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About sums up the ideological differences
Posted by: PeterB
Date: November 30, 2019 06:44PM
Apologies if already posted, this is making the Fb rounds:

[threadreaderapp.com]

... I lost it when I got to the part about the Russian troll online...




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2019 06:45PM by PeterB.
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Re: About sums up the ideological differences
Posted by: deckeda
Date: November 30, 2019 10:34PM
That's pretty much it. I've read at various times this strategy is exactly what several strategists aim for:

1) Plant ridiculous story
2) Story gets picked up due to "controversy" and gains legitimacy
3) Amplified
4) Gashlight

********************

This isn't simply however "the media's fault." If a government official says/tweets something it should indeed be reported.

Where they've made grave errors over the last few years was to NOT additionally include "but it's B.S." in the same phrase or paragraph. Sometimes they've included it but many paragraphs later. Sometimes they'll include the necessary schooling but the headline doesn't allude to the B.S.

I read a lot of Washington Post and they reliably will note when what the elected politico is saying is essentially a lie.
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Re: About sums up the ideological differences
Posted by: PeterB
Date: November 30, 2019 11:25PM
Quote
deckeda
That's pretty much it. I've read at various times this strategy is exactly what several strategists aim for:

1) Plant ridiculous story
2) Story gets picked up due to "controversy" and gains legitimacy
3) Amplified
4) Gashlight

********************

This isn't simply however "the media's fault." If a government official says/tweets something it should indeed be reported.

Where they've made grave errors over the last few years was to NOT additionally include "but it's B.S." in the same phrase or paragraph. Sometimes they've included it but many paragraphs later. Sometimes they'll include the necessary schooling but the headline doesn't allude to the B.S.

I read a lot of Washington Post and they reliably will note when what the elected politico is saying is essentially a lie.

I think where the media has really screwed up is by (as the tweet puts it) legitimizing, or as others have put it, normalizing the garbage. For example, there is no such thing as "alternative facts", and the reluctance of many in the media to just call it for what it is, e.g., lies, is telling of a lack of backbone that was there previously. The media themselves are well aware that they've been normalizing, and have even commented outright that they're aware of it. Part of the reason they've lost their backbone: [www.latimes.com]

What we really need from the media right now is some very serious investigative reporting in a way that cannot be done by Congress, e.g., blowing open everything that's going on right now, in the same way that was done by Woodward and Bernstein. I can't imagine that there isn't tons and tons of dirt to be dug up right now, that is just waiting for the right person(s) with the right shovel.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: About sums up the ideological differences
Posted by: RgrF
Date: December 01, 2019 01:42AM
This was addressed by the Columbia Journalism Review in an article titled CNN public editor: The business of bunk, then debunk, the click-thru headline was The hypocrisy of CNN's one-hour special on the president’s lies
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Re: About sums up the ideological differences
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: December 01, 2019 02:30AM
Old news. Really, you'd have to be pretty checked out to not also have observed this.
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Re: About sums up the ideological differences
Posted by: RgrF
Date: December 01, 2019 04:39AM
Journalism dies when it demurs from calling bulls hit from fact. When it gives equal time to obvious lies, it's no longer journalism - it then entertainment and that's what we all want, isn't it?
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Re: About sums up the ideological differences
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 01, 2019 09:53AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Old news. Really, you'd have to be pretty checked out to not also have observed this.

True. It's just that when it gets to the point of impeachment hearings (as it has), and the media is still tuning things out, you have to wonder what the heck is going on.

And yes, the line between journalism and entertainment has become blurred ... and no, not all of us want entertainment.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: About sums up the ideological differences
Posted by: pdq
Date: December 01, 2019 12:13PM
Meh - I’ve been encouraged by the Ukraine stuff. There was a time when the papers would say Republicans allege this and that about the Bidens and Ukraine, and either leave it at that or say Joe Biden denies. Now at least, in nearly every story I read (ie not part of the wingnutosphere), this is followed by “there is no evidence of wrongdoing (by the Bidens in Ukraine)”.

Maybe these are baby steps, but they’re in the right direction.
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Re: About sums up the ideological differences
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 01, 2019 05:07PM
So ... today Sen. Kennedy was given another try at defending his comments last week about "both" Russian and Ukrainian interference in our 2016 election.

You all may recall that he tried to backtrack his Fox TV comments made earlier. But on Meet the Press, it was game on!

[www.washingtonpost.com]

Quote
WaPo
Todd then pressed Kennedy: “You realize the only other person selling this argument outside the United States is this man, Vladimir Putin. ... You have done exactly what the Russian operation is trying to get American politicians to do. Are you at all concerned that you’ve been duped?”

“No, because you — just read the articles,” Kennedy replied.

This is modern ideological differences writ large. One side responds to reality. The other side "believes" what they want.
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Re: About sums up the ideological differences
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: December 01, 2019 05:20PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
mrbigstuff
Old news. Really, you'd have to be pretty checked out to not also have observed this.

True. It's just that when it gets to the point of impeachment hearings (as it has), and the media is still tuning things out, you have to wonder what the heck is going on.

Not an ad hominem reply on my part, just an observation. Most of us here seem to be much more clued in to the psychology behind the Orange Movement than the general populace.
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Re: About sums up the ideological differences
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 01, 2019 06:21PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
PeterB
Quote
mrbigstuff
Old news. Really, you'd have to be pretty checked out to not also have observed this.

True. It's just that when it gets to the point of impeachment hearings (as it has), and the media is still tuning things out, you have to wonder what the heck is going on.

Not an ad hominem reply on my part, just an observation. Most of us here seem to be much more clued in to the psychology behind the Orange Movement than the general populace.

Don't worry, I didn't take it that way, and yes I agree that most of us here are well aware of the tactics employed by the Great Cheeto™ and his followers, the Cheesy Minions of Orthodoxy®. My point was that there seems to be a definite selective deafness/muteness on the part of the media. They need to be called out on that. Meanwhile the truth does need to come out, and if not the press, who's going to do it? There's a limit to what Congress can legally do and ask.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2019 06:22PM by PeterB.
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