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Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: March 12, 2019 10:07AM
???

One possible outcome if Parliament can't agree on this Irish backstop thing is to ask the EU for an extension. Then vote in all new leadership and start over.

[www.bbc.com]
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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: March 12, 2019 01:02PM
Haven't seen the actual text.

From what I've read/heard, it's the same deal as before for a slow exit, but now spells out an optional fast-exit strategy for 2020 or later if they still can't get their acts together by then.

Not clear what the result is from invoking the clause in 2020. It may well be meaningless.



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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: $tevie
Date: March 12, 2019 02:05PM
I listened to BBC World Service Newsday last night and even some folks that live in the UK are confused, so I don't feel too badly about not totally getting it.



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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: voodoopenguin
Date: March 12, 2019 02:07PM
Quote
$tevie
I listened to BBC World Service Newsday last night and even some folks that live in the UK are confused, so I don't feel too badly about not totally getting it.

I would change "even some" to the vast majority.

Paul



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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: mattkime
Date: March 12, 2019 02:27PM
Its a dumpster fire, we're just not sure what _kind_ of dumpster fire.



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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: numbered
Date: March 12, 2019 03:23PM
Just saw a nice summary from Buzzfeed of the choices now:

Senior EU official tells me UK now has 3 options:

1) leave with no deal on March 29

2) ask for extension (dependent on reason, length & EU27 unanimity)

3) revoke article 50

“There will be no further talks,” the source says.
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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: bfd
Date: March 12, 2019 04:13PM
A primer: [www.bbc.com]

Doesn't seem like much has changed except that there will be no further talks. Same options as before. All come with some level of consequence.

The possibility of a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is worth deeper thought on their part as it could reignite centuries of troubles.
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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: max
Date: March 12, 2019 04:58PM
Quote
numbered
Just saw a nice summary from Buzzfeed of the choices now:

Senior EU official tells me UK now has 3 options:

Summation:
it is a British problem, not ours...




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution;
one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: Speedy
Date: March 12, 2019 05:54PM
Brexit vote: British Parliament overwhelmingly rejects Theresa May’s plan, diminishing chance of withdrawal on March 29

[www.washingtonpost.com]

Three years after Britain voted to leave the European Union, lawmakers have failed to agree on how to do it.

Parliament overwhelmingly rejected Prime Minister Theresa May’s revised Brexit deal on Tuesday in a vote of 391 to 242.

Last-minute negotiations with the E.U. were not enough to secure the support of hardliners in the prime minister’s own Conservative Party — 75 Tories voted against their leader.

The total loss, by 149 ballots, was not as embarrassing for May and her government as when Parliament originally rejected the withdrawal deal by a historic margin of 230 votes in January. But with just over two weeks before the Brexit deadline, the options for what to do now are limited.

Parliament will vote Wednesday on whether to leave the E.U. on schedule, on March 29, without a deal — a scenario that could create economic havoc for Britain and, to lesser degree, Europe.

Boris Johnson, the former foreign secretary and a leading Brexiteer, argued in favor of a no-deal Brexit on Tuesday. While acknowledging “that is in the short term the more difficult road,” he said, “In the end it’s the only safe route out of the abyss and the only safe path to self-respect.”

But there doesn’t seem to be the stomach in Parliament for it. More likely, lawmakers will push to keep trying for a managed withdrawal. In that case, they will vote Thursday on whether to request a delay from leaders of the E.U.’s remaining 27 member states.

European leaders have suggested they would grant an delay, but have warned that their patience is not infinite.

E.U. leaders “will expect a credible justification for a possible extension and its duration,” said a spokesman for European Council President Donald Tusk. “The smooth functioning of the E.U. institutions will need to be ensured.”

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker told reporters after meeting with May in Strasbourg on Monday night that the E.U. was not willing to reopen talks. “There will be no new negotiations,” he said.

May also seemed to have reached her limit on talks. Her voice was nearly gone when she addressed Parliament after Tuesday’s vote. “I profoundly regret the decision that this House has taken tonight,” she said.

May said Conservative lawmakers would not be whipped to vote one way or another on whether to leave with or without a deal — that Wednesday would be a so-called “free vote,” meaning that lawmakers don’t have to vote along party lines.

If lawmakers embrace the idea of leaving the European Union with no deal, the prime minister said that would become her government’s default position.

But May said that was not her wish, that she and her government wanted “an orderly Brexit.”

May said, “Let me be clear: Voting against leaving without a deal and for an extension does not solve the problems we face. The E.U. will want to know what use we mean to make of such an extension and this House will have to answer that question.”

“Does it wish to revoke Article 50?” May asked the House, meaning no Brexit? “Does it want to hold a second referendum? “ she asked. “Does it want to leave with a deal but not this deal?”

May has said previously that if an extension beyond March 29 were necessary, it would be granted only once by the E.U., and that it shouldn’t go beyond the end of June.

Anti-Brexit lawmakers hope that if Britain’s departure is delayed, momentum will build for a second referendum — a do-over — to ask voters whether they really want to leave.

Although Labour has endorsed a second referendum, there does not appear to be majority support for it in Parliament.

“There isn’t actually evidence that the British people have changed their minds,” May said to lawmakers on Tuesday. “And where would it end? So what? So you have another referendum, and there’s a different result, and then everybody says, well, let’s actually have a third one.”



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: pdq
Date: March 12, 2019 06:08PM
Hold a second referendum. Don't buy wacky promises that Brexit will be easy, like trade wars. Vote remain.

Problem solved.
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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: $tevie
Date: March 12, 2019 06:10PM
I keep hearing that it's not right to hold another referendum because it negates the fact that the people have already spoken. However, I think a lot of the people were fed a big plate of hooey and now they see it for what it was. So I think letting people have another stab at it is quite fair.



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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 12, 2019 06:33PM
^^ You’d have to first ask them if they wanted to vote again. A majority might just say nope. And if they didn’t say nope, it would eliminate the question (and whining later) of a new official vote.
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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: pdq
Date: March 12, 2019 07:06PM
That would be fine, or, just put reality to a referendum:

Should we crash out of the EU in a no-deal Brexit, or call the whole thing off?

That would be a realistic choice, and if people still think Brexit is a good idea, they wouldn't have any right to whinge about the result if they've voted for it then.
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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: $tevie
Date: March 12, 2019 08:52PM
My cousin pointed me to this article, which I think gives a better explanation than most anything else I've read:
[www.irishtimes.com]



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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: March 12, 2019 10:00PM
I think one formidable issue is that most reasonable people are truly sick of hearing about it and it would be a battle to get them to the polls for a second referendum. The people that want to leave are more fanatic and will be more likely to turn out.



In tha 360. [url=Zee Maps Now requires a subscription/payment to work]MRF User Map[/url]
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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: March 12, 2019 11:12PM
Quote
$tevie
My cousin pointed me to this article, which I think gives a better explanation than most anything else I've read:
[www.irishtimes.com]

excellent info, thank you
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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: max
Date: March 13, 2019 09:06AM
Quote
$tevie
I think a lot of the people were fed a big plate of hooey and now they see it for what it was.

That is one of the most idiotic excuses for making bad decisions.
Yes, you should bear consequences for your own ignorance, stupidity and being too lazy to learn about issues involved.....




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution;
one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: $tevie
Date: March 13, 2019 05:28PM
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Re: Big Brexit news coming soon. Please post if you understand it.
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: March 15, 2019 04:06PM




In tha 360. [url=Zee Maps Now requires a subscription/payment to work]MRF User Map[/url]
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