advertisement
Forums

 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the 'Friendly' Political Ranting forum
Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: August 13, 2019 01:44PM
right here with pictures=> [www.timesofisrael.com]

Israel Democracy Institute survey finds broad support for liberal policies, but also shows liberal Israelis don’t prioritize religion-and-state issues at the ballot box


A majority of Israeli Jews want businesses to be permitted to open and public transportation to run on Shabbat, but do not prioritize these issues when they vote, according to a new study.

Fully 60 percent of Israeli Jews believe public transportation should be allowed on Shabbat throughout Israel, except in areas where observant Jews are a majority, the latest survey of Israelis by the Israel Democracy Institute has found.

The same number, 60%, also support opening supermarkets in areas where non-observant Jews are the majority.

Public buses and trains do not run in Israel from Friday night to Saturday night, in keeping with the Shabbat observance laws of Orthodox Judaism. Left-wing and secular activists have long chafed against the shuttering of public transportation, saying it disproportionately affects the poor, denying opportunities for weekend travel to families that do not own cars.

The divide among Israeli Jews closely follows their religious affiliations, with “overwhelming resistance” to public transportation on Shabbat (at 97% opposed) among the ultra-Orthodox, and fully 86% support among those who identify as secular.

The figures are similar across most religion-and-state issues polled by IDI, suggesting Israeli Jews likely think about these issues through the prism of their religious identities.

Asked about the state rabbinate’s monopoly on kashrut certification, 63% of Israeli Jews want it dismantled — 89% of the secular and 70% of the “traditional non-religious.” Nearly all ultra-Orthodox, 95.5%, back the rabbinate monopoly, together with 63% of national-religious and 48% of those who call themselves “traditional religious.”

On civil marriage, which does not exist in Israel, 59.5% of Israeli Jews back instituting it — 84.5% of secular Jews, 68% of the traditional non-religious, 41% of the traditional religious, and just 22.5% of the national-religious. Among the ultra-Orthodox, fully 96% oppose civil marriage.

On the question of ultra-Orthodox conscription to the Israel Defense Forces, the issue that torpedoed the last coalition talks in May and drove Israel to a redo election, fully 68.5% of Jews “support ‘recruiting young ultra-Orthodox’ while exempting a small number of outstanding scholars who will remain in yeshivas,” the IDI reported. Among secular and traditional non-religious, the figures are 79% and 70.5% respectively, dropping to 59% among national-religious. Predictably, 91.5% of the ultra-Orthodox oppose such a policy.

On the question of allowing egalitarian prayer at the Western Wall in Jerusalem, only secular Jews show majority support at 78%, while the various religious subcultures all oppose the idea, the ultra-Orthodox almost unanimously (98.5%), the national-religious by 72.5%, and the traditional religious and tradition non-religious by 60% and 45%, respectively. Overall, that put support for egalitarian prayers at the holy site at 51.5% of Israeli Jews.

The survey also offers insight into one reason that ultra-Orthodox political parties have had an outsize influence over Israelis’ religious life: their voters care more about those issues.

Among the ultra-Orthodox, over two-thirds, 67.5%, say religion-and-state questions are of “paramount importance” when they decide whom to vote for. Among the national-religious, the number prioritizing religion and state plummets to 17.5%. Among the secular, it drops further to just 11%.

The other three choices were national security (rendered in the survey as “foreign affairs and security”), “society and economics” and “strengthening democracy.”

National security trumps the other issues among the national-religious, traditional religious and traditional non-religious, at 53%, 44% and 47%, respectively.

Among secular Jews, the economy and welfare comes first in their voting considerations, at 45.5%, followed by national security at 28% and religion and state at 11%.

Taken together, 36.7% of all Israeli Jews put economic and social issues at the top, 36.2% prioritize national security, and just 15.5% say religion and state.

The survey offered other insights on Israeli attitudes. It showed, for example, the partisan way Israelis approach the debate over the country’s democratic ethos and institutions. Over a third, or 37.1%, of those who identified as politically “left” also said that “strengthening democracy” was their top consideration in choosing where to place their vote. On the right, it was just 1%. (Overall, it was the fourth most important issue to Israeli Jews, at 7%.)

The survey was conducted online via the PanelsLTD Online Survey on August 7 and 8 among 760 respondents, constituting a representative sample of the Jewish population, with a sampling error of 4%.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 13, 2019 02:31PM
G, can you tell us about the Israeli constitution and it's relationship with religion ? It seems that legally Judaism is not the 'official religion' of the State, but it has such a special relationship that the appearance exists. It's not a surprise that the ideals of Jewish population (75% of the population ?) reflect the distribution of Orthodoxy and non orthodoxy in the country.

I can understand the strong push towards 'right wing' considering that all of Israel is under continuous threat of total destruction by her neighbors, and continuous rocket attacks from the Palestinian territories. Fortress mentality produces a specific world view, and it is not reasonable to fault it without also faulting the attackers that produce the mentality.


(Disclaimer.... I helped create and sell some weapons systems to the state of Israel back in the 1980'. Good customers, very, very, very committed.)
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: August 13, 2019 03:04PM
Israel has no "constitution" per se. It is established and supremely governed by what are called the Basic Laws of Israel. As of 2018, this includes the maxim that Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people.

There's no such thing as a short discussion about the relationship between religion and the state in Israel. Religiosity is also (by far) not the only measure of Jewishness in Israel. There are lots of secular and nominally religious Jewish citizens of Israel who aren't the least bit less Jewish than their pious fellow citizens.

Edit: replaced "that" with "the" above.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2019 03:05PM by rjmacs.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: August 13, 2019 03:10PM
While I can't answer specifics, you should know one fact, when the state of Israel was established, there were only a small number of Ultra-Orthodox Jews in the population. Their increase (due mainly thru immigration, I believe) has led to the distortions experienced in the local governance. I'd give examples, but the poll results are a better statistical picture.

There is also the role of the very large population of Russian Jews who escaped the Soviet Union. They are a whole different category in themselves, with their own political parties.

I believe the large non-Orthodox population, including the 20% Arab population, has been seriously mistaken in not voting out Netanyahu and the even more extreme coalition that keeps him in power.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2019 03:12PM by Steve G..
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: August 13, 2019 03:16PM
Quote
Steve G.
I believe the large non-Orthodox population, including the 20% Arab population, has been seriously mistaken in not voting out Netanyahu and the even more extreme coalition that keeps him in power.

The implication that the 20% Arab population has been electing and reelecting Netanyahu is...... let's just call it inaccurate.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: August 13, 2019 03:43PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Steve G.
I believe the large non-Orthodox population, including the 20% Arab population, has been seriously mistaken in not voting out Netanyahu and the even more extreme coalition that keeps him in power.

The implication that the 20% Arab population has been electing and reelecting Netanyahu is...... let's just call it inaccurate.

I know you are looking for any chance to rile me. But let's just say that the Arab population does not vote for Netanyahu.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2019 03:44PM by Steve G..
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: August 13, 2019 03:52PM
Anyway, to indicate how complex the Israeli cultural groups and electorate are just look at this figure:

What percentage of Israel is Sephardic?
50.2%
According to the 2009 Statistical Abstract of Israel, 50.2% of Israeli Jews are of Mizrahi or Sephardic origin. Anti-Jewish actions by Arab governments in the 1950s and 1960s, in the context of the founding of the State of Israel, led to the departure of large numbers of Mizrahi Jews from the Middle East.

1) A percentage of them are religious.
2) Having been persecuted and murdered by Muslims, they are particularly sensitive to the threats surrounding them in Israel.
3) They are not most Americans' vision of Israel as being populated by European Jews.
4) To a certain extent they are pissed off because they know they were good citizens of the 'mizrahi' countries for more than a thousand years before Mohammed. The ones from Yemen were there since the Queen of Sheba. Luckily they all escaped, so it's just Muslims slaughtering one another in Yemen.

wikipedia:
The Jewish population in Israel comprises all Jewish diaspora communities, including Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardi Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Beta Israel, Cochin Jews, Bene Israel, Karaite Jews, and many other groups. The Israeli Jewish community manifests a wide range of Jewish cultural traditions, as well as encompassing the full spectrum of religious observance, from the haredi communities to the hilonim Jewish communities who live a secular lifestyle. Among the Jewish population, over 25% of the schoolchildren and over 35% of all newborns are of mixed ancestry of both Ashkenazi and Sephardi/Mizrahi descent and increases by 0.5% each year. Over 50% of the Jewish population is of at least a partial Sephardi/Mizrahi descent.

and they all vote.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2019 03:57PM by Steve G..
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 13, 2019 04:17PM
G- thanks for sharing. The political structure of the powder keg of the middle east is important to the world. Especially when you consider that the political structure of many of Israel's enemies are often so unstable.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: neophyte
Date: August 13, 2019 04:37PM
"On the question of ultra-Orthodox conscription to the Israel Defense Forces, ... fully 68.5% of Jews “support ‘recruiting young ultra-Orthodox’ while exempting a small number of outstanding scholars who will remain in yeshivas,” the IDI reported. ... Predictably, 91.5% of the ultra-Orthodox oppose such a policy. "

And yet:

"National security trumps the other issues among the national-religious, ... at 53%, ..."

So they want security, but without requiring them to help provide it?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: August 13, 2019 04:59PM
Quote
neophyte
So they want security, but without requiring them to help provide it?

The non-Orthodox Israelis are much more expressive about this than your restrained comment.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: bfd
Date: August 13, 2019 05:45PM
Extremists on either end will always create problems for the middle - witness the USA right now. For Israel, there's the extra added attraction of religious beliefs, and added to that for many, religious law. One good reason to separate religion and state, as it were - if it only worked that easily … and if only everyone could "just get along".
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: Speedy
Date: August 13, 2019 09:34PM
Maybe a two (or more) Israeli Jewish state partition would work best.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: Janit
Date: August 14, 2019 05:27AM
Quote
neophyte
"On the question of ultra-Orthodox conscription to the Israel Defense Forces, ... fully 68.5% of Jews “support ‘recruiting young ultra-Orthodox’ while exempting a small number of outstanding scholars who will remain in yeshivas,” the IDI reported. ... Predictably, 91.5% of the ultra-Orthodox oppose such a policy. "

And yet:

"National security trumps the other issues among the national-religious, ... at 53%, ..."

So they want security, but without requiring them to help provide it?

You are conflating the national-religious with the ultra-Orthodox. In general, the national-religious DO serve in the army. In contrast, the ultra-Orthodox are inclined to believe that studying in yeshiva is as important, if not MORE important, for the preservation of the Jewish community compared to serving in the army. Many ultra-Orthodox also believe that it was premature to establish a Jewish State in Israel, as the Messiah had not yet arrived, thus rendering the current Israeli government illegitimate.

For another view of the salient divisions in Israeli society see this article:

In Israel, Jews are united by homeland but divided into very different groups
[www.pewresearch.org]

The relevant categories are Haredim (ultra-Orthodox), Datiim (national religious/modern orthodox), Masortim (traditional), Hilonim (secular), but even these categories can be fuzzy.

Remember that if you ask three Jews a question, you will get at least four answers, more likely eight.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Poll: The real split among Israeli Jews (interesting read)
Posted by: bfd
Date: August 14, 2019 01:57PM
No talking in shul!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 315
Record Number of Users: 52 on November 20, 2014
Record Number of Guests: 2330 on October 25, 2018