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Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 08, 2020 09:13AM
RollingEyesSmiley5

Yes, because the idea of working parents trying to find some way to take care of their kids at home again (and get them educated at home) in the fall is just so darn popular.

From a guy that has a pathological tendency toward projection, this has to take the cake.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 08, 2020 09:15AM
Now if we were teaching Fetuses... well, THAT would be a different thing. But one the little boogers are born, they are Enemies Of The State.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 08, 2020 10:06AM
I’m less worried about the kids than their parents and teachers and all the other adults in their towns, that will eventually get infected through mandatory daily attendance of the kids at the germ exchange.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 08, 2020 10:26AM
The Dems want to keep the youth alive because young people tend to vote liberally when they become 18. So that makes it political to the GOP.

Very forward-thinking on Trump's part.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: GGD
Date: July 08, 2020 10:44AM
He said the exact same thing about masks. I guess not wanting people to die is political and makes him look bad.

[www.businessinsider.com]

Quote

Trump says he thinks some Americans are wearing masks to show they disapprove of him and not as a preventive measure during the pandemic

President Donald Trump told The Wall Street Journal that he believes that some Americans are wearing masks during the coronavirus pandemic not to protect others but simply to show that they disapprove of him.
...
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 08, 2020 10:46AM
The actual quote:

Quote

Trump said at a White House event on reopening schools safely. "We don't want people to make political statements or do it for political reasons. They think it's going to be good for them politically, so they keep the schools closed,"

Apart from the obvious farce that Trump pretends to be offended at doing things for political reasons, can anyone tell me who would think keeping schools closed (and presenting another obstacle for millions of working (and voting) parents) would be good for them politically?

This is just such transparent projection.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 08, 2020 11:00AM
...and today His Orangeness wonders why:

Quote
Trump tweet
In Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and many other countries, SCHOOLS ARE OPEN WITH NO PROBLEMS.

...um...mayyyybe because they're not living in a country where Covid is exploding for lack of a coherent national strategy and a leader who keeps pretending it doesn't exist?

Y'know. Just a guess.

...and, as if on cue, a few minutes later he tweets:

Quote

I disagree with @CDCgov on their very tough & expensive guidelines for opening schools. While they want them open, they are asking schools to do very impractical things. I will be meeting with them!!!

Imagine that. The president, having to go and meet with the CDC during a pandemic. This is probably going to cut into his golf time, dammit.

I also like how the right seems to have adopted the talking point that "kids are safer in school". A few may be (notwithstanding Columbine, Sandy Hook, etc) but their parents and society in general are most definitely not going to be safer if these kids go and sit in close confines with 30 to several hundred classmates every day, and bring covid home...
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 08, 2020 11:54AM
Schools being closed is the end of his political career, and he knows it. The cost for everyone to home school is Ginormous. That is more proximal than the deaths - those will come later, Oct or Nov. So long as those are after the election, he's fine.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 08, 2020 01:00PM
Speaking as an educator, the whole school issue is a no-win.

Virtual learning is not going to work for many (most) students. They just do not have the home guidance, maturity, and work ethic to succeed. that became apparent this past spring. Students need to be in a structured classroom to learn. Talk to teachers, they will tell you the same.

The CDC guidelines are not workable in the real world. Schools do not have the money to create the additional space needed for classrooms, quadruple the number of buses, hire additional teachers. Lunchrooms are already stretched for seating (Lunch at my school starts at 10:30 and goes to 1:30), there is no way to space it out. Taking food to classrooms creates a whole different set of issues starting with pest management from spilled food. Even if the money did exist, you simply cannot get the buses, and classroom space together in less than a year. There are only three bus manufacturers in the US, think they can make 1,000,000 news buses by Labor Day?

Cancel school? you are throwing away a generation of youth, if not several generations.

Homeschool? maybe for some but most parents are not equipped to do it.

Finally, putting students back in schools as if nothing has happened is not going to be viable either. There will be outbreaks and deaths, but it may be the only option under the old needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: Ted King
Date: July 08, 2020 01:18PM
They could have half the students go to school one day and alternate the other half the next day. Or a three day rotation where they would then only have one third of the students in the classroom on any given day. Not a good plan, but maybe better than many alternatives. Such a scheme wouldn't help parents who need school to be full-time daycare, though.

I am concerned about a trend in schools that was evident even before the pandemic - that is where the students move through the curriculum on a rigid schedule. There was always a problem with the rigid schedule notion because it didn't account enough for many students needing more time before they acquired adequate mastery of a skill before moving on to another skill that required mastery of the previous skill. Dealing with coronavirus in schools is likely to exacerbate that problem. We may need to find a way to more individualize instruction based on the mastery of skills an individual student actual has rather than where the school is on the academic calendar.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 08, 2020 02:19PM
I wish closing schools was the way to get rid of him. That'd be easier than an election.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: July 08, 2020 02:43PM
My newly minted teenager talked briefly about this last night. She HATED going to school from home. Her teachers did the best they could. And she is a sharp student, so we left her to her own devices and it worked out fine. Relatively speaking.

But she neither wants to do home learning nor does she want to go to a potential pandemic explosion. So we're stuck. Sure, kids are less suseptible bnut last I checked, adults worked at schools too. They cooked lunch. They drove busses. They cleaned the halls. I asked how she would feel if just a single person, that she KNEW, got sick and died. All b/c schools were forced to open. How many deaths are ok?

I feel like this has really exposed the chasms in our educational system. We've always known there were issues, but it was easy to ignore. For me, I cannot understand that in this day and age, how every assignment, every book, every piece of paper, or worksheet or syllabus isn't available in digital format online somewhere. The fact that teachers have to use these cobbled together "apps" for grading and assignments is horrid. They barely work and don't have even a quarter of the needed info to do ANYTHING.

The closer we get to school starting (for us, it is August 17) the sicker I am feeling. I know my kid will persevere. But I think we are the exception, not the rule. We have one child. She has an iPad and a laptop. We have a fast internet connection. My wife works from home. We have the perfect storm of her being able to succeed at distance or virtual learning. But like I said, we are the exception. But even worse, is that there is absolutely zero infrastructure to fully support distance or virtual learning. At least to the point that it actually makes a difference in her educational growth.




__________________________________
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 08, 2020 03:13PM
Quote
bazookaman
My newly minted teenager talked briefly about this last night. She HATED going to school from home. Her teachers did the best they could. And she is a sharp student, so we left her to her own devices and it worked out fine. Relatively speaking.

But she neither wants to do home learning nor does she want to go to a potential pandemic explosion. So we're stuck. Sure, kids are less suseptible bnut last I checked, adults worked at schools too. They cooked lunch. They drove busses. They cleaned the halls. I asked how she would feel if just a single person, that she KNEW, got sick and died. All b/c schools were forced to open. How many deaths are ok?

I feel like this has really exposed the chasms in our educational system. We've always known there were issues, but it was easy to ignore. For me, I cannot understand that in this day and age, how every assignment, every book, every piece of paper, or worksheet or syllabus isn't available in digital format online somewhere. The fact that teachers have to use these cobbled together "apps" for grading and assignments is horrid. They barely work and don't have even a quarter of the needed info to do ANYTHING.

The closer we get to school starting (for us, it is August 17) the sicker I am feeling. I know my kid will persevere. But I think we are the exception, not the rule. We have one child. She has an iPad and a laptop. We have a fast internet connection. My wife works from home. We have the perfect storm of her being able to succeed at distance or virtual learning. But like I said, we are the exception. But even worse, is that there is absolutely zero infrastructure to fully support distance or virtual learning. At least to the point that it actually makes a difference in her educational growth.

What a great perspective. This is definitely a challenging time.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 08, 2020 03:15PM
The Trump administration is 100% behind homeschooling. I read that last year. Now with a deadly virus in the wild they want all kids back in school. Makes perfect sense.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 08, 2020 05:51PM
Quote
bazookaman
My newly minted teenager talked briefly about this last night. She HATED going to school from home. Her teachers did the best they could. And she is a sharp student, so we left her to her own devices and it worked out fine. Relatively speaking.

But she neither wants to do home learning nor does she want to go to a potential pandemic explosion. So we're stuck. Sure, kids are less suseptible bnut last I checked, adults worked at schools too. They cooked lunch. They drove busses. They cleaned the halls. I asked how she would feel if just a single person, that she KNEW, got sick and died. All b/c schools were forced to open. How many deaths are ok?

I feel like this has really exposed the chasms in our educational system. We've always known there were issues, but it was easy to ignore. For me, I cannot understand that in this day and age, how every assignment, every book, every piece of paper, or worksheet or syllabus isn't available in digital format online somewhere. The fact that teachers have to use these cobbled together "apps" for grading and assignments is horrid. They barely work and don't have even a quarter of the needed info to do ANYTHING.

The closer we get to school starting (for us, it is August 17) the sicker I am feeling. I know my kid will persevere. But I think we are the exception, not the rule. We have one child. She has an iPad and a laptop. We have a fast internet connection. My wife works from home. We have the perfect storm of her being able to succeed at distance or virtual learning. But like I said, we are the exception. But even worse, is that there is absolutely zero infrastructure to fully support distance or virtual learning. At least to the point that it actually makes a difference in her educational growth.

I am having to deal with all of these issues personally because there is a very good chance that I will be doing 100% online teaching this coming Fall, even if my institution reopens. I've now undergone training for teaching an online course (including certification of a sort) and conversion of a normally-in person course to online format. It's made me have to "stretch" as an instructor and think outside the box, that's for sure.

All this being said, there is NO question in my mind that online teaching will not be as effective as in-person and that I'd much rather be doing the latter -- I miss the in-person interaction with my students, and responding to a talking head on a screen is NOT the same as physically being there. In my particular case, I just don't want to be risking my life for the job -- which is what I'd literally be doing in my case (as many of you already know, I'm in a higher risk category). I will do my darnedest to make sure that my students get as good an education out of it as possible under the circumstances.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2020 05:52PM by PeterB.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: July 08, 2020 09:39PM
Local system here have made it clear that kids are going back in-person come h3ll or high water roughly 6 weeks from now.

Because of finances there's little accommodation that can be done, as other posters note.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: Sam3
Date: July 09, 2020 04:17AM
My 16 y.o. daughter's experience was quite the opposite, she enjoyed distance learning. Granted, not all teachers actually taught, but her main ones, the AP classes did. What she liked was her ability to schedule homework deadlines based upon her needs, not on how K-12 teachers normally do, when each teacher gives a set deadline, and if it conflicts with another teacher's deadline, too bad. The way her distance learning classes were set up, was more college-styled, which gave students more autonomy. Right now she is doing three virtual classes per day, these are her heritage school classes, she has literature, language and ethics and she is fine with that. However, she has said that 3 hours in front of a computer screen is max for her, if full-time distance learning were to happen, she's not sure how she'd cope being in front of a computer screen for 6 hours, plus more computer time doing homework. We/she may be the exception, as some of her friends couldn't be bothered with doing any remote learning, they were OK with taking the grades that they had mid-March.



The arts are not luxuries but assets that give way more than they cost.
--Ronald Tucker on YouTube

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
--Frank Zappa
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 09, 2020 08:05AM
One issue that hasn't been addressed is the bad message sent with grades during the last term. When districts saw how poorly students were doing with distance learning, grades were forgiven and everyone passed with the midterm grade they had prior (an educational non-participation award).

That sent the message to students that they could slack off, not do any work and still pass. It will be difficult to get them to take this upcoming years work seriously if it remains virtual.

Likewise, teachers will be reluctant to go all out on assignments and grading if it is all going to be ignored like last year. I have spoken to several teachers who busted their butt to create online lessons only to have students never do a thing and still pass the course. They are mad and disgusted by the school district for insisting on teacher effort but not holding students accountable.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: Sam3
Date: July 09, 2020 08:39AM
Quote
Ombligo
One issue that hasn't been addressed is the bad message sent with grades during the last term. When districts saw how poorly students were doing with distance learning, grades were forgiven and everyone passed with the midterm grade they had prior (an educational non-participation award).

That sent the message to students that they could slack off, not do any work and still pass. It will be difficult to get them to take this upcoming years work seriously if it remains virtual.

Likewise, teachers will be reluctant to go all out on assignments and grading if it is all going to be ignored like last year. I have spoken to several teachers who busted their butt to create online lessons only to have students never do a thing and still pass the course. They are mad and disgusted by the school district for insisting on teacher effort but not holding students accountable.

I'm not sure if I agree with that assessment. If the kid is failing at midterm, he failed the class (if they gave out midterm grades.) Our school district had teachers who modified their lesson plans, and those who participated and did the work got a grade boost. So if they had a "D" at midterms, providing they put in the work, they could end the year with a "C". Granted not all kids did, and yes, that was a problem, but to say they got a gimme is not accurate. The flip side is that not all teachers taught during the shutdown, by daughter had two teachers who gave them non-binding assignments, like "read an article related to the field that you would like to go into." But the teacher didn't ask for any assessment from the students; no paper, no notes. My daughter had a bad grade in one class, she asked what she could do to get a grade boost and never got a reply.



The arts are not luxuries but assets that give way more than they cost.
--Ronald Tucker on YouTube

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
--Frank Zappa
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 09, 2020 09:04AM
The question is not whether kids do better in schools. I think for most kids that answer is clear.

The question is, do we send them all back as usual and pretend that there is no Coronavirus? This will almost certainly facilitate spread. Most of the kids that get infected will probably do fine, but they will also bring it back to their homes and out into the community.

If you’re a teacher (I’m not, BTW), do you go into a situation which may well be life-threatening? Should you be fired if you object?

There’s no easy answers here. Trump is not only pretending that there are, he’s insisting on 5-days-a-week, face-to-face, which is a recipe for continued tragedy.

And he’s doing it for transparently political reasons.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 09, 2020 12:17PM
Quote
pdq
The question is not whether kids do better in schools. I think for most kids that answer is clear.

The question is, do we send them all back as usual and pretend that there is no Coronavirus? This will almost certainly facilitate spread. Most of the kids that get infected will probably do fine, but they will also bring it back to their homes and out into the community.

If you’re a teacher (I’m not, BTW), do you go into a situation which may well be life-threatening? Should you be fired if you object?

There’s no easy answers here. Trump is not only pretending that there are, he’s insisting on 5-days-a-week, face-to-face, which is a recipe for continued tragedy.

And he’s doing it for transparently political reasons.

There are no good answers to these questions, I can tell you that much.

I can already see that there are going to be massive problems with trying to get everyone to come back in person. Some schools are already asking teachers to sign waivers that they cannot sue if they come down with it -- I think that's absurd, but what happens if you're not willing to sign? It's a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't kind of situation.

And I agree also that online teaching/learning is inherently nowhere near as good as in person... so we will have to take a loss for at least a semester or two, in terms of what the students are learning. As for holding the students accountable, I actually think that now that online will have already been done for at least part of a semester, any excuses the students might have are probably not going to fly. Also, there's a definite push in terms of online learning to convert things like regular quizzes and tests into things like assignments, which cannot be cheated on (at least, not as easily), and which don't have to be proctored. I don't quite agree with that idea myself, because it drastically increases the grading workload ... and students get upset very easily if they don't do well on an assignment or take-home that has any form of subjective grading. The flip side is that they definitely seem to do worse on online tests and quizzes than in person... I can personally attest to that.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: July 09, 2020 12:51PM
If every kid had access to the interwebs and some kind of computing machine and the instructors were distance learning savvy then virtual learning would work. And probably great. Immediately? Probably not. But fairly quickly. We just know how things have always been done and it's anathema to think that there is another way. Better? Worse? Who's to say. It's hard to judge if there is no frame of reference.

But all this costs money. And there is none. Schools are falling apart. Kids share books, desks, everything b/c the teachers cannot afford to buy things they need out of their own pocket. It's just pathetic.

But I honestly believe if the infrastructure was there, it would be possible to get a good education virtually. Unfortunately, that infrastructure isn't going to materialize in 6 weeks.

I can't see returning to fulltime school as anything other than a massive shitshow.




__________________________________
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: davemchine
Date: July 10, 2020 10:12AM
It's been a mixed bag at our house. My daughters enjoyed not having to get up and go to school and deal with all the social issues at school. They did not enjoy trying to do homework without receiving any instruction from their teachers. I worry about the lack of interaction with friends and dating opportunities. One thing that life is never short of is things to worry about. I've never spent more time in prayer in my life as there seems to be more questions than ever before and no clear roadmap.
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Re: Trump says Dems want to keep schools closed for political reasons
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 10, 2020 10:53AM
Posted to another thread but it belongs here as well.

Dr. Ashish Jha, the head of the Harvard Global Health Institute and frequent guest on the TV news circuit during the coronavirus pandemic, decried the prospect of fully reopening schools in dual conversations with CNN’s Pamela Brown and Chris Cuomo Wednesday evening..
...If we don’t do the things that the [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] is asking for and more, the schools will all be shut by Columbus Day, and they will be shut for long periods of time


If what he anticipates comes to be, it would seem prudent to have kids enrolled online for at least the first semester or two this Fall. Then decide about their return. Kids are super social animals and balancing those needs with their long term safety has always been a parental challenge but never so much as it is today.
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