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Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: May 11, 2019 09:39PM
We need some outside sugesstions for the labels.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: TheCaber
Date: May 11, 2019 09:54PM
  • Single-issue fundamentalist Christian
  • Fascist conservative white supremacist
  • "Tea Party" isolationist
  • "I got mine; @#$%& you all" laissez-faire capitalist
  • "Greed is good" neo-trickle-down economiclast
  • Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Lock her up!
  • Stem the tide of brown-skinned immigration violators, rapists, thieves
  • Obama-haters
  • Nazis (see fascists, jingoists, nationalists) and other right-thinking political conservatives

How'd I do?



=TC
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 11, 2019 10:08PM
You forgot the largest group, traditional Republicans-turned-Apologist
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: May 11, 2019 10:36PM
Quote
TheCaber
  • Single-issue fundamentalist Christian
  • Fascist conservative white supremacist
  • "Tea Party" isolationist
  • "I got mine; @#$%& you all" laissez-faire capitalist
  • "Greed is good" neo-trickle-down economiclast
  • Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Lock her up!
  • Stem the tide of brown-skinned immigration violators, rapists, thieves
  • Obama-haters
  • Nazis (see fascists, jingoists, nationalists) and other right-thinking political conservatives

How'd I do?

Just getting warmed up.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 11, 2019 10:43PM
Quote
TheCaber
  • Single-issue fundamentalist Christian
  • Fascist conservative white supremacist
  • "Tea Party" isolationist
  • "I got mine; @#$%& you all" laissez-faire capitalist
  • "Greed is good" neo-trickle-down economiclast
  • Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Lock her up!
  • Stem the tide of brown-skinned immigration violators, rapists, thieves
  • Obama-haters
  • Nazis (see fascists, jingoists, nationalists) and other right-thinking political conservatives

How'd I do?

thumbs up
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 11, 2019 11:10PM
People who get their facts from Trump TV Fox News - intersects with a lot of other circles.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2019 11:11PM by Ted King.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: gabester
Date: May 11, 2019 11:39PM
You forgot "Good Ol' Boys" and "Deplorables"... for those who don't fit the other categories.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: May 12, 2019 12:25AM
How granular do you want to get? I would guess there are at least 40 distinct labels you could put on Alt-Reich/Nazi/Klan groups in the US being followed by SPLC. Not too different for preppers/militias like the wingnuts that took over the Malheur refuge. There were at least 20 tea bagger groups, but they were all compromised by one or another SuperPAC (another set of labels by itself). Almost every Republican candidate in 2016 had a different SuperPAC giving them money.

I would guess the Federalist Society could be separated into at least five distinct groups. Ted listed another basic group with lots of discrete elements: Trump TV, Breitbart, InfoWars, etc.



In tha 360. [url=Zee Maps Now requires a subscription/payment to work]MRF User Map[/url]
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: May 12, 2019 12:30AM
Y'all have gone in a different direction than I anticipated, which may be better; I don't know. I was thinking about broader descriptions like ignorant, uneducated, fearful, homophobic, xenophobic, fascist, hate-filled, etc.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 12, 2019 07:51AM
Quote
Dennis S
Y'all have gone in a different direction than I anticipated, which may be better; I don't know. I was thinking about broader descriptions like ignorant, uneducated, fearful, homophobic, xenophobic, fascist, hate-filled, etc.

Fundamentalist Christians - covers several in your list above
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 12, 2019 10:00AM
Quote
gabester
You forgot "Good Ol' Boys" and "Deplorables"... for those who don't fit the other categories.

Out here in the poverty of rural America (and as a life-long suburbanite transplant) I can safely report that the stereotypical "good 'ol boys" can be more diverse than TV shows and Country radio depict.

While I wouldn't call any of them especially progressive, I know there are some.

"Deplorables" remains an accurate descriptor for anyone who's an @#$%& and defiantly proud of it. They decided to double down when they misinterpreted Hillary as being condescending.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 12, 2019 11:11AM
Here's who I think would probably be at the intersection of most of the circles - even if you chose different characteristics than these (like homophobic):

Evangelical, rural, non-college educated, over 50 year old white males.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: steve...
Date: May 12, 2019 11:42AM
Redneck
Bigot




Northern California Coast
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Bernie
Date: May 12, 2019 12:58PM
Categories I fall in/under.

college educated Eastern Mennonite University

over 50 year old white male

Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Lock her up!

Stem the tide of iimmigration violators, rapists, thieves

Obama, I voted for him the first time, only promise he kept was the puppy. It was given to him.






Staunton, Virginia



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2019 07:08PM by Bernie.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: May 12, 2019 05:51PM
<Deleted for being too cynical>



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2019 05:52PM by S. Pupp.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 12, 2019 09:30PM
I know a guy who voted for Obama the first time and has since gone the other way hard for Trump.

There's essentially nothing about that, that makes any sense to me. But one thing's always been curious: what was so wrong with McCain back in 2008 that caused conservatives to stay home or vote for Obama?

Don't tell me it was his running mate. She's positively normal in the context of today.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: May 12, 2019 10:03PM
Quote
deckeda
I know a guy who voted for Obama the first time and has since gone the other way hard for Trump.

There's essentially nothing about that, that makes any sense to me. But one thing's always been curious: what was so wrong with McCain back in 2008 that caused conservatives to stay home or vote for Obama?

Don't tell me it was his running mate. She's positively normal in the context of today.

Talking to people like that will drive you bonkers with the irrationality of their thinking.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 12, 2019 10:41PM
Quote
Dennis S
Quote
deckeda
I know a guy who voted for Obama the first time and has since gone the other way hard for Trump.

There's essentially nothing about that, that makes any sense to me. But one thing's always been curious: what was so wrong with McCain back in 2008 that caused conservatives to stay home or vote for Obama?

Don't tell me it was his running mate. She's positively normal in the context of today.

Talking to people like that will drive you bonkers with the irrationality of their thinking.

What I remember is hearing some vague feeling of, "let's try something different ..." which of course would also apply to voting for Trump later. I suppose if you're bored enough, don't care, exacerbated, or don't understand you'll swing with the breeze.

I'd like to think he was really just being open-minded and thoughtful and ... but no, Obama was "the only Democrat" he ever voted for, and will "never vote Democrat again."

**********************

And then I look at Bernie above, who wanted specific promises? kept by Obama. I suppose that means Trump's promises, even through wildly counter to Obama's, will also be a disappointment since he's not actually doing any actual thing except "Making America Great Again."

And here I was all this time, thinking people voted so as to move the needle, to change course, not literally get 40 acres a mule or whatever.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 13, 2019 07:48AM
....he probably needs an athletic.....supporter.......for sports....



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 13, 2019 09:31AM
Quote
Bernie

Obama, I voted for him the first time, only promise he kept was the puppy. It was given to him.

I'd be interested to know how you reached that conclusion Bernie. Here's a comparison of Obama's promises kept v Trump's promises kept at the two-year mark in their first term.
[www.politifact.com]


And here's how Obama did after 8 years. I think he has a pretty solid track record of delivering on promises to the extent that no President/party gets their way 100% of the time. And he fixed a completely broken economy, one we continue to enjoy.
[www.washingtonpost.com]
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 13, 2019 09:38AM
Unless we hear otherwise from Bernie, it seems that none of that matters to them.

Subjective promises (whatever that means, best phrase I could come with) one or two unsaid two hot-button issues, I don't know. But if I had to speculate, there's at least an equal chance that "hope" and "change" was just so broad it came to mean something unexplainable to some people related to issues they can't or could not articulate.

And so when the vote came due in 2012 they said, "Nope," I don't feel any better about life than I did then." So Obama "lied" to me.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 13, 2019 10:18AM
Supposedly about 12% of people who voted for Obama in 2012 switched to Trump in 2016. To the extent possible it's important for Dems to understand who those voters are and why they switched parties. We know that voters in the industrial midwest felt left out by the recovery and were skeptical of Democratic promises that things would get better, or felt ignored altogether.


It's also interesting that this type of data is not particularly reliable, because it's based on self-reported voter memory of who they voted for many years later, and because not many polling outfits actually track this.

[www.centerforpolitics.org]

9% of voters who chose Obama in 2008 switched to Romney in 2012, and 5% who had been for McCain in 2008 went for Obama in 2012. Most people stick with their party, the people who will switch parties when voting for President are a very small but important minority.

[news.gallup.com]


Currently I think Elizabeth Warren is doing the best job speaking to and about those voters. You won't catch her calling anybody a "deplorable" or saying that they are rejecting liberal ideas because they are bigoted. Dems will not win doing that, we'll lose again. That is not to ignore Trump's very real appeal to the worst instincts, that is real. In my view that type of thinking has been meshed with economic views that don't reflect people's reality. There is also bigotry among core groups that support Democrats, homophobia in the black community is one example, failure of white liberals to admit their own role in inequality and their failure to do something other than come across as white saviors is another big one.

But it does not define every person who was drawn to his promises in 2016. Warren has the legislative policy record to back up what she's saying on the campaign trail. Corey Booker and Joe Biden also have this as a strength but to a lesser degree IMO,
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 13, 2019 11:08AM
Quote
Bernie
Categories I fall in/under.

college educated Eastern Mennonite University

"EMU attempts to graduate people oriented toward the wider world and toward helping others. "Motivated by faith and a philosophy of service, the Mennonites... have come to be regarded as leaders on the international relief stage," stated an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer on 10 August 2010."

This culture of service is reflected in the university's mission statement. EMU's insists on linking peace and social justice... its mission statement refers to Micah 6:8 on doing justice, loving mercy and walking humbly with God."


Sure don't SOUND like trump supporters; quite the contrary.
Did you sleep through those classes Bernie? sleepy smiley
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 13, 2019 11:50AM
DeusxMac I get your point but we're acknowledging here there's a lot of diversity that must funnel down to both major political candidates. For example there are several flavors of mennonites. (And no I do not prefer mine with a nice chianti and fava beans.)

We have the kind here in northern TN/southern KY that most people would call "Amish" but I don't know if that's how they identify. So they have the clothes that look like 1910. I do know they don't use electricity (but enjoy using hand tools likely made with it ... ). No phone. The horses receive astonishing training, the kind that moves the animal with subtle whispers and movements. Very nice people, but many have no teeth by the time they're teenagers. I like having teeth and will vote to support teeth.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 13, 2019 05:22PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
How granular do you want to get? I would guess there are at least 40 distinct labels you could put on Alt-Reich/Nazi/Klan groups in the US being followed by SPLC. Not too different for preppers/militias like the wingnuts that took over the Malheur refuge. There were at least 20 tea bagger groups, but they were all compromised by one or another SuperPAC (another set of labels by itself). Almost every Republican candidate in 2016 had a different SuperPAC giving them money.

I would guess the Federalist Society could be separated into at least five distinct groups. Ted listed another basic group with lots of discrete elements: Trump TV, Breitbart, InfoWars, etc.

This is a good analysis. I guess I'm so wanting to get rid of Trump that I tend to see this almost like I think of coalitions of voters that candidates build to win elections. What is Trump's coalition? Coalitions are like you talk about above - when you look at the demographics, the deeper you peer, the more fine grained details you see about the differences as well as the similarities.

I'm a big fan of Venn Diagrams, but they tend not to be so useful when dealing with a large number of attributes. The conjunctions and disjunctions can get mind-boggling. I like the idea, but what's going to happen is that you'd have to narrow the attributes and doing that without bias is tough - I imagine even professional pollsters have considerable trouble with that narrowing attributes to ask about without bias.

I do think there is value in reflecting on the most common attributes of Trump supporters, but we need to acknowledge the limitations of analysis based on a subset of attributes and that we are not capturing the essence of a lot (or all) of the real people that support Trump. Every typically capable person is a complex organism. We aren't generalities. There are no average Trump voters when you take peoples' complexities fully into account.

That said, I'd like to mention an attribute I think a powerful subset of Trump supporters have in common - economic conservatism. I'd like to see a simple Venn Diagram that shows how much overlap there is between those who support Trump primarily because they are economic conservatives and the circle for Trump supporters who have an income in the top 33%. My guess is there'd be considerable overlap there. I think this overlap is a very important part of his coalition that aren't particularly non-college educated or rural or evangelical (but probably tend to be white in complexion with lots of testosterone).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2019 05:25PM by Ted King.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: May 13, 2019 06:03PM
It could be a thesis subject for a PolySci graduate: how many labels does it require to isolate a "monolithic" Cheeto Benito interest group that is at least
X.x% of the Republican electorate?

I bet Faecesbook already knows this to a certain extent, and is trying to figure out how to market in 2020 it without getting caught.



In tha 360. [url=Zee Maps Now requires a subscription/payment to work]MRF User Map[/url]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2019 06:04PM by Filliam H. Muffman.
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Re: Friend and I are going to make a Venn Diagram of Trump supporters
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: May 13, 2019 06:12PM
Well, it's getting out of hand. To get to the basics, I would say: @#$%& and @#$%&.
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