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WH tried to tell DHS to release migrants onto streets of small and mid-sized sanctuary cities
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 12, 2019 09:42AM
[www.nytimes.com]

Also trying to fire the DHS attorney who told them "no." In addition to this being illegal and immoral, DHS doesn't have the budget, authority or capacity to transport people in this manner.

It's hard to see how anyone with a conscience could work for immigration services now, while this administration tries to cruelly use vulnerable men, women and children as pawns, for political purposes.
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Re: WH tried to tell DHS to release migrants onto streets of small and mid-sized sanctuary cities
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 12, 2019 10:51AM
It's important for us to understand how and why people with consciences work for immigration services now.

In moments of crisis like this, it's especially important to remember that the administration is implementing illegal and inhumane policies using cruel and dangerous practices, but it's using everyday government employees to do it.

My parents were government employees. My partner is a government employee. I know many more people in public service who have served in administrations past and present, and dealt with vastly different policies backed by radically different ideologies. There are enormous tensions in agencies and jobs where your work has serious and material consequences for other real, live people - because in very few cases is it possible just to stop work, or resign in protest, or to raise the Moral Justice flag and lead a successful revolt from within.

Our civil service is predicated on a system of checks and balances that should insulate non-political, career civil servants from these moral traps. The border needs employees with consciences, but it also needs employees who are competent. I think that we will see more whistleblowing as this goes on, and it's really important for the rest of us to stick up for those people. It's also important for us to remember that the public servants who object to these policies but continue to work may be doing so not because they are morally weak, but because they know how much worse it could be with a loyalist in their place.

This is complicated stuff. I'm not offering an apologia for those who commit abuse, separate families, etc. There are things we must not do, and everyone must choose where that line is, and be accountable for their actions. We do still have laws, if the courts will enforce them (so far, okay - but that may change).

We need to remember that this is an escalation of what our Border Patrol, ICE, and USCIS have been doing for several years, in waves of enforcement under the last two and current administrations. Many of these employees are probably acculturated to a level of inhumanity that we might find stomach-turning. We, collectively, have created this situation over time - it's not a strictly partisan problem and we can't escape it by running to moral high ground.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: WH tried to tell DHS to release migrants onto streets of small and mid-sized sanctuary cities
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 12, 2019 11:02AM
It also takes a lot of people who "just follow orders" to make these things happen.

That's how the policy initiative outlined in the OP got defeated before it was ever enacted. Somebody was willing to say no.

I'd love it if more people spoke up about this, or refused "orders." I think that's important.
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Re: WH tried to tell DHS to release migrants onto streets of small and mid-sized sanctuary cities
Posted by: deckeda
Date: April 12, 2019 11:19AM
Everything about this administration is about not enough people saying "no." What's different about Trump is that he demands every person take a clear stand on yes vs no. There's no middle ground.
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Re: WH tried to tell DHS to release migrants onto streets of small and mid-sized sanctuary cities
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 12, 2019 11:37AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
It also takes a lot of people who "just follow orders" to make these things happen.

That's how the policy initiative outlined in the OP got defeated before it was ever enacted. Somebody was willing to say no.

I'd love it if more people spoke up about this, or refused "orders." I think that's important.

You're absolutely right, LD. I think it's a lot fairer to ask and expect folks like Matthew Albence, a career civil servant in the Senior Executive Service (and currently Acting Director of ICE), to take the risk of refusing an order than it is to ask much more vulnerable front-line staff to do so.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: WH tried to tell DHS to release migrants onto streets of small and mid-sized sanctuary cities
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 12, 2019 11:39AM
Quote
deckeda
Everything about this administration is about not enough people saying "no." What's different about Trump is that he demands every person take a clear stand on yes vs no. There's no middle ground.

I'm not sure what you're basing this on, but I know lots of people working for the federal government under "this administration," and nobody is coming through with loyalty oaths for every civil servant.

Edit: perhaps you just mean appointees and senior-level staff? It's important to distinguish between political and non-political positions inside the federal government.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 11:40AM by rjmacs.
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Re: WH tried to tell DHS to release migrants onto streets of small and mid-sized sanctuary cities
Posted by: bfd
Date: April 12, 2019 01:54PM
As to the sanctuary cities and states, we can pretty well bet that most Dumbfsters are standing solidly behind 'dumping' these 'illegals' on them.

As it is, here in the far southwest corner, that's pretty much business as usual… and guess what? We're still here and so are they. It's another dog-whistle for the Dumbf Dynasty to blow… the liberal media to get all worked up about, and the faux news networks to gloat about. None of it does one thing to help move the issue to some kind of solution.

And that's what really needs to happen if we're going to MAGA… did we really think that Europe was the only place that migration would occur? Dumbf Americans…
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Re: WH tried to tell DHS to release migrants onto streets of small and mid-sized sanctuary cities
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 12, 2019 03:24PM
It's true that the current situation was forecast easily 20 years ago. George W Bush tried to do something pro-active in 2007 along with Sens. McCain, Kennedy and Kyl, but was rebuffed by Congress. And we haven't done much better since. We're obviously doing a lot worse now.
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Re: WH tried to tell DHS to release migrants onto streets of small and mid-sized sanctuary cities
Posted by: vision63
Date: April 12, 2019 08:18PM
The only thing holding our democracy is the thing we once all complained about.

Bureaucracy.

I have friends that work for the FCC, USDA, CDC, HUD etc., and their efforts to fulfill the slow grind of government morass is a very effective form of resistance.
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Re: WH tried to tell DHS to release migrants onto streets of small and mid-sized sanctuary cities
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: April 12, 2019 09:10PM
Quote
vision63
The only thing holding our democracy is the thing we once all complained about.

Bureaucracy.

I have friends that work for the FCC, USDA, CDC, HUD etc., and their efforts to fulfill the slow grind of government morass is a very effective form of resistance.

Too few people understand this point. It's why when heads of agencies are switched out, it takes (sometimes) a long while for substantive changes to take place, as the worker bees are who keep their respective agencies running. Budgets are a way to strangle projects, for sure, but lacking that, it is often "business as usual."
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Re: WH tried to tell DHS to release migrants onto streets of small and mid-sized sanctuary cities
Posted by: vision63
Date: April 13, 2019 04:32AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
vision63
The only thing holding our democracy is the thing we once all complained about.

Bureaucracy.

I have friends that work for the FCC, USDA, CDC, HUD etc., and their efforts to fulfill the slow grind of government morass is a very effective form of resistance.

Too few people understand this point. It's why when heads of agencies are switched out, it takes (sometimes) a long while for substantive changes to take place, as the worker bees are who keep their respective agencies running. Budgets are a way to strangle projects, for sure, but lacking that, it is often "business as usual."

Indeed. I'm thankful for it. We need good people to keep working in these agencies and in the White House.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2019 04:34AM by vision63.
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Re: WH tried to tell DHS to release migrants onto streets of small and mid-sized sanctuary cities
Posted by: max
Date: April 14, 2019 07:12PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
vision63
The only thing holding our democracy is the thing we once all complained about.

Bureaucracy.

I have friends that work for the FCC, USDA, CDC, HUD etc., and their efforts to fulfill the slow grind of government morass is a very effective form of resistance.

Too few people understand this point. It's why when heads of agencies are switched out, it takes (sometimes) a long while for substantive changes to take place, as the worker bees are who keep their respective agencies running. Budgets are a way to strangle projects, for sure, but lacking that, it is often "business as usual."

Now you boyz are getting it....




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution;
one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
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