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Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 23, 2020 11:05PM
At a Great Clips in Springfield, MO a hairdresser worked for 7 days. 84 customers potentially exposed.

A second employee is now sick.

[www.ky3.com]
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 24, 2020 12:32AM
91 clients, at last count.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: Lizabeth
Date: May 24, 2020 07:14AM
I have to wonder why there isn't some sort of fine levied against a business that opens against orders and infects people.

But then again you can't fine stupidity...
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 24, 2020 07:17AM
Not sure why penalties or loss of business licenses will matter a lot to the dead.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 24, 2020 07:23AM
Against orders? This is a national chain operating in a state that didn’t much close in the first place. Nothing illegal.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: space-time
Date: May 24, 2020 08:31AM
Until we have a vaccine or a proven treatment, I won't go for a haircut.

I may need to go see a dentist, but that only it is is really necessary and only because it's not a DIY thing.

But haircut I can do at home. and save $20.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 24, 2020 08:41AM
Deck,

Actually... There are laws that criminalize the spread of communicable diseases. They aren't necessarily the same for every municipality but, if one exists in Springfield, MO, the hairdressers can be brought up on criminal charges and possibly sued in civil court.

A similar situation occurred in NY:

[www.usatoday.com]

The barber is trying to get around the NYS Pause order by working from home but that doesn't make him any less liable for his actions.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2020 09:41AM by Robert M.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 24, 2020 09:33AM
Tell me when someone holds company executives personally responsible - that just doesn't happen; maybe you could enlighten me where, when and who!
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 24, 2020 09:37AM
Listen, I'm not taking Great Clips "side" here, but they didn't do anything illegal unless perhaps they knew the staffer was sick. Did they? Because I didn't read that.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 24, 2020 09:41AM
I was talking generalities Dec, nothing to do with a small salon.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 24, 2020 09:43AM
Quote
deckeda
Listen, I'm not taking Great Clips "side" here, but they didn't do anything illegal unless perhaps they knew the staffer was sick. Did they? Because I didn't read that.

I’ll grant you that; but it illustrates the fallacy of this “let individual people decide” approach in a pandemic situation. Doesn’t work.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 24, 2020 09:49AM
Deck,

You didn't check out the links included in the article? The stylists demonstrated symptoms of Covid-19 and still worked in the salon.

[health.springfieldmo.gov]

Robert
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 24, 2020 09:50AM
RgrF,

Please don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say anything about the company executives being held personally responsible for the repercussions of this situation. However, that doesn't mean the location and the staff in it are immune from liability.

Robert
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 24, 2020 11:48AM
Quote
Robert M
Deck,

You didn't check out the links included in the article? The stylists demonstrated symptoms of Covid-19 and still worked in the salon.

[health.springfieldmo.gov]

Robert

Pretty sure that was the reason I posted it in the first place, no?

Did she know she was sick with C-19? Did her employer? Did either know it was C-19? Everything above sounds like hindsight. I really doubt she tested positive first.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: May 24, 2020 11:49AM
Quote
RgrF
Tell me when someone holds company executives personally responsible - that just doesn't happen; maybe you could enlighten me where, when and who!

This makes me furious. Absolutely foaming at the mouth with spittle dripping.

If a corporation has the same rights as a human, as decided by the Supreme Court, why don't those that have made the bad decisions pay the same penalties as you and I?

One of the biggest sticking points for the next round of relief is that the Republicans are insisting on verbiage that shields businesses from liability if customers get sick. (from what I have read)



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: May 24, 2020 11:57AM
Quote
Lizabeth
I have to wonder why there isn't some sort of fine levied against a business that opens against orders and infects people.

But then again you can't fine stupidity...

Whenever you hear Republican Senators and Congresspeople and talking heads discussing the absolute need for 'liability protections' for employers - THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Usually, if a business acts recklessly and endangers its employees, customers, or the broader public, they are legally liable for damage done by their actions. The GOP is desperate to find a way to block legal action against employers, so they can "open up America" and face no consequences when people sicken and die.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 24, 2020 01:11PM
It's true, you can't put a corporation in jail.

What Repubs want is the same thing for all businesses (and business owners) regardless of circumstance.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 24, 2020 01:23PM
Deck,

Based on the information that is available, the answer to your questions is yes. And that is a huge issue,

Robert
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 24, 2020 03:06PM
Quote
Robert M
Deck,

Based on the information that is available, the answer to your questions is yes. And that is a huge issue,

Robert

OK, you have a source other than the one I linked to.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 24, 2020 04:00PM
Deck,

I look at the links included in your link. The confirmation was there.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2020 04:01PM by Robert M.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 24, 2020 07:11PM
So, no actual text in other words. I could ask why you’re pursuing this, but who has the time, right?
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 24, 2020 07:20PM
Deck,

Wy am I pursuing this? Because you ask the questions and don't seem to want to actually look at the information that provides the answers. Want actual text of just one of the series of dates at the salon? Here you go:

"While symptomatic, our case worked as a hair stylist at the Great Clips at 1864 S. Glenstone Ave. on the following dates:

Tuesday, May 12 (8:30 a.m. - 12:30 p.m.)
Wednesday, May 13 (8:30 a.m. - 1 p.m.)
Thursday, May 14 (12 p.m. - 6 p.m.)
Friday, May 15 (1 p.m. - 6 p.m.)
Saturday, May 16 (8:30 a.m. - 1 p.m.)
Sunday, May 17 (10 a.m. - 4 p.m.)
Tuesday, May 19 (12 p.m. - 6 p.m.)
Wednesday, May 20 (12 p.m. - 6 p.m.)"

[health.springfieldmo.gov]

Robert
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 24, 2020 07:27PM
Yes I know that. It’s cool she was able able retrace her steps

Did she know she had c-19, yet worked anyway?
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 24, 2020 07:44PM
Deck,

Yes. That's why the information is listed.

Robert
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 24, 2020 08:40PM
I can retrace my steps, and yet I’m not sick. What does that mean?
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: May 25, 2020 12:30PM
You two (Deckeda and Robert M) are arguing around a point, and it's super fun, but.

Robert M's standard for whether the stylist should have worked, and whether the salon should have allowed it, is clearly: the stylist showed possible symptoms of covid-19.

Deckeda's standard for whether the stylist should have worked, and whether the salon should have allowed it, is clearly: the stylist knew they were positive for covid-19/the salon was aware of the positive test result.

Which of these is the legal standard? I think Deckeda probably has the letter of the law on this point, but Robert M's position might fare better in a civil suit...



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: May 25, 2020 01:59PM
Quote
rjmacs
Which of these is the legal standard? I think Deckeda probably has the letter of the law on this point, but Robert M's position might fare better in a civil suit...

Negligence should be sufficient in most courts.

Recklessness if Great Clips employs a good attorney in a business-friendly state court.

...The legal question is whether the employee or management knew or should have known that they were putting customers and co-workers at risk.



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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 25, 2020 05:05PM
rj,

No. Deckada, for some reason, continues to dismiss the idea that the stylist(s) were working while infected with the virus and, as a result, exposing clients and staff alike. It's been confirmed by the Department of Health and why it was involved in the situation. If lawsuits are filed, it will come down to negligence and liability. If communicable disease laws become involved, criminal charges are possible. Definitely a bad situation no matter how you look at it.

FWIW, if this took place on Long Island, in my area, the salon would be shut down and fined thousands of dollars. I can say that with certainty because I've seen it happen around here to businesses in violation of NYS Governor Cuomo's PAUSE order. Not sure what the police would do about the infected employees. Wouldn't be pleasant. Of that I'm certain.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2020 05:08PM by Robert M.
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 26, 2020 06:53AM
Hi everyone,

This link pretty much says it all:

[www.msnbc.com]

Robert
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Re: Working while sick with coronavirus
Posted by: testcase
Date: May 26, 2020 08:37PM
84 people who were dying to get their hair done. eye rolling smiley
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