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Me Too...
Posted by: max
Date: December 04, 2018 11:47AM
Quote

A Cleveland radio station has stopped playing “Baby It's Cold Outside" this holiday season after it says listeners voiced concern about the song’s predatory undertones amid the #MeToo movement....

The station said it posted a poll about the song on its website and a clear majority of respondents supported the decision to remove the song from the station’s lineup.

Poll results were not visible on the station's website. However, a poll on the station's Facebook page showed that among more than 600 votes by Thursday night, 94 percent of respondents favored playing the song while just 6 percent felt it was inappropriate.
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: DinerDave
Date: December 04, 2018 12:04PM
Well, I guess we can shut down down most radio stations then. Eliminate the questionable wordings of sounds will eliminate almost every song, no matter what the genre. That leaves talk radio, Oh wait, they are full of opinions and political points of view, they gotta go.

I guess my next car will be like you could do in the 70's, "radio delete"

Dave



Welcome to Dave's BBQ!

Many have eaten here....

Few have died
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: mattkime
Date: December 04, 2018 12:05PM
link?



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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 04, 2018 12:52PM
It's a war on creepy Christmas, I tells ya!



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: December 04, 2018 01:13PM
Thinking and culture was different 74 years ago.

How much did music change between 1870 and 1944?
"Some of this decades' (1870s) hits were... 'Good-bye, Liza Jane', 'My Grandfather's Clock' and 'Carry Me Back to Old Virginny'"
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: December 04, 2018 01:22PM
Quote
mattkime
link?
max always leaves the work up to the student.

[www.cnn.com]

Lots of buzz from a minimal move by a tiny radio station. Now playing 24/7 xmas music until your brain bleeds or you change the channel.

Nothing to see here, move along....
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: graylocks
Date: December 04, 2018 01:38PM
starting last year i did note it sounded creepy. even a millenial at work asked me what the hell is that song about?

times have changed. if we could only be as innocent as i bet the songwriters originally intended it to be.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: December 04, 2018 02:27PM
Other traditions are under attack as well

Jingle Bells has been mentioned because it was first performed as part of a minstrel show. Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer for sexism. "Do They Know it is Christmas" because it refers to all of Africa in place of just Ethiopia.

[www.bbc.com]

Next it will be "White Christmas" because? - well just because.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 04, 2018 03:10PM
Quote
Ombligo
Other traditions are under attack as well

Jingle Bells has been mentioned because it was first performed as part of a minstrel show. Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer for sexism. "Do They Know it is Christmas" because it refers to all of Africa in place of just Ethiopia.

[www.bbc.com]

Next it will be "White Christmas" because? - well just because.

Are you mad about the HoA telling you to take down the black lawn jockey statue collection in your yard?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: Acer
Date: December 04, 2018 03:36PM
Go have a listen to "Santa Baby" if you want the creepy female holiday tune.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2018 03:37PM by Acer.
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: December 04, 2018 03:53PM
"Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer" can't be far behind...
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: December 04, 2018 03:58PM
It was a different time.

1946
Peter Pan has legs.
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: billb
Date: December 04, 2018 06:05PM
Well obviously they need to just ignore that facebook poll as an outlier.



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: December 04, 2018 06:54PM
There are few popular songs so outlandishly rapey.

Some things just don't age well.

Wanna get the creeps big-time? Watch reruns of The Office. Endless harassment in the workplace. The Human Resources guy does nothing. The "everyman" hero of the story mostly rolls his eyes when he's not contributing to the toxic environment. It's not very funny.

Star Trek Voyager? The captain was a woman, so it was "progressive," right? Well, you'd have to overlook the Latina-Klingon who nearly kills herself over and over again to make herself and her potential children conform to the physical and cultural ideals of her white boyfriend and the eye-candy Borg-lady whose most frequent crisis as her story progresses is triggered by her sexual urges. The first big villain was a woman-scorned whose entire existence was consumed with her desire for a handsome man. Endless misogynistic themes in that show.

Times change.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2018 06:59PM by Sarcany.
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: December 04, 2018 06:58PM
Quote
Sarcany
Wanna get the creeps big-time? Watch reruns of The Office. Endless harassment in the workplace. The Human Resources guy does nothing. The "everyman" hero of the story mostly rolls his eyes when he's not contributing to the toxic environment. It's not very funny.

Different strokes, but that WAS the intention of The Office. Watch the original UK version; same concept.

Who do you think is the "everyman hero"?
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: sekker
Date: December 04, 2018 07:01PM
It’s tough looking in the mirror and seeing yourself in full light.

I’m happy seeing some ‘classics’ move to the museum - we can and should make our own ‘classics’ and celebrate what we like about our current culture.
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: December 04, 2018 07:02PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Sarcany
Wanna get the creeps big-time? Watch reruns of The Office. Endless harassment in the workplace. The Human Resources guy does nothing. The "everyman" hero of the story mostly rolls his eyes when he's not contributing to the toxic environment. It's not very funny.

Different strokes, but that WAS the intention of The Office. Watch the original UK version; same concept.

Not at all the same. The original was a short run with a story arc describing the painful fall of the manager and a brief humanizing redemption at the end. NBC was in for the long-run. The American characters were meant to be compelling and even inspirational.



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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: CW2V
Date: December 04, 2018 07:59PM
context

"The song, which is a back and forth, closes with the two voices in harmony. This is important — they’ve come together. They’re happy. They’re in agreement. The music has a wonderfully dramatic upswell and ends on a high note both literally and figuratively. The song ends with the woman doing what she wants to do, not what she’s expected to do, and there’s something very encouraging about that message."
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: December 04, 2018 08:54PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Sarcany
Wanna get the creeps big-time? Watch reruns of The Office. Endless harassment in the workplace. The Human Resources guy does nothing. The "everyman" hero of the story mostly rolls his eyes when he's not contributing to the toxic environment. It's not very funny.

Different strokes, but that WAS the intention of The Office. Watch the original UK version; same concept.

Not at all the same. The original was a short run with a story arc describing the painful fall of the manager and a brief humanizing redemption at the end. NBC was in for the long-run. The American characters were meant to be compelling and even inspirational.

WAY OT, but you must have been watching different shows than I did.

- Both shows are the product of Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant's concept (both were executive producers of the U.S. version)

- Both were shot as mock-documentaries

- Both were set in a branch office of a paper supply company

- Both centered on the day-to-day lives of office employees

- Both had similar characters

- And most to the point, both shows centered on "themes of social clumsiness, the trivialities of human behaviour, self-importance and conceit, frustration, desperation and fame."
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: December 04, 2018 10:29PM
It's an old song from back when women weren't supposed to want it. The woman does want it, however she discusses the gossip and scorn her family will heap upon her should she spend the night. The convention was that if a woman said yes to sex, she was a harlot, so she had to mildly protest as she flirted prior to having intercourse. It was not rape, it was a pop culture means of having people in songs and movies enjoy intercourse without the woman's character losing her status as a Good Girl.

Sadly, this led to the No really means Yes myth which was obviously a very bad thing. But Frank Loesser wasn't writing about an unwilling woman. It's how you were forced to have couples couple in pop culture back then.



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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 05, 2018 12:44AM
The song is fine. Can't a guy try to get some?
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: Acer
Date: December 05, 2018 08:55AM
Ah, remember the 60s, when the young folks were all about breaking those stale mores governing "proper" sexual behavior? How did they morph into old busybodies consumed with the intentions of every sideways glance?stick poke smiley
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: December 05, 2018 05:35PM
Quote
$tevie
...she had to mildly protest as she flirted prior to having intercourse.

"No" means "no."

Should have ended at her first protest.

The lyrics sure seem to imply that he pushed a drink on her, drugged her and held her against her will before she grudgingly acquiesced to his advances.

Date-rape.

I've got to go away... My mother will start to worry... Father will be pacing the floor... So really I'd better scurry... Say, what's in this drink?... I really can't stay... I've got to get home... Why don't you see... I really can't stay.

Quote
$tevie
Sadly, this led to the No really means Yes myth...

I think that goes back to the dawn of the species.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2018 05:43PM by Sarcany.
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: $tevie
Date: December 06, 2018 12:14AM
Nonsense. Why is it so important to you to decide that one of Broadway's greatest talents wrote a song about date rape? It's @#$%&.



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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: CW2V
Date: December 06, 2018 05:32AM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
$tevie
...she had to mildly protest as she flirted prior to having intercourse.

"No" means "no."

Should have ended at her first protest.

The lyrics sure seem to imply that he pushed a drink on her, drugged her and held her against her will before she grudgingly acquiesced to his advances.

Date-rape.

I've got to go away... My mother will start to worry... Father will be pacing the floor... So really I'd better scurry... Say, what's in this drink?... I really can't stay... I've got to get home... Why don't you see... I really can't stay.

Quote
$tevie
Sadly, this led to the No really means Yes myth...

I think that goes back to the dawn of the species.

Please read! context is key

Some highlights:

"The tension in the song comes from her own desire to stay and society’s expectations that she’ll go. We see this in the organization of the song — from stopping by for a visit, to deciding to push the line by staying longer, to wanting to spend the entire night, which is really pushing the bounds of acceptability."

"“Say, what’s in this drink” needs to be explained in a broader context to refute the idea that he spiked her drink. “Say, what’s in this drink” is a well-used phrase that was common in movies of the time period and isn’t really used in the same manner any longer. The phrase generally referred to someone saying or doing something they thought they wouldn’t in normal circumstances; it’s a nod to the idea that alcohol is “making” them do something unusual. But the joke is almost always that there is nothing in the drink. The drink is the excuse. The drink is the shield someone gets to hold up in front of them to protect from criticism."
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 06, 2018 10:19AM
When a song's lyrics require hermeneutic interpretation in order not to sound creepy, count me in the "off the playlist" crowd. It's not going to make me crazy to hear it, and personally I think the melody and harmonies are just lovely music. Sometimes phraseologies inadvertently collide with history with unfortunate results; it's unfortunate but a lot less unfortunate than the trauma of sexual violence.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: December 06, 2018 11:52AM
Well, they did change "I get no kick from cocaine" to "I get no kick from champagne".

Perhaps this is another candidate for some modification?
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: December 06, 2018 06:44PM
Quote
$tevie
Nonsense. Why is it so important to you to decide that one of Broadway's greatest talents wrote a song about date rape? It's @#$%&.

Broadway talents? You mean like the guys who wrote this?

A pretty rape!
A literary rape!

We've the obvious open schoolboy rape,
With little mandolins and perhaps a cape.
The rape by coach; it's little in request.
The rape by day, but the rape by night is best.

Just try to see it.
And you will soon agree, señors,
Why
Invite regret,
When you can get the sort of rape
You'll never ever forget.

You can get the rape emphatic.
You can get the rape polite.
You can get the rape with Indians:
A very charming sight.
You can get the rape on horseback;
They'll all say it's new and gay.
So you see the sort of rape
Depends on what you pay.
So you see the sort of rape
Depends on what you pay.


...Oh, but we meant "rape" in the classic sense!



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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: Sam3
Date: December 07, 2018 03:52AM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
$tevie
Nonsense. Why is it so important to you to decide that one of Broadway's greatest talents wrote a song about date rape? It's @#$%&.

Broadway talents? You mean like the guys who wrote this?

A pretty rape!
A literary rape!

We've the obvious open schoolboy rape,
With little mandolins and perhaps a cape.
The rape by coach; it's little in request.
The rape by day, but the rape by night is best.

Just try to see it.
And you will soon agree, señors,
Why
Invite regret,
When you can get the sort of rape
You'll never ever forget.

You can get the rape emphatic.
You can get the rape polite.
You can get the rape with Indians:
A very charming sight.
You can get the rape on horseback;
They'll all say it's new and gay.
So you see the sort of rape
Depends on what you pay.
So you see the sort of rape
Depends on what you pay.


...Oh, but we meant "rape" in the classic sense!

Why yes, they did:
Quote
Wikipedia
In the original production, when El Gallo offers to stage the phony kidnapping of Luisa, he refers to the proposed event as a "rape", although he makes it clear that he uses the word only in its traditional literary sense of "abduction", explaining that many classical works, including Alexander Pope's The Rape of the Lock, use the word in this sense. (See raptio and bride kidnapping.)

Oh, and by the way, the songwriters did write an optional replacement song, using the same melody called "Abduction".
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: December 07, 2018 06:41AM
Quote
Sam3
Oh, and by the way, the songwriters did write an optional replacement song, using the same melody called "Abduction".

Which nullifies the nonsensical assertion that they always meant "rape" to mean "abduction." They were playing with double-meanings and sexual assault was certainly primary.

Disgusting.



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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: max
Date: December 07, 2018 09:25PM
Quote
Sarcany
"No" means "no."

Should have ended at her first protest.

The lyrics sure seem to imply that he pushed a drink on her, drugged her and held her against her will before she grudgingly acquiesced to his advances.

Date-rape.

Let ignore the contextual reality aslisted by CW2V below, and go with you personal creepy interpretation, the way you see women.....

Quote
CW2V
context

"The song, which is a back and forth, closes with the two voices in harmony. This is important — they’ve come together. They’re happy. They’re in agreement. The music has a wonderfully dramatic upswell and ends on a high note both literally and figuratively. The song ends with the woman doing what she wants to do, not what she’s expected to do, and there’s something very encouraging about that message."




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution;
one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: December 07, 2018 10:15PM
Quote
max
Quote
Sarcany
"No" means "no."

Should have ended at her first protest.

The lyrics sure seem to imply that he pushed a drink on her, drugged her and held her against her will before she grudgingly acquiesced to his advances.

Date-rape.

Let ignore the contextual reality aslisted by CW2V below, and go with you personal creepy interpretation, the way you see women.....

Quote
CW2V
context

"The song, which is a back and forth, closes with the two voices in harmony. This is important — they’ve come together. They’re happy. They’re in agreement. The music has a wonderfully dramatic upswell and ends on a high note both literally and figuratively. The song ends with the woman doing what she wants to do, not what she’s expected to do, and there’s something very encouraging about that message."

So, you know that she wants to have sex because after 5 minutes of trying to get away, she succumbs and suffers his advances.

Gotcha.

BTW: Are your prints and DNA on file with the police? Just wondering. There are a few cases they might close with the right info.



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Re: Me Too...
Posted by: max
Date: December 08, 2018 04:21PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
max
Quote
Sarcany
"No" means "no."

Should have ended at her first protest.

The lyrics sure seem to imply that he pushed a drink on her, drugged her and held her against her will before she grudgingly acquiesced to his advances.

Date-rape.

Let ignore the contextual reality aslisted by CW2V below, and go with you personal creepy interpretation, the way you see women.....

Quote
CW2V
context

"The song, which is a back and forth, closes with the two voices in harmony. This is important — they’ve come together. They’re happy. They’re in agreement. The music has a wonderfully dramatic upswell and ends on a high note both literally and figuratively. The song ends with the woman doing what she wants to do, not what she’s expected to do, and there’s something very encouraging about that message."

So, you know that she wants to have sex because after 5 minutes of trying to get away, she succumbs and suffers his advances.

Gotcha.

BTW: Are your prints and DNA on file with the police? Just wondering. There are a few cases they might close with the right info.

Gotcha?
With your own fantasy?
Another perfect example of somebody unable to admit being wrong....

BTW: Are your prints and DNA on file with the police? Just wondering. There are more than a few cases they might close with your info.....




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution;
one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
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