advertisement
Forums

 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the 'Friendly' Political Ranting forum
What if any punishment?
Posted by: samintx
Date: October 09, 2019 10:14AM
For no appearance or no documents. I heard yesterday no salary
(which is kosher?) but what about custody? Would Nancy do that? There has to be some punishment under the law.
I forgot the name of the cabinet member cited as having his salary suspended for non complance in past history.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2019 11:38AM by samintx.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 09, 2019 10:46AM
Can you share more details on what you heard Sam?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: October 09, 2019 10:53AM
Contempt of Congress.
"The criminal offense of "contempt of Congress" sets the penalty at not less than one month nor more than twelve months in jail and a fine of not more than $100,000."

Definitely would drain the swamp FAST.

[en.wikipedia.org].
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: October 09, 2019 11:14AM
Usually the course Congress takes when someone ignores a subpoena is to refer it to the Justice Department for possible prosecution, but with Barr barring the door to anything that Trump doesn't want to happen, criminal referral to DOJ by Congress is probably a dead end.

So I think they have to take it to court because even Barr will be very reticent to go against a court order to make a person comply with a Congressional subpoena or face jail time. Of course, as rjmacs likes to point out, the appeals process in the courts usually takes a whole lot of months so Trump might even be out of office by the time the Supreme Court rules on any particular subpoena. I hope even if it takes a long time and is pretty much a moot point by the time SCOTUS rules that we do get a set of rulings from the Court that makes ignoring of most Congressional subpoenas clearly illegal.

I really wish that SCOTUS (collectively) decides that these issues are urgent enough that they will speed up the appeals process and can resolve these suits much more quickly than normal. But I doubt they will.

So, to answer your question more directly - if there is any punishment, it won't come quickly, if punishment ever happens at all. Trump will be impeached and I suppose that's sort of a punishment, but the Senate probably won't kick him out of office so he isn't likely to face real punishment for at least until he gets out of office.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2019 11:19AM by Ted King.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: samintx
Date: October 09, 2019 11:42AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Can you share more details on what you heard Sam?

It was a Dem congress member being interviewed. I have used every combination in the book to try to get the right search words. The interview was about ‘would the Dem punish obstruction of justice”.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 09, 2019 12:16PM
Quote
samintx
Quote
Lemon Drop
Can you share more details on what you heard Sam?

It was a Dem congress member being interviewed. I have used every combination in the book to try to get the right search words. The interview was about ‘would the Dem punish obstruction of justice”.

There are 3 things that Congress (House or Senate) can do if an individual fails to comply with a subpoena:
1. Have the person arrested and held in the Capitol jail until the end of the legislative session. This hasn't been done since 1935 and isn't likely to happen though it would be fun.

2. Refer the matter to the US Attorney for DC for criminal prosecution. This runs into conflict with the DOJ where members of the Executive branch are concerned, as Ted mentioned above.

3. The Senate rules allow them to initiate a civil action in federal district court. If that court issues an injunction, the person would be subject to those rules/laws. A Republican controlled Senate is not likely to take action against a Trump official.

Although Congress has very broad powers to independently investigate pretty much anything, and to use its subpoena power, the process is much more political than it is legal. The House is only going to issue and enforce subpoenas to the extent that the process matches the overarching political goals and strategies.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: October 09, 2019 12:18PM
The answer is "no, unless and until ..."

As Ted mentioned, the DoJ would have to assist and Barr has already said he'll enforce no ignored subpoenas on behalf of an impeachment inquiry.

The majority (WH, DoJ, Senate) takes the position of the House's inquiry as illegitimate. At this point, public opinion stands a greater chance of moving the ball quickly than do any courts (assuming the courts would do anything.)
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: October 09, 2019 12:28PM
Obstruction, not any phone call with Zelensky, will drive the impeachment if recent events stay the course.

The House will easily show the president obstructed. Mitch might need a refresher course on what that means, but he'll nevertheless be limited to 2 options:

1) Recognize the president obstructed, because of the evidence.
2) Claim the House inquiry and investigations have all been shams while moving the goalposts.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 09, 2019 12:41PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
samintx
Quote
Lemon Drop
Can you share more details on what you heard Sam?

It was a Dem congress member being interviewed. I have used every combination in the book to try to get the right search words. The interview was about ‘would the Dem punish obstruction of justice”.

There are 3 things that Congress (House or Senate) can do if an individual fails to comply with a subpoena:
1. Have the person arrested and held in the Capitol jail until the end of the legislative session. This hasn't been done since 1935 and isn't likely to happen though it would be fun.

Only problem is, you can't use any police under the authority of DoJ, which is almost all of them. You're left with the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House, and whatever Capitol Police he can drum up to go on a hunting party.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: October 09, 2019 01:21PM
Congress may appeal directly to SCOTUS if the matter is urgent. That was done during the Nixon presidency and the issue went from court filing to SCOTUS decision in three months. Nixon resigned less than two weeks after the ruling was handed down.

The scary part is that neither Congress nor the judiciary has direct enforcement at its disposal. Historically both have relied upon the DOJ to enforce its needs. If Trump and his minions continue to ignore the court ruling, it really would be up to the senate to then impeach. At that point, even Trump's most ardent Senatorial groupies may have had enough.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: wave rider
Date: October 09, 2019 01:55PM
Start impeachment of Barr sooner than later.



=wr=
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: October 09, 2019 02:07PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
samintx
Quote
Lemon Drop
Can you share more details on what you heard Sam?

It was a Dem congress member being interviewed. I have used every combination in the book to try to get the right search words. The interview was about ‘would the Dem punish obstruction of justice”.

There are 3 things that Congress (House or Senate) can do if an individual fails to comply with a subpoena:
1. Have the person arrested and held in the Capitol jail until the end of the legislative session. This hasn't been done since 1935 and isn't likely to happen though it would be fun.

Only problem is, you can't use any police under the authority of DoJ, which is almost all of them. You're left with the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House, and whatever Capitol Police he can drum up to go on a hunting party.

In addition there is a whole set of procedures the House would have to go through before they could send the Sergeant-at_Arms out to arrest and hold someone.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 09, 2019 02:11PM
this president wiped his butt with our constitution.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: October 09, 2019 02:59PM
Quote
Ombligo
Congress may appeal directly to SCOTUS if the matter is urgent. That was done during the Nixon presidency and the issue went from court filing to SCOTUS decision in three months. Nixon resigned less than two weeks after the ruling was handed down.

The scary part is that neither Congress nor the judiciary has direct enforcement at its disposal. Historically both have relied upon the DOJ to enforce its needs. If Trump and his minions continue to ignore the court ruling, it really would be up to the senate to then impeach. At that point, even Trump's most ardent Senatorial groupies may have had enough.

What court ruling are you referring to, regarding the current matter?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: October 09, 2019 04:51PM
President Vermin has had over 2 years to have people research the congressional weak spots of when Nixon was impeached. He is focusing on those points. I think the only effective way to fight that is with public opinion and the Dems are having a real battle with Vermin spending so much time normalizing his crimes on a daily basis.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: What if any punishment?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 09, 2019 07:41PM
How many Kurds have to die before some of the Senators start to feel uncomfortable with the current "President"?



Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 258
Record Number of Users: 52 on November 20, 2014
Record Number of Guests: 2330 on October 25, 2018