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Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Janit
Date: October 15, 2018 07:21AM
DNA testing shows that Elizabeth Warren does have Native American ancestry, 6-10 generations back.

[elizabethwarren.com]

Quote

In 2018, Elizabeth Warren submitted a DNA sample for analysis by Dr. Carlos Bustamante, a Professor of Biomedical Data Science, Genetics, and Biology at Stanford University who is “an internationally recognized leader in the application of data science and genomics technology” and was selected as a 2010 MacArthur “Genius” Fellow.

The report concludes that there is “strong evidence” that Elizabeth’s DNA sample “contains Native American ancestry.” Specifically, Dr. Bustamante concludes with 99% confidence that Elizabeth’s DNA sample contains five genetic segments, spanning 12,300,000 DNA bases, which are “Native American in origin.”

The report also details the results of “several additional analyses to confirm the presence of Native American ancestry and to estimate the position” of an “unadmixed Native American Ancestor” (i.e., an ancestor with “100% ancestry assigned to a single population”) in Elizabeth’s family tree. It concludes that such an ancestor can be found “likely in the range of 6-10 generations ago.”


[mk0elizabethwarh5ore.kinstacdn.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2018 07:24AM by Janit.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Acer
Date: October 15, 2018 08:12AM
Judging back by my family tree, 6-10 generations is very roughly 1650s-1750s. Quite plausible if her European ancestors settled in colonial New England.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Janit
Date: October 15, 2018 09:14AM
Quote
Acer
Judging back by my family tree, 6-10 generations is very roughly 1650s-1750s. Quite plausible if her European ancestors settled in colonial New England.

It only takes ONE colonial era ancestor for this to happen. One European had a child with a Native American, that child had a child with a European, etc etc.

And if these early "mixed" children were raised in the tribal society rather than in the European society, the social/cultural label "Native American" could have stuck with their descendants for quite a while even as the percentage of Native American DNA became smaller and smaller over the generations. (In this regard I am speaking about the prejudice against Warren's mother, whose actual level of Native American DNA would still have been pretty small.)
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: October 15, 2018 09:26AM
So, when will Trump pay up his bet ? Or is he a welcher ?

(Yeah, he's a welcher.)
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: beagledave
Date: October 15, 2018 09:43AM
Quote
cbelt3
So, when will Trump pay up his bet ? Or is he a welcher ?

(Yeah, he's a welcher.)

The same day that he releases his tax returns.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Pam
Date: October 15, 2018 09:51AM
Quote
cbelt3
So, when will Trump pay up his bet ? Or is he a welcher ?

(Yeah, he's a welcher.)

He's already denied saying anything about a bet.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: October 15, 2018 10:09AM
.....you can paint with all the colors......of the winds.......



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: October 15, 2018 10:15AM
Good for her, kinda…

Six generations back would represent a great, great, great, great grandparent; one of 64 people with that relationship to Warren, and just one out of her 126 genetically-contributing ancestors through that generation.

That distant of a relationship would become even more insubstantial with each preceding generation out to the postulated tenth.

Ten generation back would represent a great, great, great, great great, great, great, great grandparent; one of 1,024 people with that relationship to Warren; and just one out of her 2,046 genetically-contributing ancestors through that generation.

If we assume that from the birth of one generation to the birth of the next averages about 25 years, 6 generations would go back 150 years, and 10 generations would go back 250.

Elizabeth Warren was born in 1949, so 250 years before her birth would be 1699, and 150 years before her birth would be 1799. Even between 1799 and 1949, Warren’s own life experiences would be so removed and different from those of that one ancestor as to be literally unrelated.

(Please feel free to check my math on this.)
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 15, 2018 10:33AM
Ugh, I hate this whole story.

To me this makes it even more embarrassing for her that she claimed "Native American" background on an employment form. The stories she used to tell about Cherokee relatives in her not-too-distant past are clearly false. It's also embarrassing that Harvard bragged about her as a "minority teacher" when she is no such thing.

That doesn't make Trump's racist mockery OK either.

I hope others take this as a cautionary tale before they decide to claim a heritage based on some vague childhood memory that nobody else can verify or document.

[www.politifact.com]
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: October 15, 2018 10:44AM
Quote
Janit
One European had a child with a Native American, that child had a child with a European, etc etc.

This scenario agrees with the provided data; one Native American ancestor, European ancestors from that point on.

With the provided data, at most Warren's mother could have been no more than 1/32 Native American; one great, great, great grandparent.

Quote
Janit
And if these early "mixed" children were raised in the tribal society

This does not follow from the data. It would require successive generations of offspring, despite continuing and exclusively European parents, to nonetheless be continually "raised in the tribal society."
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 15, 2018 10:49AM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Janit
One European had a child with a Native American, that child had a child with a European, etc etc.

This scenario agrees with the provided data; one Native American ancestor, European ancestors from that point on.

With the provided data, at most Warren's mother could have been no more than 1/32 Native American; one great, great, great grandparent.

Quote
Janit
And if these early "mixed" children were raised in the tribal society

This does not follow from the data. It would require successive generations of offspring, despite continuing and exclusively European parents, to nonetheless be continually "raised in the tribal society."


Janit's conclusion follows from what we know about colonial history. 23andme's data shows that most of these earliest Native or African ancestors of today's "white" Americans were mothers; it was the European colonial men who were aggressive and frequently raped non-white women. They rarely took the resulting children and raised them in their European families.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: October 15, 2018 10:56AM
....faux....sure......'sug......



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Ted King
Date: October 15, 2018 11:01AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Ugh, I hate this whole story.

To me this makes it even more embarrassing for her that she claimed "Native American" background on an employment form. The stories she used to tell about Cherokee relatives in her not-too-distant past are clearly false. It's also embarrassing that Harvard bragged about her as a "minority teacher" when she is no such thing.

That doesn't make Trump's racist mockery OK either.

I hope others take this as a cautionary tale before they decide to claim a heritage based on some vague childhood memory that nobody else can verify or document.

[www.politifact.com]

Yeah, I think Warren got too far over her skis on this. It's not a big deal by any means, but she probably shouldn't have made the claims.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2018 12:09PM by Ted King.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: October 15, 2018 11:06AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Janit's conclusion follows from what we know about colonial history. 23andme's data shows that most of these earliest Native or African ancestors of today's "white" Americans were mothers; it was the European colonial men who were aggressive and frequently raped non-white women. They rarely took the resulting children and raised them in their European families.

Completely valid for that first generation, but how true for each successive generation; particularly if all succeeding parents are European, and statistically slightly more offspring would be males?
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Acer
Date: October 15, 2018 11:24AM
Compare other types of traditional ancestry, taken through the mother, for example, where if your mother was, you are 100% regardless of father. I believe some Jewish heritage is calculated that way. (Steve G might have more to say here.) Most tribes recognize partial ancestry, to varying degrees. Who gets to say what counts? Trump? Warren? The Cherokee nation?
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 15, 2018 11:34AM
Quote
Acer
Compare other types of traditional ancestry, taken through the mother, for example, where if your mother was, you are 100% regardless of father. I believe some Jewish heritage is calculated that way. (Steve G might have more to say here.) Most tribes recognize partial ancestry, to varying degrees. Who gets to say what counts? Trump? Warren? The Cherokee nation?

The tribes have very specific rules regarding tribal citizenship, and they definitely get to decide how that works:
[www.cherokee.org]

But on the broader point I agree 100%, nearly everyone in the US has mixed genetic background. It's interesting, but deciding what it means is up to a lot of interpretation.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: October 15, 2018 11:42AM
Here's the Wikipedia article on matrilineal descent for Jews => [en.wikipedia.org]
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: max
Date: October 15, 2018 11:50AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Acer
Compare other types of traditional ancestry, taken through the mother, for example, where if your mother was, you are 100% regardless of father. I believe some Jewish heritage is calculated that way. (Steve G might have more to say here.) Most tribes recognize partial ancestry, to varying degrees. Who gets to say what counts? Trump? Warren? The Cherokee nation?

The tribes have very specific rules regarding tribal citizenship, and they definitely get to decide how that works:
[www.cherokee.org]

But on the broader point I agree 100%, nearly everyone in the US has mixed genetic background. It's interesting, but deciding what it means is up to a lot of interpretation.

I can go back to Genghis Khan if that helps anyone to brand me as an Asian.....
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: October 15, 2018 12:49PM
My nieces husband was 1/16 Cherokee - he could join the tribe. His children were 1/32 and could not. So the cutoff must be 1/16th.

Even then, I think Lemon hit it - the whole thing is embarrassingly stupid.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: October 15, 2018 12:49PM
FLASHBACK: President Trump on Elizabeth Warren, 7/5/2018: "I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian." [t.co] pic.twitter.com/ToAd1qaQJl

Pay up, Fat Boy.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Janit
Date: October 15, 2018 12:51PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Lemon Drop
Janit's conclusion follows from what we know about colonial history. 23andme's data shows that most of these earliest Native or African ancestors of today's "white" Americans were mothers; it was the European colonial men who were aggressive and frequently raped non-white women. They rarely took the resulting children and raised them in their European families.

Completely valid for that first generation, but how true for each successive generation; particularly if all succeeding parents are European, and statistically slightly more offspring would be males?

I am simply giving one possible explanation for how it might be that Warren's grandparents disapproved of her mother's "Native American" lineage even though we can see from the DNA analysis that the actual ancestor would have been very distant.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 15, 2018 01:26PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Ugh, I hate this whole story.

To me this makes it even more embarrassing for her that she claimed "Native American" background on an employment form. The stories she used to tell about Cherokee relatives in her not-too-distant past are clearly false. It's also embarrassing that Harvard bragged about her as a "minority teacher" when she is no such thing.

That doesn't make Trump's racist mockery OK either.

I hope others take this as a cautionary tale before they decide to claim a heritage based on some vague childhood memory that nobody else can verify or document.

[www.politifact.com]
Did you watch the video on her web site?



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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 15, 2018 01:30PM
Quote
Ombligo
My nieces husband was 1/16 Cherokee - he could join the tribe. His children were 1/32 and could not. So the cutoff must be 1/16th.

Even then, I think Lemon hit it - the whole thing is embarrassingly stupid.
Bill John Baker, the current Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation is 1/32 (3.1%) Cherokee.



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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Janit
Date: October 15, 2018 01:44PM
Quote
$tevie
Quote
Lemon Drop
Ugh, I hate this whole story.

To me this makes it even more embarrassing for her that she claimed "Native American" background on an employment form. The stories she used to tell about Cherokee relatives in her not-too-distant past are clearly false. It's also embarrassing that Harvard bragged about her as a "minority teacher" when she is no such thing.

That doesn't make Trump's racist mockery OK either.

I hope others take this as a cautionary tale before they decide to claim a heritage based on some vague childhood memory that nobody else can verify or document.

[www.politifact.com]
Did you watch the video on her web site?

Indeed. Warren has been very careful about what she claims and what she does not claim. It is other people who have misinterpreted and overextended the things she has said and written.

When caught in a situation of damned if you do/damned if you don't, what is the best course? To tell the truth as carefully as you can, as best you can. At least now no one can say she was hiding something by refusing to take the test.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Janit
Date: October 15, 2018 01:55PM
Quote
Pam
Quote
cbelt3
So, when will Trump pay up his bet ? Or is he a welcher ?

(Yeah, he's a welcher.)

He's already denied saying anything about a bet.

Of course, who would expect otherwise?

[www.washingtonpost.com]

Quote

Warren also indicated she hadn’t forgotten about Trump’s promise in July.

“Remember saying on 7/5 that you’d give $1M to a charity of my choice if my DNA showed Native American ancestry?” she tweeted. “I remember — and here’s the verdict. Please send the check to the National Indigenous Women’s Resource Center.”

The charity she chose is a nonprofit that seeks to protect Native American women from violence.

“Send them your $1M check, @realDonaldTrump,” Warren added.

Warren said she took the test because she had “nothing to hide” — then dared Trump to release his tax returns.

Standing on a soggy White House lawn Monday, Trump denied he had ever made the promise.

“Who cares?” he told reporters, when asked if he had heard about Warren releasing the results of her DNA test.

Earlier Monday, Kellyanne Conway, counselor to the president, dismissed Warren’s DNA test as “junk science,” an early indication that Trump is not likely to follow through on the donation promise he now denies having made.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2018 02:02PM by Janit.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 15, 2018 02:17PM
Damn, the U.S. is obsessed with race.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 15, 2018 02:34PM
Quote
$tevie
Quote
Lemon Drop
Ugh, I hate this whole story.

To me this makes it even more embarrassing for her that she claimed "Native American" background on an employment form. The stories she used to tell about Cherokee relatives in her not-too-distant past are clearly false. It's also embarrassing that Harvard bragged about her as a "minority teacher" when she is no such thing.

That doesn't make Trump's racist mockery OK either.

I hope others take this as a cautionary tale before they decide to claim a heritage based on some vague childhood memory that nobody else can verify or document.

[www.politifact.com]
Did you watch the video on her web site?

I read her family story linked in the OP. It doesn't address the earlier claims she has made about her heritage or why she would check a box on an employment form stating that she is NA, when no such heritage is documented, claimed by other family members, or remembered even as stories by other relatives. Only Warren seems to have these memories.
It's a big ho-hum IMO but the reality is she started it with her unverifiable claims.

Blood quantum is a big deal in the NA tribal communities. She should have use a little more care with her claims, and understand the gravity a little better.

This is from a 2012 Slate story:
Elizabeth Warren, the U.S. Senate candidate who claimed minority status during law school and as a young law professor, continues to insist that she is 1/32 Native American. Warren’s only proof is her mother’s word.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Acer
Date: October 15, 2018 02:36PM
There's some measure of vindication here, but it's rather small, and think I everyone involved would be best advised to move on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2018 02:36PM by Acer.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: October 15, 2018 02:37PM
Quote
rjmacs
Damn, the U.S. is obsessed with race.

More accurately:
Slime like Trump and his pack are obsessed in race.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 15, 2018 02:42PM
Quote
Steve G.
Quote
rjmacs
Damn, the U.S. is obsessed with race.

More accurately:
Slime like Trump and his pack are obsessed in race.

Yeah, except as LD pointed out, he and his pack had nothing to do with Warren claiming indigenous heritage for no clear reason. She clearly thought that it would bring her something to make a claim about her ancestry, despite her clearly not understanding what that ancestry is. It's bizarre and emblematic of America's racial pathologies.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 15, 2018 04:15PM
There's a bunch of documents at her site. And testimony from family members. [elizabethwarren.com]

I suppose all the documents could be fake and her family and former employers could all be lying. I suppose we can stop considering her as a Presidential candidate since she seems to have been grouped with all the other women that nobody wants to listen to.



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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: max
Date: October 15, 2018 04:16PM
Quote
Steve G.
FLASHBACK: President Trump on Elizabeth Warren, 7/5/2018: "I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian." [t.co] pic.twitter.com/ToAd1qaQJl

Pay up, Fat Boy.

Another comprehension challenged Democratic Koolaide swiller.

According to the very Native Americans, she is no "Indian". None of the tribes would admit her.

Even according to janit she supposedly does not claim to be one:...
Quote
Janit
Indeed. Warren has been very careful about what she claims and what she does not claim. It is other people who have misinterpreted and overextended the things she has said and written.

You are not claiming to be Nazi, SteveG just because you got 1/96 trace of Germanic DNA or because your name is of the Germanic origin?....




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution;
one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 15, 2018 04:45PM
I think this statement from Dr. Kim TallBear, a college professor and expert in tribal matters, is pretty important regarding what's wrong with Warren's approach and the entire focus of this debacle.

[twitter.com]
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 15, 2018 04:46PM
I suppose being in the DAR or telling everyone that one is descended from an English king is okay because that DNA, however small, is white and therefore okay to bring up.



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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 15, 2018 04:51PM
Quote
$tevie
There's a bunch of documents at her site. And testimony from family members. [elizabethwarren.com]

I suppose all the documents could be fake and her family and former employers could all be lying. I suppose we can stop considering her as a Presidential candidate since she seems to have been grouped with all the other women that nobody wants to listen to.

I don't see anything that documents that she is NA. I must be missing it. Only her repeating the stories that her Mom's family had NA ancestry. I don't see any family members verifying that.
This claim did not get her where she is today; smarts and hard work did. No question about that. But it was really dumb on her part to try and label herself a minority. There's just getting around that.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 15, 2018 04:53PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
I think this statement from Dr. Kim TallBear, a college professor and expert in tribal matters, is pretty important regarding what's wrong with Warren's approach and the entire focus of this debacle.

[twitter.com]
Is there a statement from someone who doesn't make their living by attacking DNA tests? This woman is promoting her usual agenda so that means it's not an objective scientific statement.

Hey, I don't think Warren is a Native American, but I am too intelligent to let the racist right wing create a controversy and then mock Warren for addressing it.







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2018 04:56PM by $tevie.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 15, 2018 05:00PM
Quote
$tevie
Quote
Lemon Drop
I think this statement from Dr. Kim TallBear, a college professor and expert in tribal matters, is pretty important regarding what's wrong with Warren's approach and the entire focus of this debacle.

[twitter.com]
Is there a statement from someone who doesn't make their living by attacking DNA tests? This woman is promoting her usual agenda so that means it's not an objective scientific statement.

Hey, I don't think Warren is a Native American, but I am too intelligent to let the racist right wing create a controversy and then mock Warren for addressing it.

Huh??

How about the head of the Cherokee Nation?

"A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person's ancestors were indigenous to North or South America. Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, who ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is prove. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage."

- Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin, Jr.



[www.kjrh.com]


pretty sure they're not part of the "racist right wing."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2018 05:03PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 15, 2018 05:04PM
Sometimes liberals really eff it up on race. This is one of those times.

Not holding her accountable is a big mistake, IMO.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 15, 2018 05:41PM
Liberals eff it up because they cannot wait to dump on someone that they think has been not saintlike or not PC.

The GOP sticks with their buttheads through thick and thin. The liberals in the Democratic party cannot wait to throw people out of the lifeboat because they find them to be a bit offensive. They throw out the babies with the bathwater and then try to blame "economic distress" for losing all three branches of the Federal Government.

A liberal will stab you in the back quicker than Brutus if they think you have been even a teeny weeny bit impure. I'm so tired of it. We'll never get Congress back when we keep shooting ourselves in the foot.



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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 15, 2018 05:43PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
$tevie
Quote
Lemon Drop
I think this statement from Dr. Kim TallBear, a college professor and expert in tribal matters, is pretty important regarding what's wrong with Warren's approach and the entire focus of this debacle.

[twitter.com]
Is there a statement from someone who doesn't make their living by attacking DNA tests? This woman is promoting her usual agenda so that means it's not an objective scientific statement.

Hey, I don't think Warren is a Native American, but I am too intelligent to let the racist right wing create a controversy and then mock Warren for addressing it.

Huh??

How about the head of the Cherokee Nation?

"A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person's ancestors were indigenous to North or South America. Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, who ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is prove. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage."

- Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin, Jr.



[www.kjrh.com]


pretty sure they're not part of the "racist right wing."
He's not the head of the Cherokee nation. See my post above re: 1/32nd Cherokee Bill John Baker.

And she never said she was a member of a tribe or a citizen of the Nation. THIS is putting words in her mouth. THIS is why we can't have nice things.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2018 05:44PM by $tevie.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 15, 2018 05:47PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
I don't see anything that documents that she is NA. I must be missing it.
The documents show her checking NO as to being a minority.



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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: samintx
Date: October 15, 2018 05:53PM
45 just said he didn’t say he would give her 1mil for proof. Then he said he would have to prove it. Gee, when is he going to have time to perform a DNA test?
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: October 15, 2018 06:01PM
Chuck Hoskin, Jr.
"Secretary of State of the Cherokee Nation Chuck Hoskin, Jr. has cited genealogist David Cornsilk in a statement saying that Jones is not a member of any federally recognized Native American tribe"

David Cornsilk
"Anyone with some micro-thin strain of Cherokee blood should be thanking the Freedmen because they have proven that our citizenship is not based on blood or any anthropological definition of "Indian" but is a legal concept rooted in the right of the Cherokee people to determine who is and who is not a Cherokee." At the same time, he believes that the Cherokee citizens have the right to determine who shall be citizens.

"Science, Schmience! Let's take a vote."

Glad they've gotten all that settled. RollingEyesSmiley5
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 15, 2018 06:05PM
Here is the Boston Globe's reporting on this today:

Critics questioned whether Warren, who had risen from humble beginnings to become a Harvard Law School professor, had gained advantage along the way from claiming Native American heritage. During her academic career as a law professor, she had her ethnicity changed from white to Native American at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, where she taught from 1987 to 1995, and at Harvard University Law School, where she was a tenured faculty member starting in 1995. (She was a visiting professor at Harvard during the 1992-1993 academic year.) Ivy League universities, like the ones where Warren taught, were under great pressure to show they had diverse staffs.

In an interview with the Globe published last month, Warren explained that she identified herself as Native American in the late 1980s and early 1990s as many of the matriarchs of her family were dying and she began to feel that her family stories and history were becoming lost.

[www.bostonglobe.com]


The fact that she made these claims and that at least at Harvard she was touted as having NA heritage; this is not in dispute. That's why she published the DNA test results and why we've had this weird thing since her 2012 Senate campaign.

It's just a mistake, but the DNA test is not making it better.

I don't like her approach, I think it's disrespectful to tribal people.

I don't like Trump's approach, he's a racist jerk.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 15, 2018 06:09PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Chuck Hoskin, Jr.
"Secretary of State of the Cherokee Nation Chuck Hoskin, Jr. has cited genealogist David Cornsilk in a statement saying that Jones is not a member of any federally recognized Native American tribe"

David Cornsilk
"Anyone with some micro-thin strain of Cherokee blood should be thanking the Freedmen because they have proven that our citizenship is not based on blood or any anthropological definition of "Indian" but is a legal concept rooted in the right of the Cherokee people to determine who is and who is not a Cherokee." At the same time, he believes that the Cherokee citizens have the right to determine who shall be citizens.

"Science, Schmience! Let's take a vote."

Glad they've gotten all that settled. RollingEyesSmiley5



Who is Jones?
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: October 15, 2018 06:18PM
Kaya Jones

"Jones is a conservative, and an outspoken supporter of President Donald Trump. She has appeared on the Fox News show Hannity several times, beginning with an appearance in June 2017.

In December 2017, Jones announced she had joined the National Diversity Coalition for Trump, where she is listed as a director with the title Native American Ambassador for Trump. With this announcement, she began to draw heavy criticism from prominent members of the Native American community. Jones has claimed to have Apache heritage, but Native American journalists state that no Apache tribe claims her, and that there is no confirmation of any Native ancestry for Jones. Secretary of State of the Cherokee Nation Chuck Hoskin, Jr. has cited genealogist David Cornsilk in a statement saying that Jones is not a member of any federally recognized Native American tribe.["
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 15, 2018 06:20PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Kaya Jones

"Jones is a conservative, and an outspoken supporter of President Donald Trump. She has appeared on the Fox News show Hannity several times, beginning with an appearance in June 2017.

In December 2017, Jones announced she had joined the National Diversity Coalition for Trump, where she is listed as a director with the title Native American Ambassador for Trump. With this announcement, she began to draw heavy criticism from prominent members of the Native American community. Jones has claimed to have Apache heritage, but Native American journalists state that no Apache tribe claims her, and that there is no confirmation of any Native ancestry for Jones. Secretary of State of the Cherokee Nation Chuck Hoskin, Jr. has cited genealogist David Cornsilk in a statement saying that Jones is not a member of any federally recognized Native American tribe.["

what does this have to do with Elizabeth Warren and her claims?
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: October 15, 2018 06:40PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Ugh, I hate this whole story.

To me this makes it even more embarrassing for her that she claimed "Native American" background on an employment form. The stories she used to tell about Cherokee relatives in her not-too-distant past are clearly false. It's also embarrassing that Harvard bragged about her as a "minority teacher" when she is no such thing.

That doesn't make Trump's racist mockery OK either.

I hope others take this as a cautionary tale before they decide to claim a heritage based on some vague childhood memory that nobody else can verify or document.

[www.politifact.com]

Yes..and it bums me out, big time.

But, speaking to her referencing Native American 'relatives//.not to distant- whatever..Families carry all sorts of 'legends' like this forward because there is a certain romance attached to it, it happens all the time and, like fish stories, they get distorted, blown up..it might not have been her fault in any way. She was probably repeating things she'd heard a million times at dinners, holidays..Thanksgiving toasts or whatever..but your post is spot on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2018 06:40PM by Kraniac.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: October 15, 2018 06:47PM
All this is incidental. Warren (and Biden and Sanders) are too old to be president.
Even Trump, if he were not an absolute insane moron, would be too old in 2020 to be truly qualified.
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Re: Regarding Elizabeth Warren: Fauxcahontas NOT Faux!
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 15, 2018 06:52PM
Quote
Steve G.
All this is incidental. Warren (and Biden and Sanders) are too old to be president.
Even Trump, if he were not an absolute insane moron, would be too old in 2020 to be truly qualified.

This^ This^ This^ This^ This^ This^ This^



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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