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Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: samintx
Date: May 16, 2019 04:05PM
Everyday I wonder what we the people have working for us to keep our country from being “ruled” rather than governed. Everything brought up today is shot down tomorrow. Cheeto is going to walk away unscathed by anything he has done or said. He will be poking us in the eye till he is 6 ft under and after. stick poke smiley I am not optimistic. Precedence...what is that? A word with no meaning these days.
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: May 16, 2019 04:27PM
That's what happens when people vote for a party that made deals with foreign parties to influence elections in 3 out of 5 of the last elections that they won.

Bush 41 was involved in some pretty crooked shenanigans during Reagan-heimers terms. I haven't heard that he used any of that to win his election, but I wouldn't put it past him. Maybe in 30 years we find out 9/11 was originally scheduled for a year earlier to help his son get elected.



In tha 360. [url=Zee Maps Now requires a subscription/payment to work]MRF User Map[/url]
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: max
Date: May 16, 2019 04:52PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
That's what happens when people vote for a party that made deals with foreign parties to influence elections ...

Lets keep Clintons out of our discussions, please....




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution;
one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 16, 2019 04:57PM
Going back to at least Alexander Hamilton (Federalist Papers No. 70) there have been some powerful people who have argued for a unitary executive interpretation of the Constitution (Article II in particular).

In the Federalist Papers Hamilton said:

Quote

...energy in the executive is the leading character in the definition of good government. It is essential to the protection of the community against foreign attacks…to the steady administration of the laws, to the protection of property…to justice; [and] to the security of liberty….

I think Trump is making an excellent argument by his actions that Hamilton's reasoning was flawed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2019 04:58PM by Ted King.
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: hal
Date: May 16, 2019 05:43PM
I say no - the constitution isn't working. Not like it used to. Frankly, it's time to scrap it and rewrite it for a modern age. The idea that we are 50 individual nation-states has to go too. One nation with one constitution from then on.

Of course, none of that is gonna happen - it just aint possible. Far more likely that we will just shrivel up over the next several decades while China exerts it real power.
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: May 16, 2019 07:06PM
The idea that we are 50 individual nation-states has to go too.

Either get rid of the Electoral College or award electors based on votes. The Senate could use rebalancing so that states with lower population than some mid-sized cities don't have undue power. Territories, Puerto Rico and District of Columbia need to have better representation.



In tha 360. [url=Zee Maps Now requires a subscription/payment to work]MRF User Map[/url]
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: May 16, 2019 09:57PM
Quote
max
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
That's what happens when people vote for a party that made deals with foreign parties to influence elections ...

Lets keep Clintons out of our discussions, please....

STICK IT TO THE LIBSSSS!!!1



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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 16, 2019 11:04PM
How about we let the House of Representatives be truly proportional to population? THAT's already in there. The whole voice of the small state thing is endemic to the Senate. It was never supposed to be endemic to the House.
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: max
Date: May 17, 2019 03:01AM
Thank god for the Electoral College, a small measure of the protection for the minority, from the tyranny of the majority....




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution;
one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: May 17, 2019 08:05AM
Democracy is not the best political system. It's just the best one that works. The problems America has these days is that our governmental structure assumes a certain amount of selflessness and willingness to serve on the part of our senior executives and legislators. And THAT part of the pendulum has swung way too far to the right.

Humans are messed up, selfish critters.
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 17, 2019 09:58AM
Quote
cbelt3
Democracy is not the best political system. It's just the best one that works.

“It has been said that Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time.”
Winston S. Churchill
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 17, 2019 10:44AM
The electoral college gave us one unnecessary war, and is itching for another.
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 17, 2019 12:36PM
Our Constitution and most of our laws are just fine.

It's the people in political power doing us harm at the moment, and our reluctance to hold them accountable. For example the fixer the president has installed as "Attorney General." He's basically Donald Trump with a legal background. Barr is now threatening Democrats that if they move forward against the Pres, he has stuff on them. He is not the legitimate top law enforcement official we're supposed to have in that role.
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: May 17, 2019 03:01PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Our Constitution and most of our laws are just fine.

Huh-what?

Quote
Lemon Drop
It's the people in political power doing us harm at the moment, and our reluctance to hold them accountable. For example the fixer the president has installed as "Attorney General." He's basically Donald Trump with a legal background. Barr is now threatening Democrats that if they move forward against the Pres, he has stuff on them. He is not the legitimate top law enforcement official we're supposed to have in that role.

Cite for your accusation on Barr? That's implying some J. Edgar Hoover-level corruption... If our Constitution is working just fine, why are impeachment hearings not occurring? Because it's a forgone conclusion that the Senate will never vote to convict, no matter what is revealed at trial.

It's a weird claim to say that the system is fine, it's the people not using the system correctly that is the problem. As though it's not the system's job to anticipate and accommodate precisely that failing...



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 17, 2019 03:23PM
I don’t know about that but he’s curiously smug these days. Almost as if he takes none of this seriously.

Barr asks Pelosi outside the Capitol, ‘Madam Speaker, did you bring your handcuffs?’

So in addition to being 45’s lackey he’s also an @#$%&.
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 17, 2019 03:33PM
The Barr quote is from an interview Barr did with Bill Hemmer, a Fox contributor, both are in El Salvador. I won't link it, it's Fox, but you can easily find it via google if you're interested.


“It's a laughable charge and I think it's largely being made to try to discredit me partly because they may be concerned about the outcome of a review of what happened during the election,” Barr countered.

“They may be trying to undermine my credibility, but obviously you can look at the face of my testimony and see on its face that there was nothing inaccurate about it.”
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Re: Is our Constitution and laws working for us?
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 17, 2019 04:48PM
Ah, yes, technically correct, the best kind of correct. The Republicans have taken the country hostage under technical correctness. There's no legal definition of collusion. There's nothing saying the President can't issue whatever executive order he wants. There's nothing saying the President is subject to indictment while in office. There's nothing that says the Senate must consider a Supreme Court nominee in a timely fashion.
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