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House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: May 10, 2019 04:10PM
remember, this is still Chapter 11. Things are gliding towards a really big blowout.

House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
[thehill.com]

House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal (D-Mass.) on Friday announced that he has issued subpoenas for six years of President Trump’s tax returns, House Democrats' latest effort to obtain the returns.

Neal said that he issued the subpoenas to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig. The subpoenas direct the officials to send the information to the House panel by 5 p.m. on May 17.

"After reviewing the options available to me, and upon the advice of counsel, I issued subpoenas today to the Secretary of the Treasury and the Commissioner of the IRS for six years of personal and business returns," Neal said in a statement.

"While I do not take this step lightly, I believe this action gives us the best opportunity to succeed and obtain the requested material. I sincerely hope that the Treasury Department will furnish the requested material in the next week so the committee can quickly begin its work.”

The announcement comes days after Mnuchin rejected Neal’s request, first made April 3, for Trump’s personal and business tax returns from 2013 to 2018.

Neal made that request under section 6103(f) of the federal tax code, which states that the Treasury Secretary “shall furnish” tax returns requested by a chair of a congressional tax committee, so long as the documents are viewed in a closed session.

When Mnuchin denied the request on Monday, he said that it lacked a legitimate legislative purpose. But Democrats disagree with that argument.

Neal’s request said that the Ways and Means Committee is interested in legislative proposals and oversight relating to how the IRS audits and enforces tax laws against a president. But Mnuchin said in a letter to Neal last month that he thinks Democrats’ goal is to obtain Trump’s tax returns “for the sake of exposure.”

Neal said Friday that he believes "that reviewing the requested documents is a necessary piece of the committee’s work."
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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 10, 2019 04:34PM
I think this provides Democrats with a good ram to punch a hole in Trump's stonewall. The law is as clear as it could be and Neal has made sure that what he is asking for is well grounded.

I heard a pundit earlier today say that we should impeach Sec. of Treasury Mnuchin for not complying with an unambiguously legal subpoena from the House Ways and Means Committee Chairman. To my mind, I wouldn't do that right now, but there is absolutely nothing stopping the House Democrats (and hopefully a few Republicans) from such an impeachment if they want to do it. Of course, it would still go to trial and the Republicans would probably cower to Trump and not throw Mnuchin out of office, but I don't imagine the Republicans in the Senate would want to have to go through a trial where the defendant is clearly guilty of thumbing his nose at legitimate Congressional prerogatives and then have to vote not to convict.

In the meantime, I'm okay with trying to methodically work at getting more people to accept that Trump should be removed from office. Requests then subpoenas then contempt citations and then impeachment of Cabinet Secretaries that are doing the stonewalling for Trump. Or Trump can hand over the information and then we'll have a fuller accounting of the facts and draw conclusions from there.

And as more information comes to the fore - like Trump's tax returns - that may contribute toward more acceptance among persuadable people that Trump should be impeached.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2019 04:43PM by Ted King.
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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: May 10, 2019 04:46PM
I fully expect the returns that are turned over will be 1040EZ's with claims that they are the real returns.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 10, 2019 04:48PM
Ted- agreed.

“Shall provide” (the tax returns the House requests) is the language in law, and that’s about as clear as it gets. If that went to the Supremes and they didn’t agree, then we’ve got real problems in this country.
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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: AllGold
Date: May 10, 2019 07:12PM
Regarding Mnuchin refusing because "the request lacked legislative purpose," Stephen Colbert joked about the constitution: “All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States … unless some doofus by the name of Steve doesn’t like it.”



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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 10, 2019 08:20PM
“ but I don't imagine the Republicans in the Senate would want to have to go through a trial where the defendant is clearly guilty of thumbing his nose at legitimate Congressional prerogatives and then have to vote not to convict.”

Ted,
Of course they wouldn’t convict. They’re already saying how this is all about trying to make Trump look bad. Democrats do this for appearances, didn’t you know? See, it’s Trump who’s the victim (as usual) not Congress! After all, they can’t lose power and authority they don’t want.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2019 08:21PM by deckeda.
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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: vision63
Date: May 10, 2019 10:53PM
Quote
deckeda
“ but I don't imagine the Republicans in the Senate would want to have to go through a trial where the defendant is clearly guilty of thumbing his nose at legitimate Congressional prerogatives and then have to vote not to convict.”

Ted,
Of course they wouldn’t convict. They’re already saying how this is all about trying to make Trump look bad. Democrats do this for appearances, didn’t you know? See, it’s Trump who’s the victim (as usual) not Congress! After all, they can’t lose power and authority they don’t want.

The secondary part of it is to permanently damage him and his brand. To the greatest extent possible, destroy him, then salt his earth. He's earned and deserves this.

I do not hate him believe it or not. This would actually be good for him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2019 02:40AM by vision63.
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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: sekker
Date: May 10, 2019 11:22PM
Lie, deny, delay

We will see
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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 11, 2019 08:23AM
I think his lawyers will keep these requests for documents and subpoenas tied up in court for at least as long as we have until the election. Even if he loses in Court, which will likely be years down the road, he'll claim the judges are Democrats who are out to get him. Democrats just look weak for chasing paper long after the case for removal has been clearly laid out. Congress so far is showing no will to use the only tool is has in the toolbox: impeachment.

I don't think we have any other Constitutional solution for this administration's defiance of Congress. We're at the mercy of easily manipulated voters and an electoral system that currently favors Republicans. The framers did not foresee this situation and we are unprotected; checks and balances have failed.

An unfettered second term Donald Trump will be a menace to everything we hold dear, completely free of oversight and accountability.
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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: May 11, 2019 03:28PM
Impeachment will be just as lame as everything else. He will be impeached, the Senate will kill it, and then what?
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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 11, 2019 05:01PM
Impeachment can be several things, all of them risky and severe.

—- you impeach to prove your bonafides to your base (this is ineffective and stupid, see also 1998.)

—- you impeach because the asshat in the Oval Office is a crook (this is just, see also 1974.)

There’s a 3rd scenario we’re likely in, which is more partisan and would require more public feedback for Congress to interpret any evidence as criminal or whatever. The challenge of compelling evidence remains as ever.

In 1998, it was not a lock that Senate Democrats would exonerate. Circumstances were different, when semen on a dress and a lie about it got everyone twisted up. Today, the lies flow like rain, and about far more serious things, and there’s hardly a Congressional peep. Indeed, prior to the election Trump’s supporters were already saying, “listen to what’s in his heart, not what he literally says.” After the election it became, “gosh, give him a chance.” That’s not just dangerous, it cannot be fought against. That’s a power play, a belief system.

Just as with voting for someone you’ve got to know what people will vote against, where the hot buttons are.
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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 11, 2019 06:53PM
"you impeach to prove your bonafides to your base (this is ineffective and stupid, see also 1998.) "

I haven't heard anyone suggest this as the basis for impeachment of Donald Trump. The basis would be failure to follow the law.

Also, Bill Clinton broke the law and it was legally correct that he was impeached. His law license was suspended when he left office. He paid close to $1M in fines and settlements over perjury and harassment lawsuits. ($850K went to Paula Jones)

In today's climate a President would be forced to resign if caught in such behavior while in office, which is also correct.

Failing to address the current president's illegal behavior as outlined in detail by the Mueller report means that he is effectively above the law while in office. No accountability. That is not what the people who wrote our Constitution intended, but they didn't foresee a person as corrupt or contemptuous of the law as Donald Trump.

Leaving it to voters is a cop out and the highest risk option.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2019 06:53PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 11, 2019 08:06PM
I said voters will give their input, as they always have, during any potential impeachment, and that interpretation of the evidence still matters. If anything, the feedback loop has closed a bit with social media and faster news cycles. Grace you know that's not "leaving it up to voters."

As for seemingly wanting impeachment "yesterday," I'd far rather whatever evidence can be gathered happens fully first, for a stronger case, wouldn't you? Isn't that what everyone is still trying to do?

But when it comes to Trump not letting the full report and data be let loose, then yeah that in and of itself is obstruction even if the report had shown none. That's what you call stupid irony, but we are talking about Trump here. "Self impeachment" -- Pelosi knows that given enough rope he'll do her work for her, and every day he puts more gas on his own fire.


"you impeach to prove your bonafides to your base (this is ineffective and stupid, see also 1998.) "

I haven't heard anyone suggest this as the basis for impeachment of Donald Trump. ...


Me neither, which is why I referenced the year I did. smiling smiley Remember how rabid Gingrich and crew were? How Starr threatened Lewinsky and her family? Do you think Starr was distraught over what happened to Hillary?

I have the very strong suspicion that Clinton's obstruction of justice isn't really what some folks were irked about WHEN you consider what he lied about. Clinton wasn't impeached directly over a sex scandal, but indirectly he sure was.

And if we're gonna say it doesn't matter what he lied about, then we're gonna have to disagree as to the importance of his having had sex outside of marriage. Because I really don't feel cheated there, personally.

On that score, Trump isn't going to be threatened because of an extra-marital affair. His constituents probably already assume (with good reason) he's guilty of that. Do you remember how they brushed off "locker room talk?" Do you think they think he was somehow unmarried when he said what he said?
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Re: House chairman issues subpoenas for Trump's tax returns
Posted by: mattkime
Date: May 12, 2019 12:34PM
Eh, I think the dems should go after the people surrounding Trump as hard as they can and that includes impeachment. I don't think they'll get the enormous benefit of the doubt that trump himself gets. Of course, I'm talking about the people 'in the middle' - obviously Trump diehards will be outraged but they're outraged at the mere existence of liberals.



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