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New and very rare: federal judge issues injunction against the prez himself
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 06, 2019 12:07PM
[www.politico.com]

Stemming from a case unrelated to the Ukraine inquiry - he's been ordered to preserve all records related to dealings with foreign leaders. The judge was unwilling to just take the DOJ's word that they would do this. A number of groups filed this lawsuit earlier this year because they were worried that the Trump admin was hiding and destroying records that have historical significance.

Ya think?
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Re: New and very rare: federal judge issues injunction against the prez himself
Posted by: GGD
Date: October 06, 2019 12:14PM
What's the penalty for him if he disobeys the order? And can he pardon himself for it if Barr would even allow him to be charged with something?
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Re: New and very rare: federal judge issues injunction against the prez himself
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 06, 2019 12:30PM
Quote
GGD
What's the penalty for him if he disobeys the order? And can he pardon himself for it if Barr would even allow him to be charged with something?

A indictment for criminal contempt of court, issued on the afternoon of Jan 20, 2021

Barr will be out of office and Trump will have no power to pardon himself or anyone else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2019 12:31PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: New and very rare: federal judge issues injunction against the prez himself
Posted by: sekker
Date: October 06, 2019 10:02PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
GGD
What's the penalty for him if he disobeys the order? And can he pardon himself for it if Barr would even allow him to be charged with something?

A indictment for criminal contempt of court, issued on the afternoon of Jan 20, 2021

Barr will be out of office and Trump will have no power to pardon himself or anyone else.

I sure hope you are right.
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Re: New and very rare: federal judge issues injunction against the prez himself
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 07, 2019 08:11AM
I think it's very unlikely that Donald Trump will face criminal charges upon leaving office.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: New and very rare: federal judge issues injunction against the prez himself
Posted by: RgrF
Date: October 07, 2019 08:46AM
Trump is secure from prosecution and he knows that. Criminalizing of national leaders is not a path this country has ever or should ever follow. Like it or not Trump is, if not a national leader, a spokesperson for a significant minority of this country.

"Lock her up" was always political rhetoric, they knew that even if their followers did not.

We are not Brazil or any other third world country, nor should we ever be.
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Re: New and very rare: federal judge issues injunction against the prez himself
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 07, 2019 08:52AM
Quote
RgrF
Trump is secure from prosecution and he knows that. Criminalizing of national leaders is not a path this country has ever or should ever follow. Like it or not Trump is, if not a national leader, a spokesperson for a significant minority of this country.

"Lock her up" was always political rhetoric, they knew that even if their followers did not.

We are not Brazil or any other third world country, nor should we ever be.

This does not mean, however, that he might not be financially destroyed by zealous federal prosecutors who go after his businesses. It's not criminalizing the man proper, but it would target his organization as a proxy. Likewise, if the current administration thought it could undermine the Clinton Foundation through prosecutions, I think it would, even if it never led to criminal prosecutions of Bill or Hillary.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: New and very rare: federal judge issues injunction against the prez himself
Posted by: deckeda
Date: October 07, 2019 08:52AM
If the electorate approves of your idea of imprisoning political rivals, it functionally makes no difference whether or not you actually do it.

It’s always been more than just rhetoric in terms of getting things done.
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Re: New and very rare: federal judge issues injunction against the prez himself
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 07, 2019 09:34AM
"National leaders" are not above the law. Our system of government and laws depends on that. There are many examples of "national leaders" being prosecuted, convicted, and going to prison. Bill Clinton faced legal consequences for his actions, including contempt of court and the suspension of his law license, and he worked out a plea bargain to prevent further prosecution.

The current situation though is unprecedented; we simply don't know how courts will respond having a person with so much contempt for our laws holding the highest office. We have already seen a number of federal judges who reject the argument that the president cannot be held accountable by prosecutors and courts.

We're in completely uncharted territory here.
It will have to play out.
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Re: New and very rare: federal judge issues injunction against the prez himself
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 07, 2019 09:37AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
"National leaders" are not above the law. Our system of government and laws depends on that. There are many examples of "national leaders" being prosecuted, convicted, and going to prison. Bill Clinton faced legal consequences for his actions, including contempt of court and the suspension of his law license, and he worked out a plea bargain to prevent further prosecution.

The current situation though is unprecedented; we simply don't know how courts will respond having a person with so much contempt for our laws holding the highest office. We have already seen a number of federal judges who reject the argument that the president cannot be held accountable by prosecutors and courts.

We're in completely uncharted territory here.
It will have to play out.

It will lead inevitably to retaliation. I'm not saying that's an argument against it, but it could be less politically destructive if criminal investigations into a former president happen at the state, rather than federal, level.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: New and very rare: federal judge issues injunction against the prez himself
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 07, 2019 01:26PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Lemon Drop
"National leaders" are not above the law. Our system of government and laws depends on that. There are many examples of "national leaders" being prosecuted, convicted, and going to prison. Bill Clinton faced legal consequences for his actions, including contempt of court and the suspension of his law license, and he worked out a plea bargain to prevent further prosecution.

The current situation though is unprecedented; we simply don't know how courts will respond having a person with so much contempt for our laws holding the highest office. We have already seen a number of federal judges who reject the argument that the president cannot be held accountable by prosecutors and courts.

We're in completely uncharted territory here.
It will have to play out.

It will lead inevitably to retaliation. I'm not saying that's an argument against it, but it could be less politically destructive if criminal investigations into a former president happen at the state, rather than federal, level.

“Lock her up,” and they would if they could but they’ve got nothing yet AG Barr is still investigating and asking foreign intel services to help find something, anything. When his time as president is over, go get him!



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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