AAPL stock: Click Here |
|
Tips and Deals ---- For Sale & Free Items ---- 'Friendly' Political Ranting |
How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: pdq
Date: March 20, 2019 11:47PM
|
Quote
New Zealand has banned military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced Thursday, just six days after attacks on two mosques in Christchurch that left 50 people dead.
“On 15 March our history changed forever. Now, our laws will, too,” Ardern said. “We are announcing action today on behalf of all New Zealanders to strengthen our gun laws and make our country a safer place.”
Quote
New Zealand has a tradition of hunting and shooting as sport, but....Ardern has said there is no reason for New Zealanders to own these kinds of weapons, and there is broad general consensus on this.
...The changes mean that the assault weapons will now be removed from circulation.
After the return period has passed, those who continue to own these weapons will be liable for a $2,700 fine or up to three years imprisonment.
Quote
The center-right opposition National Party supported the ban, with its leader, Simon Bridges, saying it was “imperative in the national interest to keep New Zealanders safe.”
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Speedy
Date: March 21, 2019 01:47AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Mr645
Date: March 21, 2019 06:53AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: sekker
Date: March 21, 2019 07:41AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: March 21, 2019 08:02AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Acer
Date: March 21, 2019 08:11AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Mr645
Date: March 21, 2019 08:15AM
|
Quote
Acer
Plane? Heavy security. Years of planning to circumvent security. A thousand eyes watch your every move in an airport.
Knife? Hammer? Slingshot? All deadly, but too inefficient to kill more than a dozen before someone fights back or authorities arrive.
Bomb? Non-trivial technical expertise, accomplices and access to significant amounts of material to hurt more than a few.
Truck? You can kill a lot of people, but only momentarily, and limited to certain venues. Can't drive one through a building or onto a plane. Preventable with concrete.
Gun? With one paycheck you can buy enough hardware and ammunition at Walmart to kill dozens in minutes at any local gathering place with or without a door--school, church, supermarket, nightclub, street festival. If one is guarded, just go on to the next. No expertise, no accomplices, no planning required, though planning and practice at the shooting range may increase your yield.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 21, 2019 08:21AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 21, 2019 08:24AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: March 21, 2019 08:30AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: March 21, 2019 08:33AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 21, 2019 08:53AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: March 21, 2019 09:07AM
|
Quote
Speedy
Yes, but the president wants to keep our military, police and biker gangs heavily armed in case he doesn’t get re-elected in 2024. Plus, of course, the Russian funded NRA must keep its members armed to the teeth to aid our military in defense of Pres. Trump.
Quote
Speedy
Quote
cbelt3
Panic merged with insanity.
Remember who actually 'owns' the most powerful weapons in the country ? The DOD.
Remember who has decided that King Cheeto is not someone they want to work for ? The DOD.
Remember who will refuse an unlawful order ? The DOD.
Yup.
Quote
Speedy
The right wing-nuts are mostly cowards. Lots of light weapons but they will turn tail when confronted by the local constabulary. They were all up in arms during the teabagger movement which the Republican Party crushed without firing a shot.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Mr645
Date: March 21, 2019 09:20AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: March 21, 2019 09:59AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Ted King
Date: March 21, 2019 10:33AM
|
Quote
cbelt3
I'm comfortable with a general ban on weapons capable of rapidly loading and firing more than 5 rounds. I find the comparison with hunting weapons to be uninformed. You see. hunting weapons are legally restricted from loading and firing more than a specific number of rounds. Laws vary on a state by state basis. That's right. You can't load more than 3-5 rounds to hunt animals. Hunting humans ? No limit.
People running around in with tricked out semi automatic rifles with huge magazines are not hunters. They are wannabe murderers.
And FWIW- I own guns. Only one semi-automatic, and that's a target pistol. Magazine capacity is 10 rounds. Of .22. And when I used to hunt the rule was one bullet, one kill. Blazing away like a maniac is for amateurs.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 21, 2019 10:49AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: March 21, 2019 11:09AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: testcase
Date: March 21, 2019 11:14AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: JoeH
Date: March 21, 2019 11:32AM
|
Quote
testcase
More whataboutism on two exceptional cases in a period of over two decades
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Acer
Date: March 21, 2019 11:38AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: March 21, 2019 11:47AM
|
Quote
testcase
I find it strange that people want to ban firearms to "save lives" are silent re carnage on roadways that kill FAR more people every year. Oh wait, they drive and don't want to be hassled with silly laws and restrictions that could surely reduce that carnage.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: March 21, 2019 12:01PM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: March 21, 2019 12:42PM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: March 21, 2019 01:25PM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: $tevie
Date: March 21, 2019 02:08PM
|
The arguments against banning particular weapons are always ALWAYS specious. Thank you for pointing this out.Quote
deckeda
It’s about convenience and opportunity. Ya wanna pick the best tool for the job, right? It’s no fun toting hunting rifles around town. Which is why they are not really chosen for that. More to the point, their greater power makes them LESS effective for mass shootings.
Any gun ban is about making it harder to kill people with ease. When mass shootings become the norm with hunting rifles, knives, planes, ball point pens, broken glass, and cold stares, those all might face scrutiny.
Until then, STOP pretending any of that is a serious threat. It’s fantasy whataboutism to pretend any random toaster ... completely able to electrocute anyone ... is a REASONABLE tool for the job.
And when Austrialians and New Zealanders get mowed down with knives and planes, we can talk.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 21, 2019 02:40PM
|
Quote
Acer
... Why isn't Australia a wasteland of crashed planes and nightclub arson?
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: sekker
Date: March 21, 2019 03:01PM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: March 21, 2019 03:49PM
|
Quote
Speedy
Yes, but the president wants to keep our military, police and biker gangs heavily armed in case he doesn’t get re-elected in 2024. Plus, of course, the Russian funded NRA must keep its members armed to the teeth to aid our military in defense of Pres. Trump.
Quote
deckeda
But pretending that a specific model should be banned based on how it looks seems stupid to me and draws attention away from real solutions.
It helps to start somewhere, and a hugely popular gun that flat out sucks for hunting is a reasonable start. Or, we can wait for a perfect solution to magically appear on its own.
Quote
Mr645
But several small caliber (.223) hunting rifles use the same exact magazines as the AR-15. There is a limit on magazine capacity for semi auto shotguns, but not rifles. You can buy 30, 50 or even 100 round magazines for many semi auto rifles. But these are never used in these mass murder events
Quote
cbelt3
Ted- I like it.
OOh... you need weapons for hunting ? OK... all weapons that can NOT be used for hunting are now banned. Of course these laws are at a state level.
And.. anyone that is using a rifle for 'home defense' is a complete and utter maniac. Rifle rounds will go right through your walls and kill your family. Shotgun with bird shot is best, handgun with fragmentation safety slugs is next. And... if you expect to be attacked by the Mexican Cartels, maybe you should a) move. b) stop dealing drugs.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 21, 2019 04:58PM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Mr645
Date: March 22, 2019 06:34AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Mr645
Date: March 22, 2019 06:36AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: March 22, 2019 09:03AM
|
Quote
Mr645
"As for why the assault rifle (AR-15 type) is the gun of choice for mass murders in the US, gun experts say it's simply because they are easy to use and accurate, and there is a copy cat factor going on. These weapons are closely aligned with violent fantasies in ways that other weapons are not. No they are not the most powerful rifles out there."
Actually hand guns are the choice for mass shootings. Hand guns are used 3 times more often than Semi auto rifles, including the AR-15 style rifles.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Z
Date: March 22, 2019 10:33AM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: JoeH
Date: March 22, 2019 11:13AM
|
Quote
Mr645
Actually hand guns are the choice for mass shootings. Hand guns are used 3 times more often than Semi auto rifles, including the AR-15 style rifles.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Acer
Date: March 22, 2019 12:02PM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 22, 2019 12:16PM
|
Quote
Acer
There's no established definition of "mass shooting." I will wager that the lower you make the threshold the more handguns you get in the stats.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: March 22, 2019 12:19PM
|
Quote
Mr645
Actually hand guns are the choice for mass shootings.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: March 22, 2019 12:29PM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: pdq
Date: March 22, 2019 01:43PM
|
Quote
Lemon Drop
A combination of gun responsibility measures have been proven to reduce gun deaths while still preserving the right to own a gun if you want to. Just need lawmakers with the smarts, courage and compassion to get it done.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: March 22, 2019 03:45PM
|
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Mr645
Date: March 25, 2019 07:02AM
|
Quote
JoeH
Quote
Mr645
Actually hand guns are the choice for mass shootings. Hand guns are used 3 times more often than Semi auto rifles, including the AR-15 style rifles.
You keep saying this, where do you get this statistic from? Stats from the last decade or so don't appear to support your statement.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: Mr645
Date: March 25, 2019 07:03AM
|
Quote
Acer
There's no established definition of "mass shooting." I will wager that the lower you make the threshold the more handguns you get in the stats.
Re: How tragedies result in good things in *other* countries
Posted by: JoeH
Date: March 25, 2019 10:07AM
|
Quote
Mr645
Quote
JoeH
Quote
Mr645
Actually hand guns are the choice for mass shootings. Hand guns are used 3 times more often than Semi auto rifles, including the AR-15 style rifles.
You keep saying this, where do you get this statistic from? Stats from the last decade or so don't appear to support your statement.
[www.statista.com]