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Moderate Dems, moderate Republicans? Dying breed?
Posted by: samintx
Date: October 07, 2018 09:10AM
Is there such a thing as a moderate on either side of the aisle? Did we just bury the last vestige of this dinosaur 3 weeks ago?

Is our politics falling into a zero sum game?

OT: SNL had a short laugh segment Cruz/BETO. Beto seems to be getting national attention. I see stuff on TV here and there bringing up this race.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2018 10:04AM by samintx.
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Re: Moderate Dems, moderate Republicans? Dying breed?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: October 07, 2018 09:50AM
Vicious circle

The incentive is to fight the other person instead of fighting for issues. Citizens begin to think fighting the person is needed for honesty and justice.
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Re: Moderate Dems, moderate Republicans? Dying breed?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: October 07, 2018 09:55AM
The reaction to morally offensive actions shouldn't be "lets sit down and try to find middle ground"



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Re: Moderate Dems, moderate Republicans? Dying breed?
Posted by: sekker
Date: October 07, 2018 10:15AM
Plenty of moderate Mayors. Potholes are annoying to both parties and need to be fixed regardless...
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Re: Moderate Dems, moderate Republicans? Dying breed?
Posted by: samintx
Date: October 07, 2018 01:00PM
Quote
mattkime
The reaction to morally offensive actions shouldn't be "lets sit down and try to find middle ground"

Not referring to the Kavanaugh incident but generally Congress now and future debates/legislation.
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Re: Moderate Dems, moderate Republicans? Dying breed?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: October 07, 2018 01:18PM
Quote
samintx
Quote
mattkime
The reaction to morally offensive actions shouldn't be "lets sit down and try to find middle ground"

Not referring to the Kavanaugh incident but generally Congress now and future debates/legislation.

To be clear, I was referencing goals such as reducing healthcare coverage and giving tax breaks to the 1%.



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Re: Moderate Dems, moderate Republicans? Dying breed?
Posted by: samintx
Date: October 07, 2018 02:30PM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
samintx
Quote
mattkime
The reaction to morally offensive actions shouldn't be "lets sit down and try to find middle ground"

Not referring to the Kavanaugh incident but generally Congress now and future debates/legislation.

To be clear, I was referencing goals such as reducing healthcare coverage and giving tax breaks to the 1%.

Sorry, digital mistook your meaning. I agree, health care and the stupid tax code breaks not right. Just didn’t connect to morally offensive acts. winking smiley as in the K/Ford controversy.
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Re: Moderate Dems, moderate Republicans? Dying breed?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: October 07, 2018 05:02PM
Quote
mattkime
The reaction to morally offensive actions shouldn't be "lets sit down and try to find middle ground"

If we very heavily populate the realm of "morally offensive actions where we shouldn't try to find middle ground", then we are going to run into problems with maintaining our pluralistic (representative) democracy. For a pluralistic democracy to function there has to be a willingness to find a middle ground on a whole lot of things and if vast swathes of things are put off limits for the finding of a middle ground, then the pluralistic democracy can't function effectively.

When you put together the growing list of things both many liberals and many conservatives (e.g., anti-abortionists) are categorizing as "no middle ground", they add up to a lot of things. I think that is putting a severe strain on our democracy. Of course, there inevitably has to be some things that people hold so dear in terms of moral offense that compromise is extremely hard, but if we value our pluralistic democracy I think we should try to save a "no compromise" attitude for only the things we hold most dear.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2018 05:06PM by Ted King.
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Re: Moderate Dems, moderate Republicans? Dying breed?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: October 07, 2018 05:41PM
Many disagreements stem from either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of goals -- yours or your opponents'. When I see most any argument neatly fit into a narrative I disagree with, I focus on the premise. If your premise is wrong, none of the conclusions mean much.

Here's a chestnut posted on a friend's FB page. I have not edited it to fix grammar or capitalization errors. It would not be fair to portray the original text as coming from someone educated:

Quote

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that liberal's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on the democrat's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.The second test average was a D! No one was happy.When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

There's a ton above that's false of course, and bad analogies do not help present a "socialist's" goals. To say nothing of a Democrat's goals, which as far as I'm aware have never been the same as a socialists ... unless you're on the far right.

#1 wrongly assumes the wealthy are tangibly hurt more than the poor would be helped. Indeed, it wrongly assumes the only logical/ultimate end is for everyone to have the same wealth.

#2 neatly sidesteps many core Judeo-Christian values conservatives say they hold dear.

#3 is wildly simplistic in its portrayal of how taxes are collected and held in a diverse society.

#4 is curious, because it means investment of any kind never works.

#5 is interesting because if true, sports teams, the military, and most professions could not exist.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2018 05:42PM by deckeda.
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Re: Moderate Dems, moderate Republicans? Dying breed?
Posted by: Rolando
Date: October 07, 2018 06:39PM
Both parties have been running right for 20 40 plus years. Dems moderate and compromise, Repugs run right and ask for more compromise. Rinse and repeat!

The Current DemocRat leadership is slightly right of Eisenhower.



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)

"Trump is a moron." -- Steve G.

"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."
-- Edmund Burke
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
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Re: Moderate Dems, moderate Republicans? Dying breed?
Posted by: Sam3
Date: October 08, 2018 06:00AM
Quote
Rolando
Both parties have been running right for 20 40 plus years. Dems moderate and compromise, Repugs run right and ask for more compromise. Rinse and repeat!

The Current DemocRat leadership is slightly right of Eisenhower.

I'd venture to say right of Nixon, Ford.
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Re: Moderate Dems, moderate Republicans? Dying breed?
Posted by: bfd
Date: October 08, 2018 11:16AM
Tip O'Neill and Teddy K are rolling over in their graves. smiley-laughing001

Liberal Democrats? In 2018?

The only thing that can make this system worse is for a third - and very conservative fascist - tea partyish – cabal to siphon votes from from the both of the traditionalists … and that's already happening.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2018 11:17AM by bfd.
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