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Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 07, 2020 11:25AM
[www.wired.com]

In a hybrid model, when students are kept out of school for multiple days each week, or every other week, a sizable percentage of them are likely to intermingle with other children and adults. This is especially so for younger kids with working parents, as the kids may need to be in day care, exposing them to another set of social contacts and all of their possible infections. Meanwhile, older kids and adolescents will be inclined to hang out with their peers on their copious "off" days. (In many districts, remote learning plans include just a short amount of livestreamed teaching every day, leaving many hours to fill in other ways.) The hybrid model, Nuzzo says, “only works if students stay home, alone, during all of that time they are out of school.” This is a strangely unrealistic assumption by policymakers...

How did we arrive at a situation where schools in at least 30 states may thrust students into a scheduling model that may actually increase the risk of viral spread to themselves and their teachers?

The hybrid schedule exists solely as a kludge and back-formation from the standard 6-foot guideline for social distancing. School reopening instructions from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend that “students remain at least 6 feet apart.” Many states have adopted this requirement. But to comply, lots of schools will have to reduce their total populations; some by as much as two-thirds. News photos of administrators stretching tape measures between desks have become commonplace. Six feet is the cornerstone, and all the plans for hybrid schooling build from this constraint.




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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: deckeda
Date: August 07, 2020 12:02PM
And they can’t even get the cornerstone part done well.
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: samintx
Date: August 07, 2020 12:35PM
I know when I have been away from my computer for several days it takes me a couple of days to get back in the daily life groove. I would think this would happen to kids and hamper learning. Maybe kid react differently but....guess we shall see.
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 07, 2020 12:44PM
Don't have kids, I take? There are no good options. All remote is a joke for many reasons. But for the mental (and physical) health of millions of kids this may be the best option available. Of course they are going to see other kids, they'll be in school with them, in the halls. It means frequent testing, as much mask wearing as can be, and no congregate classes, like gym or music or chorus. It's no sports, limited busing, and very limited visiting of relations. It may also mean curtailing the bars and restaurants, but that is another political decision.
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: August 07, 2020 01:11PM
Where is frequent testing available in the US?

Quote
mrbigstuff
Don't have kids, I take? There are no good options. All remote is a joke for many reasons. But for the mental (and physical) health of millions of kids this may be the best option available. Of course they are going to see other kids, they'll be in school with them, in the halls. It means frequent testing, as much mask wearing as can be, and no congregate classes, like gym or music or chorus. It's no sports, limited busing, and very limited visiting of relations. It may also mean curtailing the bars and restaurants, but that is another political decision.
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 07, 2020 01:16PM
Quote
anonymouse1
Where is frequent testing available in the US?

Quote
mrbigstuff
Don't have kids, I take? There are no good options. All remote is a joke for many reasons. But for the mental (and physical) health of millions of kids this may be the best option available. Of course they are going to see other kids, they'll be in school with them, in the halls. It means frequent testing, as much mask wearing as can be, and no congregate classes, like gym or music or chorus. It's no sports, limited busing, and very limited visiting of relations. It may also mean curtailing the bars and restaurants, but that is another political decision.

Universities are doing it. Individuals can drive up to multiple free sites here, no appointments necessary.
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 07, 2020 02:45PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Universities are doing it. Individuals can drive up to multiple free sites here, no appointments necessary.

Universities are screwing it up. They can't simply test for themselves so they're contracting with 3rd parties who either can't scale the tech ("Register at this website that's always down!") or can't scale the tests (2 weeks to get results).



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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 07, 2020 03:24PM
Quote
anonymouse1
Where is frequent testing available in the US?
..
Anywhere close to Trump. Everyone else gets bupkis. Oh, and the politicial tests apparently have almost instant results. But are not very reliable, as Ohio's governor discovered.....

Trump tests came back positive. Ohio State tests and antibody tests came back negative.

I wonder if the trump tests use the test swabs his crazy ass contaminated ?
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 07, 2020 04:06PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
anonymouse1
Where is frequent testing available in the US?

Quote
mrbigstuff
Don't have kids, I take? There are no good options. All remote is a joke for many reasons. But for the mental (and physical) health of millions of kids this may be the best option available. Of course they are going to see other kids, they'll be in school with them, in the halls. It means frequent testing, as much mask wearing as can be, and no congregate classes, like gym or music or chorus. It's no sports, limited busing, and very limited visiting of relations. It may also mean curtailing the bars and restaurants, but that is another political decision.

Universities are doing it. Individuals can drive up to multiple free sites here, no appointments necessary.

And some universities are backing away from being open and going to staying with online classes. There are numerous examples. University I work at just announced yesterday evening that only the few students taking the less than 200 classes that have in-person requirements such as labs will be allowed to move into the dorms for this Fall semester. This is less than 2 1/2 weeks before classes begin, move in was starting in just over a week.
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: deckeda
Date: August 07, 2020 05:26PM
Universities are largely doing what they can online. They have a huge advantage in that the audience is more mature. K-12 is where the nightmare is.

Our district bought a discount version of virtual instruction. One result is that there are no honors-level courses offered. Both of my kids are honors kids. That leaves in-class or homeschooling. The latter option deletes the ability to do extra-curricular activity UNLESS you had already been doing homeschool previously.

Let’s see ... no masks required of kids, but side stairs are for going down and central stairs are for going up now. Something-something about staggered movements and whatever. Not gonna happen.
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: kj
Date: August 07, 2020 06:32PM
Hybrid classes are not some kind of homologous solution. I feel like it's an absolute fact that some form of hybrid is the best balance of cost/benefit for most kids, and even college students. Instead of destroying every possible option available, people really need to just roll their sleeves up and get it done, the best way possible, now. It's the fricken' future of the world we're talking about here.
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: RgrF
Date: August 07, 2020 08:04PM
And as for testing, any test that doesn't return a same day result is ineffective, a 7-14 (unless the individual quarantines) turnaround is a joke and completely worthless.
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: kj
Date: August 08, 2020 12:58PM
What's the meme going around? Something about kids graduating from Nintendo Switch Academy? That's about right for completely remote classwork. There has to be a face to face component, at least.
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: kj
Date: August 08, 2020 01:10PM
My daughter's workplace has been really successful regarding management of risk, etc. in that they have had people test positive, but with strict quarantines, testing of all those in contact (tracing I guess) no problems beyond that. Their stores have continued to be open throughout the pandemic, and it is actually a hyper-social situation (dutch brothers coffee). The testing was slow at first, so people missed a lot of work. It's probably about 48hrs. now, and that's good enough to get the job done, at least for their situation.
In order to continue making money, they figured it out. So, I think when the stakes are the education of our young ones, we can also figure it out. Unfortunately, money seems to be a better incentive...
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 08, 2020 03:10PM
And just how many people did that involve at her workplace? Big difference doing all that for a few thousand employeees scattered over quite a number of states, many medium sized cities have that many school children or more enrolled.

The company at least can raise prices some and cut costs other places to pay for that testing and extra staffing to cover if someone is quarantined, schools don't have that option. Bills to provide aid to cities an towns has been tied up on Moscow Mitch's desk for a long time.

Basically you are presenting yet another "apples to oranges" comparison, doesn't really help your argument.
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Re: Hybrid classes: Worst option yet...
Posted by: kj
Date: August 08, 2020 04:12PM
Quote
JoeH
And just how many people did that involve at her workplace? Big difference doing all that for a few thousand employeees scattered over quite a number of states, many medium sized cities have that many school children or more enrolled.

The company at least can raise prices some and cut costs other places to pay for that testing and extra staffing to cover if someone is quarantined, schools don't have that option. Bills to provide aid to cities an towns has been tied up on Moscow Mitch's desk for a long time.

Basically you are presenting yet another "apples to oranges" comparison, doesn't really help your argument.

Well, people are coming through all day and night. Some are 24hr. joints. My daughter's stand is 5-600 cars a day. If you've never been to a Dutch Bros., being an introvert, I nearly can't go through one by myself, as they just about crawl into your car window. And they are also the personality type who socialize constantly outside of work, so I think it's a fairer comparison than you think. They can't just raise prices, and they haven't. They haven't let anyone go. They pay people while they are quarantined. They've had to tell employees to cool it outside of work, which oddly enough has been effective. They can't touch anything a customer has touched. They have numerous procedures and good compliance.
It's not the same, but I think they have some challenges that are more difficult to overcome than schools have, and in other ways it is probably easier for them, but the fact is, they figured it out, no drama. I think a large group of professionals ought to be able to do the same. I know for a fact the school administration here hasn't accomplished a dang thing to prepare over the summer, and I guarantee if they were burning through their own money like a closed restaurant, they would have done things differently.
Here, the teachers went nuts over contact with students because they really thought remote was going to be easy. So the district cancelled physical school, and now that they have looked into what's necessary for remote, they are realizing they're more or less screwed. They're not even close to ready to open school remotely.
My wife has been appalled at how lightly the public school teachers we know have been taking a transition to online teaching, because over the last few years, she's been transitioning to more online classes (and hybrid), and of course went all remote in spring. It's taken an enormous amount of work, and teachers don't seem to have anticipated what it's going to realistically require.
I think it's going to be really interesting to see what happens. Elementary school teachers that made a living with their classroom management skills are going to have to sprout a whole new skill set almost overnight, and that's not going to be easy. Actually, is anyone, anywhere successfully teaching elementary level remotely?
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