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Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: samintx
Date: May 13, 2019 05:11PM
I am not a financial wizard but I was startled that Jim Cramer said the tariffs won't hurt America. Sellers would absorb the higher cost of goods and not pass it on to buyers, it would not hurt business in America. They can manufacture in the USA. (I can't stand Mr. Cramer)

Kudlow has put out "tariffs won't hurt us" flags but he is singing this song Now:

Kudlow admits the truth about tariffs...

Over and over and over again, Trump has been falsely claiming that -- in the words of one of his Sunday tweets -- the U.S. is "taking in tens of billions of dollars in tariffs from China." Americans actually end up paying for these tariffs. Fox's Chris Wallace was able to get National Economic Council Director Larry Kudlow to acknowledge this on Sunday -- a moment that merited its own news story on multiple websites.

Of course our prez thinks the national bank account is going to swell with dollars collected with his tariffs.

Geezzzzz. If a average old lady can see thru this what does it say about the people at the top of this debacle?
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: DinerDave
Date: May 13, 2019 05:18PM
Lies, deception, deceit, it's the political way.

Dave



Welcome to Dave's BBQ!

Many have eaten here....

Few have died
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: hal
Date: May 13, 2019 05:57PM
Quote
samintx
Geezzzzz. If a average old lady can see thru this what does it say about the people at the top of this debacle?

Unfortunately (?), you're not average....
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 13, 2019 06:30PM
We'd like to hope that at least the domestic producers that compete with tariffed Chinese products would then maintain the same price as before the tariffs so at least domestic producers would get a boost in sales without consumers having to pay more. I suspect that many domestic producers won't maintain their pre-tariff prices, though, and instead float the price up to just below the tariffed Chinese producers.

That's far from being the whole story of tariffs (I think many tariffed Chinese products may not have domestic competition), but I think an important part of the story never-the-less.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2019 06:31PM by Ted King.
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: May 13, 2019 06:37PM
Quote
Ted King
We'd like to hope that at least the domestic producers that compete with tariffed Chinese products would then maintain the same price as before the tariffs so at least domestic producers would get a boost in sales without consumers having to pay more. I suspect that many domestic producers won't maintain their pre-tariff prices, though, and instead float the price up to just below the tariffed Chinese producers.

Only if capitalism works as advertised.smiley12

Quote
Ted King
That's far from being the whole story of tariffs (I think many tariffed Chinese products may not have domestic competition), but I think an important part of the story never-the-less.

Yeah - try finding a U.S.-made clothes dryer that works. They don't care about U.S. consumers - this whole fight is about making China blink.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2019 06:37PM by rjmacs.
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 13, 2019 06:38PM
Define "hurt."

Yes we'll be hurt and yes America pays for this showdown, as does China: that's the basic Economics lesson.

But will we feel it? I don't know. In some ways, probably. In other ways things will get a more expensive and we'll never know for sure why.

Conservatives like Cramer (yep) like to couch their opinions in terms of hurt-you-can't-really-feel-much.

Still makes him wrong, of course.

***************

Lost in all this is Trump's missed marketing opportunity. Tariffs are (at best) righting some perceived imbalance, like the "chicken tax" that refuses to go away and makes imported pickup trucks more expensive. Trump seems to think China is taking advantage of "us," when what they're doing is taking advantage of the global economy, same as American companies who farm out cheaper labor and parts.

The voting public becomes the pawn, "fought over" for "their" benefit. Just another con.
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: May 13, 2019 06:39PM
Cramer has admitted to market-manipulation. Bragged about messing with Apple's stock price a few years ago. He comes off as someone earnest, but he's scummy. He'll say what he needs to in order to maximize his own profits.



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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 13, 2019 06:39PM
Quote
samintx
...Jim Cramer said... Sellers would absorb the higher cost of goods and not pass it on to buyers...

I wonder how many moons Cramer’s planet has?
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 13, 2019 06:54PM
Quote
deckeda

But will we feel it?

Don't know for sure, either, but here's some data on who will pay the highest share of their income toward tariffs:

[www.motherjones.com]



Of course, the Americans who feel this the most are the ones who produce products that the Chinese have raised tariffs on. Politically, that's the more salient group to look at. How much before they scream at Trump loud enough that he needs to stop? I don't know that either, but that's why Trump wants to pay them off with government subsidies (which will cost all of us twice over).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2019 07:48PM by Ted King.
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: May 13, 2019 06:57PM
Cramer was dragged through the dirt by several TV/online/print financial pundits after he was essentially criminally late in admitting the market was tanking in 2008.



In tha 360. [url=Zee Maps Now requires a subscription/payment to work]MRF User Map[/url]
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 13, 2019 08:02PM
Honestly, I think the heat that will probably get Trump to change on this will come from conservatives for whom the free market is sacrosanct. (Once their outrage gets transmitted through Faux News, of course...)
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 13, 2019 08:48PM
Quote
pdq
Honestly, I think the heat that will probably get Trump to change on this will come from conservatives for whom the free market is sacrosanct. (Once their outrage gets transmitted through Faux News, of course...)

That's plausible, but then how could they do that without making it look like Trump had to back down? I ask because if Trump is of a mind that this is one battle he has to definitely look like he won, then the face-saving formula of retreat may be hard to find. I think the Republican white tribe is in the thrall of strongman Trump and the free-trader economic libertarian types might not get enough sway with Republican congresscritters because of their fear of tribal retribution in the name of Trump.

I think it's just as plausible that Trump and Xi Jinping cobble together enough of something that they can both walk away saying that it was a good deal - at least for awhile. Xi Jinping's input into the cobble will probably contain long term strategic elements and Trump will be happy to say his art of the deal skills worked to protect America - America for real American Americans. I'm what's good for America, believe me! That's his "strategic goal".



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2019 03:38PM by Ted King.
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 13, 2019 09:20PM
Ted, I've answered your how-to question immediately above by clarifying pdf's post.

Quote
pdq
Honestly, I think the heat that will probably get Trump to change on this will come from conservatives for whom the free market is sacrosanct. (Once their outrage gets transmitted through watered down by Faux News, of course...)

But I think they'll beseech him to little effect, after all you've got Kudlow who knows he's advising an imbecile. So as with so much else it'll be up to his aides to re-re-re-reshape it in a way that lets him know he's unpopular.
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 14, 2019 07:52AM
GOP angst grows amid Trump trade war” at The Hill.

It suggests that the Trump tariff tirade may put some Red Ag-state GOP senators at risk in 2020.

It correctly points out that Trump may be able to buy off farmers for a year or so when their Chinese customers disappear, but what happens after that?
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: May 14, 2019 08:17AM
Listening to celebrity TV financial "gurus" is about as smart as getting medical advice from "Dr." Phil.

It must drive Trump crazy that he can't find a toady that will just flat out lie for him. They eventually realize that they need to admit some part of the truth to maintain any semblance of credibility.
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: samintx
Date: May 14, 2019 12:00PM
Quote
pdq
GOP angst grows amid Trump trade war” at The Hill.

It suggests that the Trump tariff tirade may put some Red Ag-state GOP senators at risk in 2020.

It correctly points out that Trump may be able to buy off farmers for a year or so when their Chinese customers disappear, but what happens after that?

Well, the farmers are getting a huge payoff. It is already law.
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 14, 2019 12:15PM
Quote
samintx
Quote
pdq
GOP angst grows amid Trump trade war” at The Hill.

It suggests that the Trump tariff tirade may put some Red Ag-state GOP senators at risk in 2020.

It correctly points out that Trump may be able to buy off farmers for a year or so when their Chinese customers disappear, but what happens after that?

Well, the farmers are getting a huge payoff. It is already law.

That was for last year, Sam. They're teeing up another $12 or 15B for this year.

Or, y'know, maybe they're not:

Quote

Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue said Monday President Donald Trump hasn't talked with him about providing farmers harmed by ongoing trade disputes with another round of emergency aid.

...Reuters reported Monday that White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow said the administration was ready to provide more aid to farmers, slammed by ongoing U.S. trade wars with China, Canada, Mexico, Europe and other countries.

“We have allocated $12 billion, some such, to farm assistance. And we stand ready to do more if necessary,” Kudlow told reporters.

"I'm afraid that's not accurate," said Perdue, who also visited Vermeer Corp., the Pella manufacturer of farm and industrial equipment, on Monday.

"I think that possibly could be some miscommunication," he added.

dunno smiley
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: hal
Date: May 14, 2019 02:23PM
Quote
pdq
GOP angst grows amid Trump trade war” at The Hill.

It suggests that the Trump tariff tirade may put some Red Ag-state GOP senators at risk in 2020.

It correctly points out that Trump may be able to buy off farmers for a year or so when their Chinese customers disappear, but what happens after that?

How many 'Repubs are turning on Trump' articles have we read in the last 2 years? Dozens, I would guess. How many republicans have actually turned on Trump in those two years? Zero. The handful of anti-trumpers have always been anti-trumpers, but almost ALL of the trump skeptics have fallen in line in those two years.
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Re: Jim Cramer's wrong take of tariffs
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 14, 2019 06:20PM
Oh, Sonny.

Shoulda been retired, woulda been retired if not picked for this nothing-job.

Surprised his boss is considering helping farmers (clarification: megalarge agriculture conglomerates) without so much as remembering he has someone in his Cabinet that might be interested?

Yeah, it’s like that.
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