaning of "Quit". He will dig and move until he reaches the top. Remember kids, he brought DOWN another NYC Mob Boss. So it's much the same, he's just bringing down the Trump Mob.

The next Tweet from the Donnie:
"This RICO guy is an illegal MS13 rapist ! Put him on the other side of the wall !"
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 24, 2018 04:06PM
Quote
billb
With no evidence of collusion after 22 months he should call it quits so we can all move on.
Move on to jailing the Clintons.

smiley-laughing001



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 24, 2018 04:16PM
Quote
Ted King

That's why I said "I hope..." smiling smiley

I not only talked to a Nixon Republican, my Dad was one; "I don't know why he didn't destroy the tapes (as though that was the problem with the whole thing). He was wounded in France during WWII and I think he always sort of saw politics as a form of war without the direct bloodshed. We argued quite a lot about politics.

Well, I've mentioned here before that growing up, all the adults I knew who voiced an opinion on Nixon (who were all Republicans) said things like "History will remember Nixon as one of our greatest presidents", and/or "they just caught Nixon doing what Democrats/everyone does all the time".

At the time (I was a kid), I was like, okaaaay...if you say so. Now I cringe at that kind of stuff.
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: May 24, 2018 04:37PM
Hemmed in? Would you rather be in Mueller's shoes or Trump's?
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: hal
Date: May 24, 2018 04:38PM
Quote
Dennis S
Hemmed in? Would you rather be in Mueller's shoes or Trump's?

Trump's a re probably more comfortable...
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 24, 2018 04:55PM
I'm confident that Mueller and team will soldier on despite the efforts of Trump allies to distract or derail the investigation. The latest revelation that a business associate of Michael Cohen has cut a deal with the Mueller team to talk in exchange for not going to prison or paying millions in back taxes is yet another sign that they're getting closer. Manafort and Cohen may be willing to take a bullet for their golden goose, but their less well-feathered associates will not.
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: May 24, 2018 04:59PM
I think people tend to compare Mueller to a western hero who rides in on a white horse and cleans up the town, when in fact he is merely the sheriff whose job it is to catch law breakers. I doubt he is affected by what is swirling around him because he no doubt had to learn years ago how to navigate waters filled with sharks and @#$%&.



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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: hal
Date: May 24, 2018 05:00PM
Manafort thinks he's gonna beat Mueller. I read a great article on him a few weeks back. The guy is reckless and wild and it has worked very well for him over the years. He's a guy that gets the impossible done. But he's nearly 70. When he's played his last card and sees that he can't win, he will fold, but he is gonna bluff all the way to the end.
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: May 24, 2018 06:00PM
I have nothing to back this, but I sense Manafort is most likely to partake of the polonium if he talks.
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: michaelb
Date: May 24, 2018 06:21PM
I don't know; none of us know. But I would say he is acting like he is a third of the way through more than he is close to wrapping things up. there was so much collusion and so much obvious and serious criminal behavior that involves multiple foreign countries, not just Russia, plus all sorts of financial crimes like money laundering and election fraud, it feels like he is only in round 1. It seems like there is another whole layer of lower level actors to indict that it is a long way still before he gets near the top.

I do think he is "hemmed" only or mainly by the threat/fear of a constitutional crisis that he is going to only move to charge key players like family when he is ready for the end game.
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Re: How hemmed in do you think Mueller is?
Posted by: bfd
Date: May 24, 2018 06:30PM
Quote
billb
With no evidence of collusion after 22 months he should call it quits so we can all move on.
Move on to jailing the Clintons.

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