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A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: December 02, 2018 11:20AM
Yes, even GHW Bush had his major blunders


you say 'potato'...


"He is the best qualified.”


left him in charge


Idiot progeny


On the other hand...
Bush’s private account of a 1988 encounter with a woman who supported the televangelist Pat Robertson’s campaign for the Republican nomination. The woman refused to shake the Vice-President’s hand. Bush complained in his diary:
"There’s something terrible about those who carry it to extremes. They’re scary. They’re there for spooky, extraordinary right-winged reasons. They don’t care about Party. They don’t care about anything. They’re the excesses. They could be Nazis, they could be Communists, they could be whatever. In this case, they’re religious fanatics and they’re spooky. They will destroy this party if they’re permitted to take over."
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 02, 2018 12:10PM
they’re religious fanatics and they’re spooky. They will destroy this party if they’re permitted to take over."

That's a bit ironic (and hypocritical) given that his son W had become a born=again Christian 3 years before that quote by his Dad, persuaded by none other than Billy Graham. He did it not because of politics but as a method for fighting alcoholism and saving his marriage and family. W is quoted as saying he couldn't go to counseling because of his Dad's high profile political role, but he could go to church. There's no question that his ability to do authentic God-talk helped him connect with voters and defeat Al Gore (well that and his brother and the Supreme Court...)

White evangelicals are just a small subset of the group that fears losing racial status and continues to support Donald Trump no matter what happens. Being a "white evangelical" is less a moral framework than a cultural identity. Pappy Bush used racial animus and white identity politics to win his election in 1988, he was part of that coalition too.
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: graylocks
Date: December 02, 2018 12:22PM
Lemon, i have met a few people who claim the born-again tag but are not spooky, religous fanatics. the terms are not synonymous.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 02, 2018 12:29PM
Quote
graylocks
Lemon, i have met a few people who claim the born-again tag but are not spooky, religous fanatics. the terms are not synonymous.

I don't believe I said they were. I grew up in the Bible belt, I know quite a few "born-agains" as well.

My point is that "white evangelicals" as a group are NOT actually religious fanatics so much as a group tied to a specific cultural identity they believe is under attack and in decline, and they align with politicians who speak about preserving that. Has little to do with religion as a moral framework that requires adherence to a religion's set of values or prescribed behavior.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2018 12:33PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: December 02, 2018 02:45PM
On the bright side, 45 doesn't go out in the rain for dead veterans.

(and yeah, I know that isn't the rain you were referring too.)



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 02, 2018 03:13PM
Yesterday was World AIDS Day. People under age 40 or so will have no memory of what went on during the Reagan /Bush I years with regards to that epidemic and treatment of the LGBTQ community in general. Hopefully they will read about it though. Yesterday gave me little to celebrate or remember fondly regarding 41.

We're missing an entire generation of gay men, and it didn't have to be that way.

I'll leave the hagiography to others.
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: samintx
Date: December 02, 2018 03:33PM
smiley-laughing001
Quote
Ombligo
On the bright side, 45 doesn't go out in the rain for dead veterans.

(and yeah, I know that isn't the rain you were referring too.)
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 02, 2018 05:43PM
Quote
Steve G.
On the other hand...
Bush’s private account of a 1988 encounter with a woman who supported the televangelist Pat Robertson’s campaign for the Republican nomination. The woman refused to shake the Vice-President’s hand. Bush complained in his diary:
"There’s something terrible about those who carry it to extremes. They’re scary. They’re there for spooky, extraordinary right-winged reasons. They don’t care about Party. They don’t care about anything. They’re the excesses. They could be Nazis, they could be Communists, they could be whatever. In this case, they’re religious fanatics and they’re spooky. They will destroy this party if they’re permitted to take over."

The thing about old skool conservatives like Pappy Bush was that while they certainly were alarmed at the nut jobs, (see previously, Barry Goldwater's premonition ... ) they did exactly ZERO about it, silently taking their votes and moving on, confident the wackos would never become a problem.

Put another way, there's pretty much no chance the rise of hate in this country was fueled by the Left.
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: max
Date: December 02, 2018 07:18PM
Quote
deckeda
Put another way, there's pretty much no chance the rise of hate in this country was fueled by the Left.
Put another way, there's pretty much no chance you have looked at your own posts, especially your rabid, slobbering love for the current regime...




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution;
one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: bfd
Date: December 02, 2018 10:53PM
Quote
Lemon Drop


We're missing an entire generation of gay men, and it didn't have to be that way.

Indeed it didn't.
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: December 02, 2018 11:19PM
The OP reminded me of a boss I once had who yelled at an employee "You just made a major blunder!" So then her nickname was Major Blunder. It still makes me laugh.



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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: sekker
Date: December 02, 2018 11:28PM
41 was a good guy, but he made choices for political gain that hurt our country a lot.

Too bad he didn’t stay the course on his convictions.
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: December 03, 2018 12:33AM
Quote
41 was a good guy, but he made choices for political gain that hurt our country a lot.

QFE



In tha 360. [url=Zee Maps Now requires a subscription/payment to work]MRF User Map[/url]
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 03, 2018 06:29AM
Quote
bfd
Quote
Lemon Drop


We're missing an entire generation of gay men, and it didn't have to be that way.

Indeed it didn't.

The toll on Black people has been far worse, too. Today, 1/4 of all new HIV infections are Black men; another 10% are Black women.

Racism and homophobia combined, as things often do, to make things worse for people at greater risk. George H.W. Bush exacerbated both of these.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 03, 2018 09:47AM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
bfd
Quote
Lemon Drop


We're missing an entire generation of gay men, and it didn't have to be that way.

Indeed it didn't.

The toll on Black people has been far worse, too. Today, 1/4 of all new HIV infections are Black men; another 10% are Black women.

Racism and homophobia combined, as things often do, to make things worse for people at greater risk. George H.W. Bush exacerbated both of these.

Then we should have defeated him. There's no point in holding grudges now.
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 03, 2018 10:22AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
bfd
Quote
Lemon Drop


We're missing an entire generation of gay men, and it didn't have to be that way.

Indeed it didn't.

The toll on Black people has been far worse, too. Today, 1/4 of all new HIV infections are Black men; another 10% are Black women.

Racism and homophobia combined, as things often do, to make things worse for people at greater risk. George H.W. Bush exacerbated both of these.

Then we should have defeated him. There's no point in holding grudges now.

I was but a wee lad, but I canvassed for Dukakis.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 03, 2018 01:05PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
bfd
Quote
Lemon Drop


We're missing an entire generation of gay men, and it didn't have to be that way.

Indeed it didn't.

The toll on Black people has been far worse, too. Today, 1/4 of all new HIV infections are Black men; another 10% are Black women.

Racism and homophobia combined, as things often do, to make things worse for people at greater risk. George H.W. Bush exacerbated both of these.

Then we should have defeated him. There's no point in holding grudges now.

I was but a wee lad, but I canvassed for Dukakis.

That's cool. Our Democratic Club did all we could to stop 8 years of the meanest presidency of our lives. This was a mere 24 years past the Voting Rights Act being enacted and Black voters were still building up political capital. Jesse Jackson helped a lot. It was his second influential run. In my voting life, that was my third straight failed presidential vote (though I did work on Carter's '76 campaign though I wasn't old enough to vote, but I had joined my Democratic Club).

Bush campaign manager, Lee Atwater, the architect of the Willie Horton strategy, apologized for it as he faced his untimely death which was interesting.
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: max
Date: December 03, 2018 05:04PM
Quote
deckeda
Put another way, there's pretty much no chance the rise of hate in this country was fueled by the Left.
That is a real beaut, deckeda, an attempted assassination does not mean hate.
[forums.macresource.com]

Those pesky inconvenient facts.......




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution;
one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: hal
Date: December 03, 2018 08:23PM
Quote
vision63
Bush campaign manager, Lee Atwater, the architect of the Willie Horton strategy, apologized for it as he faced his untimely death which was interesting.

did NOT know that... yes, very interesting
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 04, 2018 07:14AM
Quote
max
My name is max and contextual understanding eludes me.
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 04, 2018 08:25AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
Then we should have defeated him. There's no point in holding grudges now.

I was but a wee lad, but I canvassed for Dukakis.

That's cool. Our Democratic Club did all we could to stop 8 years of the meanest presidency of our lives. This was a mere 24 years past the Voting Rights Act being enacted and Black voters were still building up political capital. Jesse Jackson helped a lot. It was his second influential run. In my voting life, that was my third straight failed presidential vote (though I did work on Carter's '76 campaign though I wasn't old enough to vote, but I had joined my Democratic Club).

Bush campaign manager, Lee Atwater, the architect of the Willie Horton strategy, apologized for it as he faced his untimely death which was interesting.

I'm not holding grudges, but I don't think we should just remember the civility and the mild-mannered sweet GHWB and forget that America didn't find it at all dissonant that the same person sat silent while AIDS rages unabated, stoked fears of Black people as dangerous criminals, and encouraged uprisings in Iraq that he watched violently repressed.

America was happy to have both of these things in one man. That's my point, not a grudge.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 05, 2018 03:09AM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
Then we should have defeated him. There's no point in holding grudges now.

I was but a wee lad, but I canvassed for Dukakis.

That's cool. Our Democratic Club did all we could to stop 8 years of the meanest presidency of our lives. This was a mere 24 years past the Voting Rights Act being enacted and Black voters were still building up political capital. Jesse Jackson helped a lot. It was his second influential run. In my voting life, that was my third straight failed presidential vote (though I did work on Carter's '76 campaign though I wasn't old enough to vote, but I had joined my Democratic Club).

Bush campaign manager, Lee Atwater, the architect of the Willie Horton strategy, apologized for it as he faced his untimely death which was interesting.

I'm not holding grudges, but I don't think we should just remember the civility and the mild-mannered sweet GHWB and forget that America didn't find it at all dissonant that the same person sat silent while AIDS rages unabated, stoked fears of Black people as dangerous criminals, and encouraged uprisings in Iraq that he watched violently repressed.

America was happy to have both of these things in one man. That's my point, not a grudge.

It is pointless. I get what you're saying. Never forget the evil. I'm with you on that. But that's us reacting to them. When we FAIL to engineer a victory. We only do that when we unnecessarily LOSE to them and they get to run roughshod doing their dastardly biddings because that's the spoils. A professionally politically aware citizen, can walk and chew gum at the same time. And there is the context of those times. The Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act dropped a mere 24 years earlier. We're still in the throes of evolving our racial state. Slavery + Jim Crow lasted nearly 400 years. Poor white people's backs are against the wall. They got a win but we're gonna win in the end. Then I guarantee, we're gonna take care of them. Jobs, health care, justice, peace.

A good citizen must demonstrate tolerance, love, civility, manners and graciousness as a general mode of conduct. You do your battle within the context of the battle. Magic and Bird had vicious battles on the court and were killers until the game was over.

We're MORE than them. We can always beat them. The only way they win is by cheating and dividing us while their shrinking ranks lock arms and legislate for their survival. Evil is easy. They don't have to build anything. They just tear stuff down. But we, gotta stick together.

They beat us by peeling us away just enough of us. We just gotta vote hard. I've never missed an election. I've never voted for a Republican. 14% of Black males voted for Kemp. That's not tolerable. We'll address that.

It's ok to like Daddy Bush. He grew over time. So did his son. I don't think either of them are "bad" guys. But they sure allowed some evil people to populate their administrations. In the interest of re-establishing a political civility, we can mourn him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2018 03:14AM by vision63.
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: Speedy
Date: December 05, 2018 08:13AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
Then we should have defeated him. There's no point in holding grudges now.

I was but a wee lad, but I canvassed for Dukakis.

That's cool. Our Democratic Club did all we could to stop 8 years of the meanest presidency of our lives. This was a mere 24 years past the Voting Rights Act being enacted and Black voters were still building up political capital. Jesse Jackson helped a lot. It was his second influential run. In my voting life, that was my third straight failed presidential vote (though I did work on Carter's '76 campaign though I wasn't old enough to vote, but I had joined my Democratic Club).

Bush campaign manager, Lee Atwater, the architect of the Willie Horton strategy, apologized for it as he faced his untimely death which was interesting.

I'm not holding grudges, but I don't think we should just remember the civility and the mild-mannered sweet GHWB and forget that America didn't find it at all dissonant that the same person sat silent while AIDS rages unabated, stoked fears of Black people as dangerous criminals, and encouraged uprisings in Iraq that he watched violently repressed.

America was happy to have both of these things in one man. That's my point, not a grudge.

It is pointless. I get what you're saying. Never forget the evil. I'm with you on that. But that's us reacting to them. When we FAIL to engineer a victory. We only do that when we unnecessarily LOSE to them and they get to run roughshod doing their dastardly biddings because that's the spoils. A professionally politically aware citizen, can walk and chew gum at the same time. And there is the context of those times. The Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act dropped a mere 24 years earlier. We're still in the throes of evolving our racial state. Slavery + Jim Crow lasted nearly 400 years. Poor white people's backs are against the wall. They got a win but we're gonna win in the end. Then I guarantee, we're gonna take care of them. Jobs, health care, justice, peace.

A good citizen must demonstrate tolerance, love, civility, manners and graciousness as a general mode of conduct. You do your battle within the context of the battle. Magic and Bird had vicious battles on the court and were killers until the game was over.

We're MORE than them. We can always beat them. The only way they win is by cheating and dividing us while their shrinking ranks lock arms and legislate for their survival. Evil is easy. They don't have to build anything. They just tear stuff down. But we, gotta stick together.

They beat us by peeling us away just enough of us. We just gotta vote hard. I've never missed an election. I've never voted for a Republican. 14% of Black males voted for Kemp. That's not tolerable. We'll address that.

It's ok to like Daddy Bush. He grew over time. So did his son. I don't think either of them are "bad" guys. But they sure allowed some evil people to populate their administrations. In the interest of re-establishing a political civility, we can mourn him.

There are people who would say, “How very white of you.” The Bush’s come to mind.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2018 08:14AM by Speedy.
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: max
Date: December 05, 2018 08:43AM
Quote
max
Quote
deckeda
Put another way, there's pretty much no chance the rise of hate in this country was fueled by the Left.
That is a real beaut, deckeda, an attempted assassination does not mean hate.
[forums.macresource.com]

Those pesky inconvenient facts.......

Unable to admit losing the argument, deckeda. desperately comes up with this gem:
Quote
deckeda
Quote
max
My name is max and contextual understanding eludes me.

In other words you had nothing, again, deckeda, those pesky inconvenient facts....




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution;
one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 05, 2018 02:35PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
vision63
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
Then we should have defeated him. There's no point in holding grudges now.

I was but a wee lad, but I canvassed for Dukakis.

That's cool. Our Democratic Club did all we could to stop 8 years of the meanest presidency of our lives. This was a mere 24 years past the Voting Rights Act being enacted and Black voters were still building up political capital. Jesse Jackson helped a lot. It was his second influential run. In my voting life, that was my third straight failed presidential vote (though I did work on Carter's '76 campaign though I wasn't old enough to vote, but I had joined my Democratic Club).

Bush campaign manager, Lee Atwater, the architect of the Willie Horton strategy, apologized for it as he faced his untimely death which was interesting.

I'm not holding grudges, but I don't think we should just remember the civility and the mild-mannered sweet GHWB and forget that America didn't find it at all dissonant that the same person sat silent while AIDS rages unabated, stoked fears of Black people as dangerous criminals, and encouraged uprisings in Iraq that he watched violently repressed.

America was happy to have both of these things in one man. That's my point, not a grudge.

It is pointless. I get what you're saying. Never forget the evil. I'm with you on that. But that's us reacting to them. When we FAIL to engineer a victory. We only do that when we unnecessarily LOSE to them and they get to run roughshod doing their dastardly biddings because that's the spoils. A professionally politically aware citizen, can walk and chew gum at the same time. And there is the context of those times. The Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act dropped a mere 24 years earlier. We're still in the throes of evolving our racial state. Slavery + Jim Crow lasted nearly 400 years. Poor white people's backs are against the wall. They got a win but we're gonna win in the end. Then I guarantee, we're gonna take care of them. Jobs, health care, justice, peace.

A good citizen must demonstrate tolerance, love, civility, manners and graciousness as a general mode of conduct. You do your battle within the context of the battle. Magic and Bird had vicious battles on the court and were killers until the game was over.

We're MORE than them. We can always beat them. The only way they win is by cheating and dividing us while their shrinking ranks lock arms and legislate for their survival. Evil is easy. They don't have to build anything. They just tear stuff down. But we, gotta stick together.

They beat us by peeling us away just enough of us. We just gotta vote hard. I've never missed an election. I've never voted for a Republican. 14% of Black males voted for Kemp. That's not tolerable. We'll address that.

It's ok to like Daddy Bush. He grew over time. So did his son. I don't think either of them are "bad" guys. But they sure allowed some evil people to populate their administrations. In the interest of re-establishing a political civility, we can mourn him.

There are people who would say, “How very white of you.” The Bush’s come to mind.

But we know what a fierce competitor I can be.
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 05, 2018 05:24PM
You encourage me, vision63. He wasn't evil, GHWB, just empathetically stunted. That led him to do evil things. Democrats do evil things, too, but when both sides have 'issues' you pick the side closer to liberation and pull them along with you. (The 'white' thing to do would be to damn the whole system, grab my toys, and go home.)

No damning, no giving up, no living in the past. We live today and plan for tomorrow. Onward to victory, v63.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 06, 2018 12:05AM
Quote
rjmacs
You encourage me, vision63. He wasn't evil, GHWB, just empathetically stunted. That led him to do evil things. Democrats do evil things, too, but when both sides have 'issues' you pick the side closer to liberation and pull them along with you. (The 'white' thing to do would be to damn the whole system, grab my toys, and go home.)

No damning, no giving up, no living in the past. We live today and plan for tomorrow. Onward to victory, v63.

ONWARD!!!!!!!!
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Re: A little rain on the GHW Bush parade...
Posted by: hal
Date: December 06, 2018 03:45PM
great stuff guys...
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