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Annals of the Police State
Posted by: btfc
Date: May 26, 2020 10:03PM
“ FBI investigates death of a black man in Minneapolis after video shows police officer kneeling on his neck”

[www.washingtonpost.com]



“ Video Of Fatal Arrest Shows Minneapolis Officer Kneeling On George Floyd’s Neck For Several Minutes”

[minnesota.cbslocal.com]
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: sekker
Date: May 26, 2020 10:49PM
Tear gas in Minneapolis.

Unreal.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 27, 2020 04:57AM
The four cops involved have been fired. In the end, I doubt if they will stay fired.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: May 27, 2020 06:50AM
Quote
Speedy
The four cops involved have been fired. In the end, I doubt if they will stay fired.
That act alone is unprecedented.

A clearer message would be their arrest and prosecution for murder.

There also needs to be a clear federal system where all people who carry firearms in their job must pass an extended background check. Too many over-militarized murderers are moved from town to town.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 27, 2020 06:52AM
.....it was commented that in Minneapolis cops are 'fired'........then 'rehired'.....



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: testcase
Date: May 27, 2020 10:53AM
Ummmm, MURDER requires INTENT. From what I can see in the video, it would be difficult if not impossible to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that the officers had such intent.

But, let's all jump to conclusions and throw out the presumption that a person is innocent until proven guilty. (yes, I'm being sarcastic)

BEFORE all the liberal wailing begins, all the "victim" had to do was to NOT RESIST the lawful arrest they were trying to effect ("wandering" around to avoid being placed in a squad car can be construed as trying to escape). On the street, a Law Enforcement Officer MUST prevail! Even if the arrestee or anyone else thinks the LEO is wrong, ON THE STREET is NOT the place to challenge the LEO and resist being arrested. Later in the day, the next day, the next week etc, the arrestee WILL have the opportunity at the station, the mayor's office, the news media etc to plead his/her case. AT THE SCENE, the LEOs don't know what the offender knows (ie: he just committed another crime and, if held, said crime will be discovered or, has warrants out for his arrest etc, etc, etc).

ALL people NEED to remember Rule #1: On the street, the LEO MUST prevail.

When that rule is ignored, chaos and lawlessness will be the result.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: numbered
Date: May 27, 2020 11:44AM
Wow, testcase. Just wow.

The guy was stopped because of a non violent charge. He was taken down and cuffed. So while I agree with your general point, you are the one ignoring facts.

And while down on the street, cuffed, the cop was kneeling on his neck for several minutes. Was this because of some imminent danger from a suspect for a non violent charge? Really? Is that what you are claiming?

And why were the three colleagues silent? Is it possible that this particular cop-perp was, well, a violent offender in his own right and his colleagues were afraid of him (and the union.)?

In the animal rescue world there is an understanding about the personality type that 'must be obeyed.' They get violent with animals even if the animal has no idea about what is expected because their outrage overcomes their sense. (This is also an issue in child abuse.)

We see more and more cops with this personality flaw, this need to be obeyed.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: Ammo
Date: May 27, 2020 11:52AM
This was murder, plain and simple. The victim was cuffed and subdued. The cop had more than enough time to get his knee off the neck of a man who was clearly struggling to breathe. The victim said this himself and bystanders clearly called this out. The arresting officer knew all of this yet chose not to let the victim breathe. If that’s not intent, I don’t know what is. The other 3 cops who let him do this were accessories to murder.

EDIT: The argument that you have nothing to fear if you cooperate with with the police doesn’t apply to black men.



Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. —Wendy Mass

Until you make your unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate. - Carl Jung



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2020 12:18PM by Ammo.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 27, 2020 11:57AM
....I concur....he repeatedly said he could not breathe but the officer would not remove his knee.....additional footage was release of what happened right before the incident and the victim was not resisting arrest.....


.....unfortunately, as with the case in NY, the officer(s) will not get any charges.....they lose their jobs but no justice......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: sekker
Date: May 27, 2020 12:00PM
testcase, I sure hope you can pause and listen.

I lived 8 years in Baltimore.

I've seen completely passive young black men be treated as assumed violent by police when the young men did NOTHING wrong.

This is America in 2020 (and for most of our history).
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 27, 2020 12:10PM
As someone from the area, this continued carnage (Philando Castille, Jamar Clark, Desiree Collins, Frank Baker, Glenn Slaughter...) is unbearable.

Minneapolis is where Hubert Humphrey held his first elected position (Mayor), before his famous speech at the Democratic convention of 1948 which began the long-overdue process of dragging his party (kicking and screaming) out of the darkness of its racist past, and before he was part of the driving force behind the Civil Rights Act.

It's just grotesque. This has to stop.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: May 27, 2020 12:16PM
There are always apologists for killer cops. It's part of the system that keeps them immune.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: Rolando
Date: May 27, 2020 01:34PM
#killmongerwasright



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: numbered
Date: May 27, 2020 02:36PM
Note also that there is an arb clause in the union contact. Quite a few locals are saying that under the arb clause these guys will likely be reinstated with back benefits.

I am not sure there are more evil institutions in the world than police unions.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: May 27, 2020 02:40PM
Quote
numbered
Note also that there is an arb clause in the union contact. Quite a few locals are saying that under the arb clause these guys will likely be reinstated with back benefits.

I am not sure there are more evil institutions in the world than police unions.

The state legislatures that hide their crimes behind 'Law Enforcement Bill of Rights' laws that make all investigations of cops private and privileged personnel records by default.

Oh, and there are the folks who elected those legislators into office. Damn, that's us.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: btfc
Date: May 27, 2020 02:56PM
“ Minneapolis police kill black people 13 times more than white people “

[news.yahoo.com]
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: bfd
Date: May 27, 2020 03:33PM
Quote
testcase


ALL people NEED to remember Rule #1: On the street, the LEO MUST prevail. smiley-laughing001

When that rule is ignored, chaos and lawlessness will be the result.facepalm

The pig had his knee on the guys neck - the guy was not resisting.
The pig kept his knee there - on the guys neck - for minutes - well past any reasonable point that kind of restraint was needed.
The pig had backup on the spot. There was no danger to him or his gang.

This horrible case clearly shows how a name like "PIG" is earned…. This pig needs far more punishment than being banished from one PD. He'll simply move to another city and take his piggish ways with him. While that may help the population he leaves, it sure doesn't help the next one he lands on.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 27, 2020 05:25PM
What was particularly galling, I thought, was the body language of the guy putting the knee on the neck. He looked completely unconcerned, like holding his knee to a guy’s neck til he lost consciousness was just part of a routine day.

He may not have been feeling that way inside, but that’s sure what he looked like.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: AllGold
Date: May 27, 2020 07:21PM
Today the mayor called for the county prosecutor to file charges, saying:

Quote

Why is the man who killed George Floyd not in jail? If you had done it or I had done it, we would be behind bars right now.



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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 27, 2020 09:26PM
Quote
testcase
... From what I can see in the video...

Oh golly. It’s always the premise that’s flawed. And then the rest is just hate and resulting gibberish.

No. Your mind was clearly made up without the video. But if I’m wrong please let me know when the next person wears a shirt that literally spells out their intent. I’m not aware of any court that would require it. Rather, courts look at circumstance (we hope.)

Most cops try to diffuse situations and have a modicum of respect for who they encounter. It’s basic human decency. But it’s also training. There’s no reconciling that truth with what Mr. Knee did. None.

You get bonus points for condemning the rights of humans as a “liberal” flaw and for fetishizing the boys in blue with acronyms (“LEO”). So quaintly righteous and indignant. I sure hope we didn’t offend you terribly. Your burden is clearly real.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 27, 2020 09:40PM
Quote
bfd

The pig had his knee on the guys neck - the guy was not resisting.
The pig kept his knee there - on the guys neck - for minutes - well past any reasonable point that kind of restraint was needed.
The pig had backup on the spot. There was no danger to him or his gang.

This horrible case clearly shows how a name like "PIG" is earned…. This pig needs far more punishment than being banished from one PD. He'll simply move to another city and take his piggish ways with him. While that may help the population he leaves, it sure doesn't help the next one he lands on.

How do you manage to coexist in your area of the state?
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: testcase
Date: May 27, 2020 10:37PM
"....he repeatedly said he could not breathe"


If a person can talk, they can breathe. That's why, BEFORE a Heimlich maneuver is performed, the rescuer ASKS the victim "can you speak"? Ability to speak = ability to breathe.

I am NOT saying that how the police acted was the best way to deal with a difficult situation BUT, I am also NOT going to throw anyone "under the bus" until a THOROUGH INVESTIGATION has been performed and carefully reviewed. Something that cannot be done via a media circus. Video clips are just that, CLIPS. They do NOT tell the whole story. I will withhold final judgement until after a proper investigation and review have been completed. It sounds though that most forumites posting here have rushed to judgement and don't want to be confused by any pesky details that don't jibe with their preconceptions. And YOU probably wonder why America is SO screwed up.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 27, 2020 10:39PM
Who'll do that investigation, in far too many cases in ends up the police investigating the police.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: btfc
Date: May 27, 2020 11:21PM
"Three minutes into the video, Floyd’s body becomes motionless as the officer continues to apply his knee on the man’s neck. Paramedics were called, but the officer didn’t stop applying pressure to Floyd’s neck until he was lifted onto a stretcher"

He was neither talking nor moving and the cop continued to keep his knee on the guy's neck. What part of that don't you comprehend?
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: AllGold
Date: May 27, 2020 11:25PM
Quote
btfc
"Three minutes into the video, Floyd’s body becomes motionless as the officer continues to apply his knee on the man’s neck. Paramedics were called, but the officer didn’t stop applying pressure to Floyd’s neck until he was lifted onto a stretcher"

He was neither talking nor moving and the cop continued to keep his knee on the guy's neck. What part of that don't you comprehend?

And further, how is a knee on the neck of a handcuffed person proper police procedure?



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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: JoeH
Date: May 28, 2020 12:54AM
Quote
testcase
If a person can talk, they can breathe. That's why, BEFORE a Heimlich maneuver is performed, the rescuer ASKS the victim "can you speak"? Ability to speak = ability to breathe.

BS - it only means they can expel some small amount of air, it is no indication that enough air is able to be breathed in. In the case you bring up, for a Heimlich you might not use the maneuver because she air is passing in. But some obstructions are one way, and the Heimlich needs to be used before there is not enough air volume in the lungs to be use to push out the blockage. But you would not further obstruct breathing like that idiot or worse officer did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2020 01:04AM by JoeH.
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: btfc
Date: May 28, 2020 01:04AM
KARE 11 Investigates: Earlier Minneapolis police restraint death:

[www.kare11.com]


KARE 11 Investigates: Use of force experts question officer’s actions:

[www.kare11.com]
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: May 28, 2020 11:56AM
Quote
testcase
And YOU probably wonder why America is SO screwed up.

I wonder how your apologism sounds in the case of Ahmaud Arbery's murder.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Annals of the Police State
Posted by: bfd
Date: May 29, 2020 06:37PM
Quote
RgrF
Quote
bfd

The pig had his knee on the guys neck - the guy was not resisting.
The pig kept his knee there - on the guys neck - for minutes - well past any reasonable point that kind of restraint was needed.
The pig had backup on the spot. There was no danger to him or his gang.

This horrible case clearly shows how a name like "PIG" is earned…. This pig needs far more punishment than being banished from one PD. He'll simply move to another city and take his piggish ways with him. While that may help the population he leaves, it sure doesn't help the next one he lands on.

How do you manage to coexist in your area of the state?

It ain't the same as it was when you remember it… There are still a few enclaves - Klantee, and a few other isolated inland areas, but the majority now is much less indulgent of the police state.
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