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Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 07, 2019 01:19PM
From June:
With attention turned to the women’s achievements, politicians, athletes, writers and others weighed in on Wednesday about the pay gap. President Trump’s position, however, was unclear. When NBC correspondent Peter Alexander asked him whether the women’s players should be paid as much as the men’s players, Trump responded, “We’ll talk about that later.”

Yeah I think maybe now is a good time.
The women are earning more for their employer than the men, but at current incremental raises would not be at parity with men's pay for another 20 years.

Unacceptable.

[www.cnbc.com]
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: July 07, 2019 01:28PM
I was reading (don't recall where) this morning that there are calls for women's soccer teams to ditch FIFA and create their own confederation. Sounded like a good idea.
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 07, 2019 02:07PM
Melania Trump and President Obama have tweeted congrats to the women's team, but nothing from Trump. I guess he's going to pout instead or maybe dish out more abuse and bullying to these amazing women.
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 07, 2019 02:15PM
Quote
Ted King
I was reading (don't recall where) this morning that there are calls for women's soccer teams to ditch FIFA and create their own confederation. Sounded like a good idea.

FIFA is so corrupt and generally awful that I'd love to see it fold altogether and be replaced with something (maybe separate leagues for men and women) that would not be so disrespectful to the women's game. But they are extremely powerful as a world organization - that's a tough one.
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 07, 2019 03:21PM
I think it would change quickly if there was a way to force FIFA to have equal numbers of women in management and equal pay for those women. That won't happen for another generation because so many other countries in the league still treat women like property.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 07, 2019 05:06PM
This Nike ad is everything:
[www.youtube.com]


Hello 2020 Dems? Hire this marketing pro.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2019 05:07PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 08, 2019 12:03AM
"Trump On Women's Soccer Team And Equal Pay: ‘Look At Numbers’ "

[m.huffpost.com]




' Watch Crowd Chant “F**k Trump” During Fox News Live Shot After U.S. Wins World Cup '

[slate.com]
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 08, 2019 07:28AM
Quote
btfc
"Trump On Women's Soccer Team And Equal Pay: ‘Look At Numbers’ "

[m.huffpost.com]




' Watch Crowd Chant “F**k Trump” During Fox News Live Shot After U.S. Wins World Cup '

[slate.com]

Good for that fan!



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 08, 2019 08:41AM
I doubt the team will play with a full complement of top players next time around if there isn't pay equity. The leverage is in whether or not the top talent will continue to participate out of patriotism, or be willing to put the team on the line for economic justice. I'm for justice!



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: July 08, 2019 09:43AM
Quote
rjmacs
I doubt the team will play with a full complement of top players next time around if there isn't pay equity. The leverage is in whether or not the top talent will continue to participate out of patriotism, or be willing to put the team on the line for economic justice. I'm for justice!

If they don’t play though, are there other avenues to make up the lost income? The pay structure is jacked, for a host of reasons, but players are still looking at up to $200,000; not parity, but still, not the kind of whole you’d want to punch in your bank account. Some of the players would have endorsement money to help, but not all. Is there anything to act as an effective ‘strike fund’?
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 08, 2019 10:45AM
I can’t picture the athletes scuttling their careers, and the stature of the team, over this. It isn’t logical. Nothing would be accomplished by having the team slide into mediocrity. And as previously noted, what would the players do for income, especially after blowing off the most powerful body in football. They are using their greatness as a weapon and won’t disarm themselves that way.



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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 08, 2019 11:56AM
Historically, the effectiveness of public pressure in improving employee's pay/benefits/conditions has been fairly limited. What tends to produce substantive change is the threat of strike and the multiplicative power of solidarity with other unions.

I think it's great that the women's team is riding high and that their campaign for pay equity is getting lots of support and attention. I hope that the women are able to enlist more support from members of the men's national team, and build bridges with the other major sports players' unions. There is space for this effort to grow in strength and power.

But if, at the end of the day, the players will play no matter what management does about pay - that punches a big hole in your negotiations.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2019 11:56AM by rjmacs.
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 08, 2019 12:12PM
The WSJ reported that just before the World Cup started the parties had tentatively agreed to enter mediation.

The EEOC granted the women players the right to sue in federal court and they have "exhausted all administrative options" so suing was all that was left.

Here's the full complaint. It's good:

[int.nyt.com]

I'm expecting the women players to prevail. This situation is nonsense.
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: hal
Date: July 08, 2019 03:19PM
Quote
$tevie
I can’t picture the athletes scuttling their careers, and the stature of the team, over this. It isn’t logical. Nothing would be accomplished by having the team slide into mediocrity. And as previously noted, what would the players do for income, especially after blowing off the most powerful body in football. They are using their greatness as a weapon and won’t disarm themselves that way.

200 Female Pro Hockey Players Lay Down Their Sticks Demanding Better Conditions

Among those 200 are the best players in the world - the ones with juicy endorsement deals included. It's not the same situation, but it does show that when backs are up against the wall, some WILL refuse to play rather than continue with a system that doesn't work for them. The US soccer women are certainly watching...

The womens US hockey team actually did what this soccer team is doing - they played hardball and won.

How the US Women’s Hockey Team Tripled Their Salaries By Banding Together
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: Thrift Store Scott
Date: July 08, 2019 06:35PM
Men's soccer players already earn a smaller percentage of total revenue for their league than women's soccer players do for theirs-

[www.youtube.com]



Lie to me if you must, but don't lie to me and insult my intelligence in the same sentence.
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 08, 2019 07:49PM
Quote
rjmacs

But if, at the end of the day, the players will play no matter what management does about pay - that punches a big hole in your negotiations.


The women players did threaten to strike in 2016 and that's how they got their current collective bargaining agreement, which is in effect until 2021. The lawsuit underway now is separate and is the result of their EEOC filing.

They want a pay structure that is equitable to the structure the men have - not "equal pay." That phrase unfortunately badly oversimplifies this problem. With an equitable pay structure the women might in some cases earn more than the men.


In the end, the labor impasse between the WNTPA and U.S. Soccer concluded without a work stoppage.

USWNT co-captain Becky Sauerbrunn told the Planet Fútbol podcast, released on Tuesday: “Apparently the EEOC investigation is in its later stages, and so we hope to hear their findings, hopefully soon. And from there, along with a CBA, we hope that gender equity will occur in this CBA and will benefit the player pool for many years going forward.”
[www.si.com]
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 09, 2019 08:16AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
rjmacs

But if, at the end of the day, the players will play no matter what management does about pay - that punches a big hole in your negotiations.


The women players did threaten to strike in 2016 and that's how they got their current collective bargaining agreement, which is in effect until 2021. The lawsuit underway now is separate and is the result of their EEOC filing.

They want a pay structure that is equitable to the structure the men have - not "equal pay." That phrase unfortunately badly oversimplifies this problem. With an equitable pay structure the women might in some cases earn more than the men.


In the end, the labor impasse between the WNTPA and U.S. Soccer concluded without a work stoppage.

USWNT co-captain Becky Sauerbrunn told the Planet Fútbol podcast, released on Tuesday: “Apparently the EEOC investigation is in its later stages, and so we hope to hear their findings, hopefully soon. And from there, along with a CBA, we hope that gender equity will occur in this CBA and will benefit the player pool for many years going forward.”
[www.si.com]

I never said anything about "equal pay." I talked about pay equity, which is exactly what you're describing. Thanks for mentioning the threatened strike - it's important to recognize the leverage of being willing to walk out.

I wish them well in their suit and their negotiations. They've earned more than they're getting.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Can we talk about women soccer players' pay now?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 09, 2019 08:51AM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
rjmacs

But if, at the end of the day, the players will play no matter what management does about pay - that punches a big hole in your negotiations.


The women players did threaten to strike in 2016 and that's how they got their current collective bargaining agreement, which is in effect until 2021. The lawsuit underway now is separate and is the result of their EEOC filing.

They want a pay structure that is equitable to the structure the men have - not "equal pay." That phrase unfortunately badly oversimplifies this problem. With an equitable pay structure the women might in some cases earn more than the men.


In the end, the labor impasse between the WNTPA and U.S. Soccer concluded without a work stoppage.

USWNT co-captain Becky Sauerbrunn told the Planet Fútbol podcast, released on Tuesday: “Apparently the EEOC investigation is in its later stages, and so we hope to hear their findings, hopefully soon. And from there, along with a CBA, we hope that gender equity will occur in this CBA and will benefit the player pool for many years going forward.”
[www.si.com]

I never said anything about "equal pay." I talked about pay equity, which is exactly what you're describing. Thanks for mentioning the threatened strike - it's important to recognize the leverage of being willing to walk out.

I wish them well in their suit and their negotiations. They've earned more than they're getting.


I mentioned "equal pay" because that's the framing you hear most often in political discussions on this topic and IMO it causes oversimplification. It was just on my mind when I was typing that comment, it wasn't in response to anything you said.
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