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Clemon's national reputation was built by Black athletes, and they want Confederate names off the campus. Let's do it.
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 18, 2020 03:17PM
My new favorite elected official is State Rep Todd Rutherford (D-Richland) who says that Clemson University Trustees, who earlier voted to take the name of John C Calhoun off their Honors Program, should just go ahead and rename Tillman Hall back to its original name without waiting for the state's legislators to act.

He said that Clemson's national reputation has been built by Black athletes. Those same athletes are asking for these changes.

Ben Tillman was a notorious white supremacist governor of the Reconstruction era who opposed civil rights for Black Americans and went as far as supporting lynch mobs. So yeah the largest building at a state university should not be named for him.



SC has a "Heritage Act" that requires a 2/3rds majority in the House and Senate to approve removal of statues or name changes to state owned property. I doubt this act would hold up in court, so I agree with Rep Rutherford, change the name and just say "sue us."

The usual white suspects oppose the changes. The excuse is "where will these demands stop? Will we have to change the US flag?!?!" They just don't matter any more. Just change the name already.
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Re: Clemon's national reputation was built by Black athletes, and they want Confederate names off the campus. Let's do it.
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: June 18, 2020 03:22PM
It's Clemson, so they likely won't do much if they think it will piss off the athletic boosters. But I'm all for it!



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Clemon's national reputation was built by Black athletes, and they want Confederate names off the campus. Let's do it.
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: June 18, 2020 04:26PM
Their coach is creepy.
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Re: Clemon's national reputation was built by Black athletes, and they want Confederate names off the campus. Let's do it.
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 18, 2020 04:28PM
Quote
Dennis S
Their coach is creepy.

I always cheer for Clemson's opponent.

That being said, I 100% support this effort to get the names of white supremacists off their buildings and programs.
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Re: Clemon's national reputation was built by Black athletes, and they want Confederate names off the campus. Let's do it.
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 19, 2020 09:21AM
Uh, what about the name “Clemson” itself?

“Thomas Green Clemson (July 1, 1807 – April 6, 1888) was an American politician and statesman, serving as an ambassador and the United States Superintendent of Agriculture. He served in the Confederate States Army.”

“From 1860 to 1861, Clemson served in the Buchanan administration as Superintendent of Agriculture. As the threat of civil war became a reality, Clemson resigned this post on March 4, 1861. He stood on the side of his adopted state. Following the firing on Fort Sumter on April 12, 1861, Clemson left Maryland for South Carolina. In Pendleton on November 2, 1861, Clemson spoke to the Farmers Society and publicly "Urged the establishment of a department of agriculture in the government of the Confederate States...”

“Fifty-four-year-old Clemson, enlisted in the Confederate States Army and was assigned to the Army of the Trans-Mississippi Department. Clemson worked in Arkansas and Texas developing nitrate mines for explosives. He was paroled on June 9, 1865 at Shreveport, Louisiana, after four years of service. His son, Captain John Calhoun Clemson, also enlisted in the Confederate States Army and spent two years in a Union prison camp on Johnson's Island, in Lake Erie, Ohio. He was a First Lieutenant in the Confederate Army.”

[en.m.wikipedia.org]
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Re: Clemon's national reputation was built by Black athletes, and they want Confederate names off the campus. Let's do it.
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: June 19, 2020 11:44AM
The Confederacy is alive and well in the minds of many here in the deep South. Depriving people of their heroes could well lead to a new secession movement, in which case they’ll probably declare our current Prez their President for Life. If that happens, I’m moving back up North.
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Re: Clemon's national reputation was built by Black athletes, and they want Confederate names off the campus. Let's do it.
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: June 19, 2020 12:40PM
Quote
S. Pupp
The Confederacy is alive and well in the minds of many here in the deep South. Depriving people of their heroes could well lead to a new secession movement, in which case they’ll probably declare our current Prez their President for Life. If that happens, I’m moving back up North.

You could rotate back with General Sherman's troops.
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Re: Clemon's national reputation was built by Black athletes, and they want Confederate names off the campus. Let's do it.
Posted by: Rolando
Date: June 20, 2020 11:56AM
“Thomas Green Clemson (July 1, 1807 – April 6, 1888) was an American politician and statesman, serving as an ambassador and the United States Superintendent of Agriculture. He served in the Confederate States Army.”

I'm not sure SERVING in the confederate (not capitalized on purpose) army is a disqualifier by itself. Being a grunt is being a grunt, as it were.

“From 1860 to 1861, Clemson served in the Buchanan administration as Superintendent of Agriculture. As the threat of civil war became a reality, Clemson resigned this post on March 4, 1861. He stood on the side of his adopted state. Following the firing on Fort Sumter on April 12, 1861, Clemson left Maryland for South Carolina. In Pendleton on November 2, 1861, Clemson spoke to the Farmers Society and publicly "Urged the establishment of a department of agriculture in the government of the Confederate States...”
But being a traitor...turning your back on the Constitution whether as an Army Officer or Civilian Member of Govt, that's something else.

“Fifty-four-year-old Clemson, enlisted in the Confederate States Army and was assigned to the Army of the Trans-Mississippi Department. Clemson worked in Arkansas and Texas developing nitrate mines for explosives. He was paroled on June 9, 1865 at Shreveport, Louisiana, after four years of service. His son, Captain John Calhoun Clemson, also enlisted in the Confederate States Army and spent two years in a Union prison camp on Johnson's Island, in Lake Erie, Ohio. He was a First Lieutenant in the Confederate Army.”

But, he did his thing and founded the University afterwards. This reminds me of current day 'cancel culture'. I wonder what his son did to earn Prison time.

EDIT: Thanks to rj and Deus. the wikipedia page did not mention 'prisoner of war' but that makes sense.



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 04:32PM by Rolando.
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Re: Clemon's national reputation was built by Black athletes, and they want Confederate names off the campus. Let's do it.
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: June 20, 2020 12:05PM
Quote
Rolando
But, he did his thing and founded the University afterwards. This reminds me of current day 'cancel culture'. I wonder what his son did to earn Prison time.

Well, he DID technically "found" an all-male, all-white university that stayed all-male until 1955 and all-white until 1963. Thanks to Margaret Marie Snider and Harvey Gantt for desegregating the school. But only if you call "founding" something putting it in your will, for someone else to do after you're dead.

Clemson, a slave-owning Quaker, said that "My experience tells me that the Institution of slavery is at all times good for the Negro (no laborers in the world are so well off.)"

The name can go.

Edit: also, re: his son - I'm pretty sure that serving in the Confederate military was qualification enough for entry into a Union prison camp during the war.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2020 12:40PM by rjmacs.
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Re: Clemon's national reputation was built by Black athletes, and they want Confederate names off the campus. Let's do it.
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 20, 2020 12:53PM
Quote
rjmacs
Edit: also, re: his son - I'm pretty sure that serving in the Confederate military was qualification enough for entry into a Union prison camp during the war.

Simplest, most likely answer; he got captured.
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