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I will pardon you
Posted by: samintx
Date: April 12, 2019 03:05PM
Said to acting HS if he was ever jailed for immigration problems not sticking to the law.

So people break any laws you want. A pardon is RollingEyesSmiley5waiting



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 03:06PM by samintx.
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: steve...
Date: April 12, 2019 03:54PM
He also said he would pay legal bills for people assaulting protestors at his rallies.




Northern California Coast
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: Ted King
Date: April 12, 2019 04:29PM
Of course, there will now follow a bunch of "what he meant was...", "He was kidding...", etc. from his BS brigade but this probably won't be the end of it for Trump. It's pretty clear that he doesn't care about the law except for when it works for him so the idea of being able to tell some underling to break the law so that he gets what he wants and then he'll pardon them is really appealing. He just has to find a way to get these peons to understand his code so he can tell them to break the law without actually explicitly telling them to break the law and tell them that he will give them a pardon without explicitly telling them he would pardon them.
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: hal
Date: April 12, 2019 06:05PM
I suddenly have this song stuck in my head...

I will pardon him...

...pardon him wherever he may gooooo...
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 12, 2019 06:49PM
Quote
Ted King
Of course, there will now follow a bunch of "what he meant was...", "He was kidding...", etc. from his BS brigade but this probably won't be the end of it for Trump. It's pretty clear that he doesn't care about the law except for when it works for him so the idea of being able to tell some underling to break the law so that he gets what he wants and then he'll pardon them is really appealing. He just has to find a way to get these peons to understand his code so he can tell them to break the law without actually explicitly telling them to break the law and tell them that he will give them a pardon without explicitly telling them he would pardon them.

Mutatis mutandis, given that no one in AG Barr's Justice Department is likely to be investigating such petty matters to begin with. It would be the FBI's job, wouldn't it - to investigate a crime?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: April 12, 2019 07:17PM

Good to see everyone's in agreement in the Trump gang



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 07:20PM by Steve G..
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: April 12, 2019 08:56PM
The issue that no one is (unsurprisingly) talking about is once a president takes an unchallenged action, future presidents will see no reason they can not do the same. If Trump is allowed to pardon individuals for purposely breaking the law, it is a given that future presidents will do likewise.

The worse damage done by this administration is not its immediate actions, but the damage done to our establishment from this point forward.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: Ted King
Date: April 12, 2019 09:57PM
Quote
Ombligo
The issue that no one is (unsurprisingly) talking about is once a president takes an unchallenged action, future presidents will see no reason they can not do the same. If Trump is allowed to pardon individuals for purposely breaking the law, it is a given that future presidents will do likewise.

The worse damage done by this administration is not its immediate actions, but the damage done to our establishment from this point forward.

Functionally it's the same as the notion that if the president does it, it's legal (as Tricky Dick said). It's not that him doing it makes it legal, it's just that the law doesn't matter. If this were to become a precedent that is not successfully challenged, then it would functionally be the end of the rule of law applying to the president over a very broad swath of issues. Not checked or balanced.
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 13, 2019 01:42AM
Banana Republic. I live in a Banana Republic.
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: wave rider
Date: April 13, 2019 03:51AM
Quote
hal
I suddenly have this song stuck in my head...

I will pardon him...

...pardon him wherever he may gooooo...

I do too!!!



=wr=
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: April 13, 2019 11:30AM
Quote
sekker
Banana Republic. I live in a Banana Republic.

As noted by others in an earlier thread, the term “banana republic” does not accurately apply here, as the fundamental, defining characteristics are not present.

“In political science, the term banana republic describes a politically unstable country with an economy dependent upon the exportation of a limited-resource product, such as bananas or minerals.”

Here we’re seeing only the less specific circumstances that can exist in many clearly non-“banana republics”:
- collusion between an administration and favored businesses
- increasing rule by plutocrats (and kleptocrats)
- increasingly stratified social classes
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: bfd
Date: April 13, 2019 01:08PM
What we're seeing is an Idiocracy in action …

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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 14, 2019 12:20AM
Sorry to misuse the term!

Maybe kleptocracy is better.
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: max
Date: April 14, 2019 09:04PM
Quote
sekker
Sorry to misuse the term!

Maybe kleptocracy is better.
Seeing the light a bit late, sekker?
Again.


Thank you, Bill Clinton....




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution;
one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2019 09:06PM by max.
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 15, 2019 03:43AM
Quote
max
Quote
sekker
Sorry to misuse the term!

Maybe kleptocracy is better.
Seeing the light a bit late, sekker?
Again.


Thank you, Bill Clinton....

?? You sure have a strange view, max - Reagan's admin was far worse the Clinton. However, by every criteria, the current admin has now passed the most corrupt admin in US history (President US Grant from the 1800s).
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: April 15, 2019 08:08AM
The key here is that a seated president cannot pardon himself. By ordering his subordinates to violate the law, Trump is therefore conducting a criminal conspiracy. His only option at that point would be to pull a Nixon and have President Pence pardon him after his resignation.
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 15, 2019 09:41AM
Quote
cbelt3
The key here is that a seated president cannot pardon himself. By ordering his subordinates to violate the law, Trump is therefore conducting a criminal conspiracy. His only option at that point would be to pull a Nixon and have President Pence pardon him after his resignation.

That has no bearing on whether he can pardon others, though. And you still need a Congress that will impeach and convict him if you want him to be held accountable for his illegal acts.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: $tevie
Date: April 15, 2019 10:16AM
The President has always been able to pardon people who purposely broke the law. That’s not the issue. The issue is that this President is telling someone to go ahead and break the law.

The huge problem is that previous considerations in decades past of whether or not a sitting President could be indicted were conducted under the assumption that a President who was suspected of high crimes and misdemeanors would be impeached and then tried by the Senate. A criminal President would be removed from office and then indicted. Nobody foresaw a situation where the President’s party would function as criminal accomplices. At this rate we will end up in a place where a President could walk down the street shooting people and his party can prevent any action being taken by law enforcement.

Someone needs to indict Trump for something so that we can begin the slow climb to the Supreme Court.



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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 16, 2019 11:05AM
Quote
$tevie
The President has always been able to pardon people who purposely broke the law. That’s not the issue. The issue is that this President is telling someone to go ahead and break the law.

The huge problem is that previous considerations in decades past of whether or not a sitting President could be indicted were conducted under the assumption that a President who was suspected of high crimes and misdemeanors would be impeached and then tried by the Senate. A criminal President would be removed from office and then indicted. Nobody foresaw a situation where the President’s party would function as criminal accomplices. At this rate we will end up in a place where a President could walk down the street shooting people and his party can prevent any action being taken by law enforcement.

Someone needs to indict Trump for something so that we can begin the slow climb to the Supreme Court.

I honestly doubt that.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: max
Date: April 17, 2019 02:36AM
Quote
sekker
Quote
max
Quote
sekker
Sorry to misuse the term!

Maybe kleptocracy is better.
Seeing the light a bit late, sekker?
Again.


Thank you, Bill Clinton....

?? You sure have a strange view, max - Reagan's admin was far worse the Clinton. .

Sure it is strange, sekker, in your revisionist version of history it was Reagan that got rid of Glass-Steagall Act, building a new shining stage for kleptocracy for the coming decades...
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Re: I will pardon you
Posted by: $tevie
Date: April 19, 2019 04:07PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
$tevie
The President has always been able to pardon people who purposely broke the law. That’s not the issue. The issue is that this President is telling someone to go ahead and break the law.

The huge problem is that previous considerations in decades past of whether or not a sitting President could be indicted were conducted under the assumption that a President who was suspected of high crimes and misdemeanors would be impeached and then tried by the Senate. A criminal President would be removed from office and then indicted. Nobody foresaw a situation where the President’s party would function as criminal accomplices. At this rate we will end up in a place where a President could walk down the street shooting people and his party can prevent any action being taken by law enforcement.

Someone needs to indict Trump for something so that we can begin the slow climb to the Supreme Court.

I honestly doubt that.
I should have been more clear. "Nobody" was the folks back in the 1700s.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2019 04:08PM by $tevie.
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