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Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: May 21, 2020 12:43PM
Yeah, we all remember "God's Way"


this one needs a little more prayer





Video posted online shows Stacey Shiflett, the pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Dundalk, tearing up the warning while declaring, "We're going to do it God's way."

"With this cease-and-desist letter in my hand, the Bible says to the New Testament church 'not forsaking the assembling of yourselves together as the manner of some is, but so much more as you see the day approaching,' and the closer we get to Jesus coming back, the more church we ought to be having, not less church," Shiflett said in his sermon.

"Now that's God's parameters," he continued. "So I'm tearing up this cease-and-desist order right here, and I'm telling you right now, we're gonna do it God's way! God tells us how to worship Him, nobody else gets to do that."

Jesus loves the insane
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 21, 2020 12:52PM
Quote
Steve G.
"God tells us how to worship Him..."

Yes, he does indeed:

Quote

“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues[/churches] and on the street corners to be seen by others...But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen."
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: GGD
Date: May 21, 2020 12:59PM
In related news... Perhaps a sign from God.

"Two Southern Churches Reclose Indefinitely After Pastor Dies and Leaders, Churchgoers Catch Coronavirus"

[www.newsweek.com]
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: GGD
Date: May 21, 2020 01:12PM
And even more related news... Bill Barr doing God's work.

Justice Department warns California about its coronavirus restrictions on churches

Quote

The Justice Department states in a letter that a stay-at-home order doesn't appear to treat churches and other activities the same.

The Justice Department on Tuesday sent a letter to California Gov. Gavin Newsom expressing concerns about how soon churches will be allowed to resume in-person services and raising Constitutional issues.

The letter takes issue with state plans to allow the resumption of in-person religious services, which is scheduled to start after manufacturing and officework are allowed to resume.

It also cites a past statement from U.S. Attorney Bill Barr that says, "government may not impose special restrictions on religious activity that do not also apply to similar nonreligious activity."

Tuesday's letter also says that the state's stay-at-home order "does not appear to treat religious activities and comparable nonreligious activities the same."


[www.nbcnews.com]
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: May 21, 2020 02:35PM
There's a huge third rail in dealing with religions. Ohio dealt with this through recommendations, and then legal health and safety orders. Our local Catholic churches are working to 'opening back up', but I am not going.

Regardless of what your government is doing, stay safe. We are each responsible for our own health, and I choose not to be around people who don't give a hot damn about mine.
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 21, 2020 03:11PM
Ah, forever going after the evangelical vote. Right up until er’rybody’s dead. If there was a way to truly isolate these cults I’d be all for letting them do exactly whatever they wish.
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 21, 2020 03:16PM
Religion doesn’t need to be a third rail of politics, because some groups will always be pissed off regardless of whatever length of rope they’ve been given, such is the nature of extremism: to keep taking absurdity further.

Republicans willfully, cynically, and openly court such anarchy; it’s the coward’s way of avoiding the “controversy” of healthy leadership. Why else would a tyrant-child be their mascot?
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 21, 2020 05:32PM
Suppose a parishioner knows that he has tested positive for the coronavirus, knows he has increasingly strong symptoms of Covid-19 and asserts his religious liberty to sit in close proximity to his fellow Christians to worship. Does the "moral force" of a claim of religious liberty extend to him behaving that way?
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 21, 2020 05:53PM
Praise the Lord and pass the collection plate.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 22, 2020 09:19AM
Ted,

I doubt it. It's well known that constitutional rights can be limited. The first amendment doesn't protect someone from screaming "fire" in a movie theater.

There are laws that criminalize the spread of communicable diseases and I doubt the 1st amendment will protect someone if he/she violates them.

[vistacriminallaw.com]

Robert
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 22, 2020 10:34AM
Quote
Robert M
Ted,

I doubt it. It's well known that constitutional rights can be limited. The first amendment doesn't protect someone from screaming "fire" in a movie theater.

There are laws that criminalize the spread of communicable diseases and I doubt the 1st amendment will protect someone if he/she violates them.

[vistacriminallaw.com]

Robert

I didn't intend to frame my question in terms of law - that's why I used the phrase, "'moral force' of a claim of religious liberty". I think that people who make such claims are doing so from the perspective of religious liberty being a moral principle as much or more than from a legal justification.

I think most of us tend to want to take moral principles as absolute when we invoke them without reflecting on it much. But if we look carefully at actual application of such principles, we tend to realize that there are limits because moral principles very often come into conflict with other moral principles in a great many scenarios. Where we thought there was a clear liberty to do what we want, upon deeper inspection, we see that there is a limit to such liberties.

What I was trying to imply is that those who invoke religious liberty should realize that it's not an absolute liberty and any disagreement is not on an absolute moral principle but rather disagreements about where to draw the line that limits such liberties. I doubt very many people who invoke a principle of religious freedom would think it justifies a parishioner that knows they are very likely to be contagious coughing on an elderly person sitting next to them in the pew. So, I would ask them why they think that going to religious services where there is a greater risk of picking up the virus and spreading it and thereby endangering the lives of others isn't also a line that they shouldn't cross with respect to limiting their religious freedom.

Of course, there are those who are so enthralled by much of right wing media that they don't think that it is a fact that a closely packed congregation does increase the risk of contagion. And there are those who believe that God will protect them from getting infected and infecting others. If they take those things to be factually correct, then asking them to reflect on limits to religious freedom will surely be futile.
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: Janit
Date: May 22, 2020 10:38AM
Quote
Robert M
Ted,

I doubt it. It's well known that constitutional rights can be limited. The first amendment doesn't protect someone from screaming "fire" in a movie theater.

There are laws that criminalize the spread of communicable diseases and I doubt the 1st amendment will protect someone if he/she violates them.

[vistacriminallaw.com]

Robert

The problem is that some will not see it that way, and by the time the question is adjudicated, they will have made many other people sick by the exercise of their "rights."
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 22, 2020 10:45AM
( Ted’s question was rhetorical. )

A critical challenge I see is that many clergy need pastoring themselves. Organized religion sets them as largely independent teachers with the only “oversight” being not to knock the Company. They get a Book and some scholarly education and let ‘em have it, and expect them to be able to adapt it all to a modern audience (for those that even bother to adapt to modern audiences.)

David Platt is a pastor who used to preach to large crowds, and he wrote a piece reflecting on clergy lamenting empty church pews today.

He notes that he can see his flock without sight because he knows them. He can see the church everywhere, in the faces of healthcare workers risking their lives to save others. He can see people out of work.

The church doesn’t leave people: It’s available to all, everywhere and you don’t need a building with a steeple on top. People leave the service that fellowship represents on their own, in various ways. With or without Sunday services.

These clergy who don’t understand that are the ones I pity, and the ones who will never get a pass as they willfully endanger the public in the name of God. That’s literally blasphemy IMO.
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Re: Pastor tears up cease-and-desist over in-person services: 'We're gonna do it God's way'
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: May 22, 2020 01:16PM

Yeah, hug it out with Jesus.
(You'll see him in about 28 days)
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