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What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 08:43AM
I only ask because apparently the president plans to make fighting this a cornerstone of his second term (the one that isn't going to happen because we will cancel him on Nov. 3).


Conservatives/GOPers/Trumpians seem to think it means anytime someone they like is disagreed with very publicly. When they disagree with somebody apparently it's fine.

Liberals get labeled with this when there is either online shaming of someone (i.e. J K Rowling) or a speech gets cancelled because the host audience doesn't like the views of the speaker. etc.

As long as we have social media - I don't think people are going to stop using that as a platform to shame others.

As for speakers, say at a university, the school can bring in or not bring in whomever they please. Nobody has the "right" to speak anyplace they want.

As for bringing in many voices representing the spectrum of views, I'm all for that, but not all views have to be given a platform, especially if they lean towards hate, discrimination, etc. That may be the crux of all this - how we value, or disdain, or people's points of view.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: davester
Date: August 05, 2020 09:17AM
The best example of cancel culture is when someone responding to a question says "That's a nasty question, you're fake news!"



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: August 05, 2020 09:19AM
Boycotting the NFL because a player kneeled.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 09:33AM
Quote
davester
The best example of cancel culture is when someone responding to a question says "That's a nasty question, you're fake news!"


I can't wait to have a real President again.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: pdq
Date: August 05, 2020 09:36AM
The latest focus-group-tested, PR-approved scare term from the right.

Period.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 09:38AM
Quote
pdq
The latest focus-group-tested, PR-approved scare term from the right.

Period.

The new "politically correct."
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: pdq
Date: August 05, 2020 10:12AM
Benedict Arnold had a admirable war record before he became a traitor to his country. There are no glorious statues in honor to him*, yet he has hardly been wiped (or “cancelled”) from our history.

*There is, in fact, a small statue of a boot in Saratoga, NY, commemorating Benedict Arnold’s previously honorable service (and foot/leg injury) in the Battle of Saratoga, before he turned traitor. But it doesn’t bear his name or visage.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: PeterB
Date: August 05, 2020 10:18AM
Quote
pdq
The latest focus-group-tested, PR-approved scare term from the right.

Period.

This. Add it to the list of Orange Dump Orwellian doublespeak, along with "fake news", "alternative facts", and "it's under control".




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: August West
Date: August 05, 2020 10:24AM
Following up on pdq's post, Damnatio Memoriae



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Ted King
Date: August 05, 2020 10:25AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
pdq
The latest focus-group-tested, PR-approved scare term from the right.

Period.

The new "politically correct."

That was my first thought when I started reading about "cancel culture". Same idea, new packaging.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 05, 2020 10:35AM
It's what people complain about when they're caught doing something morally questionable or outright illegal and are expected to face genuine consequences.



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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 05, 2020 11:41AM
As usual, it's the Reflection technique.... the Trumplicans are attempting to cancel anything that offends the Orange Toddler. Up to and including the lives of hundreds of thousands of American citizens.... Here's a small list

[www.cnn.com]
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: August 05, 2020 12:31PM
“When I see people kneeling during the playing and disrespecting our flag and disrespecting our national anthem, what I do personally is turn off the game and the ratings for basketball are way down,” Trump said.

“I hear some others are way down too, including baseball. All of a sudden now baseball is in the act. We have to stand up for our flag, we have to stand up for our country, we have to stand up for our anthem and a lot of people agree with me. Hey, if I am wrong, then I am going to lose an election and that’s OK with me. I am always going to stand for our country and flag.”
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: kj
Date: August 05, 2020 12:43PM
I actually think there is more to this issue than presented here. Joe Rogan was recently cancelled, and he has nothing to do with Trump. I would be the last one to defend Joe Rogan's general "thing", but there really is something very intolerant about current progressive-ism. There is an article by Andrew Sullivan, who I have a lot in common with idea-wise, and who was also recently cancelled, that discusses pretty much this topic, and I find it very interesting, and important.
Not everything is relevant only to Trump.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: August 05, 2020 01:03PM
Intolerant? I guess you're right. I don't have any tolerance for lies, treason, murder, breaking up families, grifting, voter restriction, and on and on.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 05, 2020 01:29PM
mostly unnerving on college campuses, I think, where there has been an outright blockade on allowing some people to speak. this is a very bad trend. protest them, yes. boycott them, yes. but there should be a forum for folks to talk. (I'm not talking about hate speech or known supremacists, just what would be referred to as "conservatives" even though that is now a fungible term.)
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 01:37PM
Quote
kj
I actually think there is more to this issue than presented here. Joe Rogan was recently cancelled, and he has nothing to do with Trump. I would be the last one to defend Joe Rogan's general "thing", but there really is something very intolerant about current progressive-ism. There is an article by Andrew Sullivan, who I have a lot in common with idea-wise, and who was also recently cancelled, that discusses pretty much this topic, and I find it very interesting, and important.
Not everything is relevant only to Trump.


Joe Rogan has a $100M+ deal with Spotify to air his podcast - was that cancelled?

I know that Andrew Sullivan left NY Magazine (or was asked to leave, they said it was mutual). I think his June essay on the BLM movement probably didn't land well, I read it and didn't think much of it. I thought he was missing the point and acting kind of whiny.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 01:38PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
mostly unnerving on college campuses, I think, where there has been an outright blockade on allowing some people to speak. this is a very bad trend. protest them, yes. boycott them, yes. but there should be a forum for folks to talk. (I'm not talking about hate speech or known supremacists, just what would be referred to as "conservatives" even though that is now a fungible term.)

Can you name someone who was "cancelled" who should not have been?
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 05, 2020 02:08PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrbigstuff
mostly unnerving on college campuses, I think, where there has been an outright blockade on allowing some people to speak. this is a very bad trend. protest them, yes. boycott them, yes. but there should be a forum for folks to talk. (I'm not talking about hate speech or known supremacists, just what would be referred to as "conservatives" even though that is now a fungible term.)

Can you name someone who was "cancelled" who should not have been?

There have been a few locally, mostly people who have worked on campaigns to elect someone conservative to office or a Ben Shapiro character. But many who worked in the Bush administration were not allowed to speak after his tenure ended. There was one I knew of because a friend taught at this small school, it was a woman who is a respected physician, and Asian, but did not seem "progressive" enough to be a speaker there.

On the other side is the whole Chelsea Manning debacle at Harvard.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 02:10PM
There's a flip side to "cancel culture," something I've seen from Ivanka Trump, JK Rowling and others. Powerful people can invoke it to play the victim, and to avoid taking responsibility for something offensive they've said or done.

That is precisely how "political correctness" got turned on its head by conservatives who got called out for certain behavior.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: hal
Date: August 05, 2020 02:11PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrbigstuff
mostly unnerving on college campuses, I think, where there has been an outright blockade on allowing some people to speak. this is a very bad trend. protest them, yes. boycott them, yes. but there should be a forum for folks to talk. (I'm not talking about hate speech or known supremacists, just what would be referred to as "conservatives" even though that is now a fungible term.)

Can you name someone who was "cancelled" who should not have been?

The cancel culture sucks - plenty of people have been brutally cancelled that shouldnt' have been.

[www.nytimes.com]
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 05, 2020 02:19PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
There's a flip side to "cancel culture," something I've seen from Ivanka Trump, JK Rowling and others. Powerful people can invoke it to play the victim, and to avoid taking responsibility for something offensive they've said or done.

That is precisely how "political correctness" got turned on its head by conservatives who got called out for certain behavior.

Do two wrongs make a right?
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 02:25PM
Quote
hal
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrbigstuff
mostly unnerving on college campuses, I think, where there has been an outright blockade on allowing some people to speak. this is a very bad trend. protest them, yes. boycott them, yes. but there should be a forum for folks to talk. (I'm not talking about hate speech or known supremacists, just what would be referred to as "conservatives" even though that is now a fungible term.)

Can you name someone who was "cancelled" who should not have been?

The cancel culture sucks - plenty of people have been brutally cancelled that shouldnt' have been.

[www.nytimes.com]

That was an interesting episode but I have no pity for Ms. Sacco. She is a PR professional; you can't do sh%t like that publicly and she was horribly naive to think her public social media account wasn't that public.

BTW she is back with her original company in a top executive role now. Things worked out just fine for her.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 02:27PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
Lemon Drop
There's a flip side to "cancel culture," something I've seen from Ivanka Trump, JK Rowling and others. Powerful people can invoke it to play the victim, and to avoid taking responsibility for something offensive they've said or done.

That is precisely how "political correctness" got turned on its head by conservatives who got called out for certain behavior.

Do two wrongs make a right?

???

You're assuming it's wrong for high profile people to get called out when they say/do something offensive. I say that's the price of being high profile.

I'm still looking for an example of someone who got penalized unfairly or suffered some undeserved consequence.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: bfd
Date: August 05, 2020 02:29PM
There are good people on both sides…
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: kj
Date: August 05, 2020 02:31PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
kj
I actually think there is more to this issue than presented here. Joe Rogan was recently cancelled, and he has nothing to do with Trump. I would be the last one to defend Joe Rogan's general "thing", but there really is something very intolerant about current progressive-ism. There is an article by Andrew Sullivan, who I have a lot in common with idea-wise, and who was also recently cancelled, that discusses pretty much this topic, and I find it very interesting, and important.
Not everything is relevant only to Trump.


Joe Rogan has a $100M+ deal with Spotify to air his podcast - was that cancelled?

I know that Andrew Sullivan left NY Magazine (or was asked to leave, they said it was mutual). I think his June essay on the BLM movement probably didn't land well, I read it and didn't think much of it. I thought he was missing the point and acting kind of whiny.

Well it's not a cut and dry thing, you know. It's not like there is a federal cancellation department.

[www.google.com]

It's certainly a thing.

Andrew Sullivan is a really good writer, but like anyone, I'm sure he's written some turds, so that's fine if you didn't like one piece by him. He says he wasn't cancelled, but I would say from his description, that he basically was.

[nymag.com]

It's not particularly important whether he was "cancelled" or not, but he discusses the topic of how progressives have abandoned liberal ideals, and I think he's got a point or two.

I dare say no one has ever negotiated this world perfectly, and so really, everyone could probably be shown worthy of cancellation at some point. Did Kevin Hart screw up? Yeah. Did he deserve cancellation? No. Is cancellation a good strategy or "practice"? I don't think so, for reasons every liberal used to understand.

Example, not to pick on Sarcany:

"It's what people complain about when they're caught doing something morally questionable"

Liberal response: Who determines what is morally questionable? Are we so certain it is so wrong that ANY response is justified?

Progressives ARE that sure, it seems. Begins to resemble the worst aspects of religion, in my opinion.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 05, 2020 02:32PM
Quote
hal
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrbigstuff
mostly unnerving on college campuses, I think, where there has been an outright blockade on allowing some people to speak. this is a very bad trend. protest them, yes. boycott them, yes. but there should be a forum for folks to talk. (I'm not talking about hate speech or known supremacists, just what would be referred to as "conservatives" even though that is now a fungible term.)

Can you name someone who was "cancelled" who should not have been?

The cancel culture sucks - plenty of people have been brutally cancelled that shouldnt' have been.

[www.nytimes.com]

Sometimes it only takes a few seconds to see into someone’s soul. Even someone you’ve known for a long time. No mercy.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 02:37PM
Kevin Hart? Multi-millionaire Kevin Hart?? Who didn't get to host the Oscars but is still very popular, rich and famous and doing well in his career?

Sorry but you're not going to get any pity from me on that one.

Seriously folks I am looking for examples when somebody got an UNFAIR, meaningful penalty or consequence as a result of "cancel culture."

I haven't seen one yet.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 05, 2020 02:50PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
Lemon Drop
There's a flip side to "cancel culture," something I've seen from Ivanka Trump, JK Rowling and others. Powerful people can invoke it to play the victim, and to avoid taking responsibility for something offensive they've said or done.

That is precisely how "political correctness" got turned on its head by conservatives who got called out for certain behavior.

Do two wrongs make a right?

???

You're assuming it's wrong for high profile people to get called out when they say/do something offensive. I say that's the price of being high profile.

I'm still looking for an example of someone who got penalized unfairly or suffered some undeserved consequence.

what is "undeserved" in your opinion? you are apparently ok with that woman suffering to a great degree, even if she did "just fine" in the end.

look up Rice, Brennan, et al. I dislike all of them, but that is not what we are talking about. or, on the other side, look up Chelsea Manning and Harvard.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 03:06PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
Lemon Drop
There's a flip side to "cancel culture," something I've seen from Ivanka Trump, JK Rowling and others. Powerful people can invoke it to play the victim, and to avoid taking responsibility for something offensive they've said or done.

That is precisely how "political correctness" got turned on its head by conservatives who got called out for certain behavior.

Do two wrongs make a right?

???

You're assuming it's wrong for high profile people to get called out when they say/do something offensive. I say that's the price of being high profile.

I'm still looking for an example of someone who got penalized unfairly or suffered some undeserved consequence.

what is "undeserved" in your opinion? you are apparently ok with that woman suffering to a great degree, even if she did "just fine" in the end.

look up Rice, Brennan, et al. I dislike all of them, but that is not what we are talking about. or, on the other side, look up Chelsea Manning and Harvard.

Suffering to a great degree?? Is that joke? My brother died of AIDS. That's suffering. That woman did not "suffer" she was temporarily embarrassed. She grew up a bit and learned from her mistake.

The Manning/Harvard episode is a classic for what happens in a free society. Fascinating - but Harvard has every right not to include a convicted felon who leaked classified info on their roster of honorees (regardless of what anyone thinks if her crime). I have no opinion on whether she should have been a fellow, or not.

Maybe that is part of this - everyone thinks their opinion on every hiring/firing decision an organization makes should actually matter? Social media has created the false impression that we're more influential than we think, perhaps.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: kj
Date: August 05, 2020 03:10PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Kevin Hart? Multi-millionaire Kevin Hart?? Who didn't get to host the Oscars but is still very popular, rich and famous and doing well in his career?

Sorry but you're not going to get any pity from me on that one.

Seriously folks I am looking for examples when somebody got an UNFAIR, meaningful penalty or consequence as a result of "cancel culture."

I haven't seen one yet.

So because Kevin Hart is rich, nothing done to him can be unfair? Yeah, these people all did something they shouldn't have, but what consequences are reasonable. Maybe it's a bit much sometimes.

edit: And maybe punishment serves more to suppress the expression of behavior, rather than actually change attitudes?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2020 03:15PM by kj.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 05, 2020 03:18PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
Lemon Drop
There's a flip side to "cancel culture," something I've seen from Ivanka Trump, JK Rowling and others. Powerful people can invoke it to play the victim, and to avoid taking responsibility for something offensive they've said or done.

That is precisely how "political correctness" got turned on its head by conservatives who got called out for certain behavior.

Do two wrongs make a right?

???

You're assuming it's wrong for high profile people to get called out when they say/do something offensive. I say that's the price of being high profile.

I'm still looking for an example of someone who got penalized unfairly or suffered some undeserved consequence.

what is "undeserved" in your opinion? you are apparently ok with that woman suffering to a great degree, even if she did "just fine" in the end.

look up Rice, Brennan, et al. I dislike all of them, but that is not what we are talking about. or, on the other side, look up Chelsea Manning and Harvard.

Suffering to a great degree?? Is that joke? My brother died of AIDS. That's suffering. That woman did not "suffer" she was temporarily embarrassed. She grew up a bit and learned from her mistake.

The Manning/Harvard episode is a classic for what happens in a free society. Fascinating - but Harvard has every right not to include a convicted felon who leaked classified info on their roster of honorees (regardless of what anyone thinks if her crime). I have no opinion on whether she should have been a fellow, or not.

Maybe that is part of this - everyone thinks their opinion on every hiring/firing decision an organization makes should actually matter? Social media has created the false impression that we're more influential than we think, perhaps.

You are correct, she did not suffer to a "great degree," if you are referring to physical suffering, although I would allow she did suffer mentally. No doubt her fault, and she is responsible for her words and acknowledges such, but it is indicative of a social culture that thinks it "knows" everything about a situation. Cancelling someone when you don't "know" the whole picture, or when you refuse to hear the other person. No former politicians are suffering mentally or physically (except perhaps those private citizens), it's silencing free speech on campuses and other traditional avenues of discussion.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 05, 2020 03:23PM
Quote
kj
Quote
Lemon Drop
Kevin Hart? Multi-millionaire Kevin Hart?? Who didn't get to host the Oscars but is still very popular, rich and famous and doing well in his career?

Sorry but you're not going to get any pity from me on that one.

Seriously folks I am looking for examples when somebody got an UNFAIR, meaningful penalty or consequence as a result of "cancel culture."

I haven't seen one yet.

So because Kevin Hart is rich, nothing done to him can be unfair? Yeah, these people all did something they shouldn't have, but what consequences are reasonable. Maybe it's a bit much sometimes.

Eddie Murphy is probably a better example, someone in a similar situation with similar remarks in their past.

edit: And maybe punishment serves more to suppress the expression of behavior, rather than actually change attitudes?
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: August 05, 2020 03:33PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Do two wrongs make a right?

No, but three rights make a left. smiley-music039
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 05, 2020 03:41PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Can you name someone who was "cancelled" who should not have been?

Al Franken.

He threw himself under the bus to avoid making a stink.

Yeah, he did some bad things as a comedian... Seems to have pushed right up to the edge, but didn't run over it. And he gave the best apology I've ever seen from a politician:

[www.cnn.com]

"The first thing I want to do is apologize: to Leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me, to everyone I represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women. There's more I want to say, but the first and most important thing—and if it's the only thing you care to hear, that's fine—is: I'm sorry.

"I respect women. I don't respect men who don't. And the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed.

"But I want to say something else, too. Over the last few months, all of us—including and especially men who respect women—have been forced to take a good, hard look at our own actions and think (perhaps, shamefully, for the first time) about how those actions have affected women.

"For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.

"Coming from the world of comedy, I've told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren't the point at all. It's the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I'm sorry it's taken me so long to come to terms with that.

"While I don't remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe women's experiences.

"I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.

"And the truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and am committed to making it up to them."




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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: kj
Date: August 05, 2020 03:42PM
Quote
p8712
Quote
kj
Quote
Lemon Drop
Kevin Hart? Multi-millionaire Kevin Hart?? Who didn't get to host the Oscars but is still very popular, rich and famous and doing well in his career?

Sorry but you're not going to get any pity from me on that one.

Seriously folks I am looking for examples when somebody got an UNFAIR, meaningful penalty or consequence as a result of "cancel culture."

I haven't seen one yet.

So because Kevin Hart is rich, nothing done to him can be unfair? Yeah, these people all did something they shouldn't have, but what consequences are reasonable. Maybe it's a bit much sometimes.

Eddie Murphy is probably a better example, someone in a similar situation with similar remarks in their past.

edit: And maybe punishment serves more to suppress the expression of behavior, rather than actually change attitudes?

I don't know if the issue is necessarily the plight of famous rich people, but rather the cancel culture vs. free speech issue. And maybe what makes a better society. I don't think cancel culture really makes for a better society.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: numbered
Date: August 05, 2020 03:46PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Seriously folks I am looking for examples when somebody got an UNFAIR, meaningful penalty or consequence as a result of "cancel culture."

I haven't seen one yet.

Oh I so should not post this, it is a bit like bring up Bernie Bros...and I could get canceled here.

David Shor got fired from a political analysis job for a tweet.

Quote
Jon Chait
On May 28, progressive election data analyst David Shor tweeted about a new paper by Princeton professor Omar Wasow, showing that peaceful civil-rights protests moved public opinion toward protesters while violent protests had the opposite effect. The tweet violated a taboo in some left-wing quarters against criticizing violent protest and led within days to his firing.

What happened after that was even more bizarre. On June 11, I wrote an article briefly describing Shor’s tweet and firing. Four days later, “Progressphiles,” a LISTSERV for left-of-center data analysts, kicked Shor off. In a message to the group, the moderators described his tweet as “racist” and further accused him of having “encouraged harassment” of another member of the list:
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: August West
Date: August 05, 2020 04:26PM
Quote

...nothing done to him can be unfair?

Really? Unfair is suddenly an issue?



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: pdq
Date: August 05, 2020 04:38PM
I’m surprised that no one’s brought up this one:

Quote

On Monday a political appointee and deputy White House liaison there, Merritt Corrigan, took to Twitter to accuse her employer of “anti-Christian” bias.

Corrigan’s appointment at USAID has been under fire for months over anti-gay tweets she made in 2019 and 2020, including accusing the United States of being a “homo-empire” devoted to a “tyrannical LGBT agenda,” tweeting that “female empowerment is a civilizational calamity,” and advocating for the creation of a “Christian patriarchy.” But on Monday, her targets were both USAID itself and House Foreign Relations Affairs Committee Chair Eliot Engel (D-NY), whom she accused of soliciting prostitutes. As Corrigan’s initial tweets went up, she claimed USAID gave her a 3 p.m. deadline to resign or be fired. When the deadline passed, Corrigan said she was fired.

OMG! Cancelled by the Trump administration?

As noted in the piece, here’s where it gets really weird:

Quote

Corrigan, who is/was apparently dating [famous right-wing bomb-thrower Jacob] Wohl, announced that she’d be appearing Thursday in front of Wohl associate Jack Burkman’s Northern Virginia house—a site that has previously hosted farcical attempts to smear Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) and Kamala Harris (D-CA) with lurid sexual allegations. There, she would further denounce USAID, accuse a Politico reporter who covered her resignation of stalking her, and demand that Engel debate her and Burkman.

Ah, ooKay. Rather than being “cancelled”, she was well on her way to becoming a right-wing star/martyr.

Then it sorta fell apart, spectacularly:

Quote

[Tuesday, ] Corrigan now claimed she’d become the pawn of individuals who had attempted to “ruin” her.

"I would like to apologize,” it read. “Especially to the people who have been affected or hurt by the messages sent from my Twitter account, and the claims made in my name over the past 24 hours. I did NOT send these messages, and while I vehemently protested about them being sent in my name, my devices were not in my control. I see now that I was part of an abusive scheme and I was used to attack people that have nothing to do with me.

“I will not be participating in any press conferences as claimed in my name, and will have nothing to do with individuals who forced me to hand over my devices so they could control me and the output in my name...

dunno smiley popcorn smiley
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 05, 2020 04:54PM
Quote
numbered


Oh I so should not post this, it is a bit like bring up Bernie Bros...and I could get canceled here.

David Shor got fired from a political analysis job for a tweet.

Quote
Jon Chait
On May 28, progressive election data analyst David Shor tweeted about a new paper by Princeton professor Omar Wasow, showing that peaceful civil-rights protests moved public opinion toward protesters while violent protests had the opposite effect. The tweet violated a taboo in some left-wing quarters against criticizing violent protest and led within days to his firing.

What happened after that was even more bizarre. On June 11, I wrote an article briefly describing Shor’s tweet and firing. Four days later, “Progressphiles,” a LISTSERV for left-of-center data analysts, kicked Shor off. In a message to the group, the moderators described his tweet as “racist” and further accused him of having “encouraged harassment” of another member of the list:

Wow. That's a good one (not).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2020 04:54PM by mrbigstuff.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Ted King
Date: August 05, 2020 05:52PM
.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2020 06:14AM by Ted King.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 06:21PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
Lemon Drop
Can you name someone who was "cancelled" who should not have been?

Al Franken.

He threw himself under the bus to avoid making a stink.

"[/i]

Good example on the face of it - and although I don't want to rehash l'affaire Franken, it wasn't his antics as a comedian that convinced me he should resign, it was the other 7 accusations of sexual misconduct.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 06:29PM
Quote
numbered
Quote
Lemon Drop
Seriously folks I am looking for examples when somebody got an UNFAIR, meaningful penalty or consequence as a result of "cancel culture."

I haven't seen one yet.

Oh I so should not post this, it is a bit like bring up Bernie Bros...and I could get canceled here.

David Shor got fired from a political analysis job for a tweet.

Quote
Jon Chait
On May 28, progressive election data analyst David Shor tweeted about a new paper by Princeton professor Omar Wasow, showing that peaceful civil-rights protests moved public opinion toward protesters while violent protests had the opposite effect. The tweet violated a taboo in some left-wing quarters against criticizing violent protest and led within days to his firing.

What happened after that was even more bizarre. On June 11, I wrote an article briefly describing Shor’s tweet and firing. Four days later, “Progressphiles,” a LISTSERV for left-of-center data analysts, kicked Shor off. In a message to the group, the moderators described his tweet as “racist” and further accused him of having “encouraged harassment” of another member of the list:

We can't know what really went on there, but Shor's former employer, Civis, denies that his firing had anything to do with that tweet:

Reached for comment, Civis denied that the tweet led to the firing: “We have not, nor would we ever, terminate employees for tweeting academic papers. These rumors are incorrect and unsubstantiated. Civis was founded on the principles of free speech and the pursuit of truth through objective scientific research, and that has not changed. This is an internal personnel matter, and out of respect for our employees and alumni, we won’t be commenting further.”

[www.theatlantic.com]
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Marc Anthony
Date: August 05, 2020 06:48PM
The phrase can be a meaningless buzzword, but cancel culture is ultimately another term for revisionism—often with a political basis. Someone will always be offended about something and many people don’t consider context, resulting in a perceived insult or injustice. Take, for example, the Indian woman illustration previously on the Land O’ Lakes packaging. A lot of (mostly white) people decried this as being a caricature and even conflated it with sexual abuse. The original artist for the depiction was Native American, and created the work to foster cultural pride.



Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 05, 2020 07:14PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
Lemon Drop
Can you name someone who was "cancelled" who should not have been?

Al Franken.

He threw himself under the bus to avoid making a stink.

"[/i]

Good example on the face of it - and although I don't want to rehash l'affaire Franken, it wasn't his antics as a comedian that convinced me he should resign, it was the other 7 accusations of sexual misconduct.

I'm fine rehashing it.

The whole thing was an absurd pile-on.

His "antics" were the only accusations that were substantiated, and it turns out that there were witnesses exonerating him for every allegation about his behavior on the tour, leaving just the photo.

Two of the seven accusers said what amounted to: "I asked him to pose with me in exactly that way, but didn't like it when the weird old guy actually did exactly what I asked him to do."

One of the statements amounted to "he gave me a friendly and inoffensive kiss on the cheek, but I thought he was going to give me a gross open-mouth kiss on the lips."

This is the accusation that finally led to his resignation:
"...the group’s resolve hardened further when some of its members learned of an impending Politico story that contained a seventh allegation, by a former Senate staff member. The accuser, whose name is being withheld at her request, was known to some of the seven female senators. The woman said that, in 2006, when Franken was still a comedian, he had made her uneasy by looking as if he planned to kiss her. "

Yep. Most of the accusations were that the awful little man made women scared that he *might* behave inappropriately.

There was never an ethics investigation and he resigned before most of the exonerating facts got out to the public.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2020 07:17PM by Sarcany.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 05, 2020 07:41PM
The woman said that, in 2006, when Franken was still a comedian, he had made her uneasy by looking as if he planned to kiss her.

that's not what happened, and it doesn't bother me if you choose not to believe Franken's many accusers. He's gone.


This is that accusation, corroborated by two other women: :
[www.politico.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2020 07:41PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 05, 2020 08:30PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
This is that accusation, corroborated by two other women: :
[www.politico.com]

The Politico story was discredited. It took quotes out of context.



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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 05, 2020 11:41PM
Quote

Some defenestrations are brilliant, and long overdue. Weinstein’s removal from a position of power was undoubtedly a good thing. But the firing of Emmanuel Cafferty was not. For activists, the danger lies in the cheap sugar rush of tokenistic cancellations. Real institutional change is hard; like politics, it is the “slow boring of hard boards.” Persuading a company to toss someone overboard for PR points risks a victory that is no victory at all. The pitchforks go down, but the corporate culture remains the same. The survivors sigh in relief. The institution goes on.

If you care about progressive causes, then woke capitalism is not your friend. It is actively impeding the cause, siphoning off energy, and deluding us into thinking that change is happening faster and deeper than it really is. When people talk about the “excesses of the left”—a phenomenon that blights the electoral prospects of progressive parties by alienating swing voters—in many cases they’re talking about the jumpy overreactions of corporations that aren’t left-wing at all.
[www.theatlantic.com]



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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: numbered
Date: August 06, 2020 12:00AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
We can't know what really went on there, but Shor's former employer, Civis, denies that his firing had anything to do with that tweet:

You linked to the Mounk article in the Atlantic, but did you read it? It is unlike you to accept a credulous explanation from a company's management. A subsequent paragraph from a staff member at the firm:

Quote

One Civis employee, who requested anonymity for fear of professional repercussions, told me, the only reason for the firing “that was communicated that I heard were the client and staff reactions to the tweet.” The employee also said that at “our company-wide meeting after Shor’s firing blew up on Twitter, [CEO] Dan [Wagner] said something along the lines of freedom of speech is important, but he had to take a stand with our staff, clients, and people of color.”

Moreover, the point Chait made in the piece I linked was that a group LISTSERV dumped Shor as well. And when you dive in to his sin, you come back to the idea that it is "racist" to even mention violent protest.

There is a recurring motif on the left extreme: it has become dangerous to complain, even indirectly, about anything that touches on people who have been historically wronged. It has nothing to do with ignoring or being unsupportive or attacking. It is, instead, the Leninist idea that if you are not completely in line you are a counter-revolutionary. Trotskyists need not apply.
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Re: What is "cancel culture?"
Posted by: RgrF
Date: August 06, 2020 12:02AM
Quote
$tevie
Quote

Some defenestrations are brilliant, and long overdue. Weinstein’s removal from a position of power was undoubtedly a good thing. But the firing of Emmanuel Cafferty was not. For activists, the danger lies in the cheap sugar rush of tokenistic cancellations. Real institutional change is hard; like politics, it is the “slow boring of hard boards.” Persuading a company to toss someone overboard for PR points risks a victory that is no victory at all. The pitchforks go down, but the corporate culture remains the same. The survivors sigh in relief. The institution goes on.

If you care about progressive causes, then woke capitalism is not your friend. It is actively impeding the cause, siphoning off energy, and deluding us into thinking that change is happening faster and deeper than it really is. When people talk about the “excesses of the left”—a phenomenon that blights the electoral prospects of progressive parties by alienating swing voters—in many cases they’re talking about the jumpy overreactions of corporations that aren’t left-wing at all.
[www.theatlantic.com]

also see Matt Taibbi and his interaction with the wokes
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