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What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: September 15, 2020 10:20AM
She has been establishing her credentials as a Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist (TERF) for a while now, taking jabs at trans women for no clear reason...

Now she has penned a new novel under her pseudonym Robert Galbraith, and one of its criminals is just the kind of imaginary threat cis people have been dreaming up to demonize trans folk for years: the cisgender predator male, masquerading as a woman to get access to his victims....

Fuck her.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: September 15, 2020 10:26AM
.....perhaps she is just.....J/K.......???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 15, 2020 10:37AM
Something in her background history made her that way. Perhaps Dementors ?
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 15, 2020 10:51AM
With all the complicated terms, TERFs and CIS people, cisgender I don't even know what you're talking about.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: September 15, 2020 10:52AM
Quote
vision63
With all the complicated terms, TERFs and CIS people, cisgender I don't even know what you're talking about.

No worries. Plenty of time to learn.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 15, 2020 11:08AM
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rjmacs
Quote
vision63
With all the complicated terms, TERFs and CIS people, cisgender I don't even know what you're talking about.

No worries. Plenty of time to learn.

That'd be like worrying about the guy down the street.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: September 15, 2020 11:15AM
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vision63
Quote
rjmacs
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vision63
With all the complicated terms, TERFs and CIS people, cisgender I don't even know what you're talking about.

No worries. Plenty of time to learn.

That'd be like worrying about the guy down the street.

We all worry about who we need to worry about. dunno smiley



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 15, 2020 11:20AM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
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rjmacs
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vision63
With all the complicated terms, TERFs and CIS people, cisgender I don't even know what you're talking about.

No worries. Plenty of time to learn.

That'd be like worrying about the guy down the street.

We all worry about who we need to worry about. dunno smiley

November 3rd. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Every problem we have is resolvable via some kind of policy on some legislative level. It doesn't matter what somebody else "thinks" about you. It only matters what they can do the stop you from doing what you please because we can't patrol people's hearts. We can only control policy.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: September 15, 2020 11:28AM
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vision63
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
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rjmacs
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vision63
With all the complicated terms, TERFs and CIS people, cisgender I don't even know what you're talking about.

No worries. Plenty of time to learn.

That'd be like worrying about the guy down the street.

We all worry about who we need to worry about. dunno smiley

November 3rd. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Every problem we have is resolvable via some kind of policy on some legislative level. It doesn't matter what somebody else "thinks" about you. It only matters what they can do the stop you from doing what you please because we can't patrol people's hearts. We can only control policy.

I agree with you to a degree, but to imply that culture can be controlled by policy seems nonsensical to me. There is a political world beyond electoral politics, and it matters a lot. We have to vote. But I'm growing weary of repeated posts in this forum that imply that any topic not directly related to Nov 3 is off-topic or irrelevant. Caring about more than just voting (WHILE CARING ABOUT VOTING) is part of being a good citizen, and it's not counter to our interests to discuss other things.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 15, 2020 11:41AM
I don’t know why so many people feel threatened by other people’s sex or sexuality.
Live and let live. I pretty much don’t care, or even want to know, what consenting adults do with or to each other or themselves.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: hal
Date: September 15, 2020 12:09PM
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vision63
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rjmacs
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vision63
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rjmacs
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vision63
With all the complicated terms, TERFs and CIS people, cisgender I don't even know what you're talking about.

No worries. Plenty of time to learn.

That'd be like worrying about the guy down the street.

We all worry about who we need to worry about. dunno smiley

November 3rd. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Every problem we have is resolvable via some kind of policy on some legislative level. It doesn't matter what somebody else "thinks" about you. It only matters what they can do the stop you from doing what you please because we can't patrol people's hearts. We can only control policy.

V63 woke up in nothing-else-matters mode. It doesn't matter what JK thinks because TRUMP MUST BE DEFEATED...

Hey Vision, do you want cheese on your burger?

Doesn't matter - TRUMP MUST BE DEFEATED!

:-)
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 15, 2020 12:29PM
Quote
hal
Quote
vision63
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
vision63
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rjmacs
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vision63
With all the complicated terms, TERFs and CIS people, cisgender I don't even know what you're talking about.

No worries. Plenty of time to learn.

That'd be like worrying about the guy down the street.

We all worry about who we need to worry about. dunno smiley

November 3rd. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Every problem we have is resolvable via some kind of policy on some legislative level. It doesn't matter what somebody else "thinks" about you. It only matters what they can do the stop you from doing what you please because we can't patrol people's hearts. We can only control policy.

V63 woke up in nothing-else-matters mode. It doesn't matter what JK thinks because TRUMP MUST BE DEFEATED...

Hey Vision, do you want cheese on your burger?

Doesn't matter - TRUMP MUST BE DEFEATED!

:-)

Exactly. Winners run the show. Losers stand by and watch. Anything beyond this is really a "social" problem. If this woman, for example, wants to hate Transgendered people, that's her privilege.

In today's socio-political climate, "movements" are generally used against the movement by being gamed by bad actors. I don't know how many people this guy has to kill, how many children he has to rip out of the arms of parents, how much we have to be pummeled by historic climate destruction that he ignores, in order to focus exclusively on removing him. Superwinds blowing down half of Iowa, Fires exploding all across the west, epic floods, epic Hurricanes, a freaking pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans. Mass killings unabated.

We have one very elderly Supreme Court Justice that could very well be the final straw that gives us a chance as preserving our democracy. We should be shivering in a corner worried to death about that single possibility.

We really don't have to over-worry about people that we can actually create laws to protect and enforce. That's the max of what we can do about that anyway. We can't make people like people.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: September 15, 2020 12:31PM
I hear you, Vision63. We're in different places, but we're fighting the same fight and headed to the same destination. I'm glad to have you as a comrade in the struggle. Thanks for your passion.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 15, 2020 12:36PM
FWIW, the various acronyms are overdone. I grumble at my daughter and say "Why do you have to identify yourself ? You are a woman who loves a woman. We have friends who are men( but used to be women). It's nobody's goddamn business who you love and what you do about it."

She then calls me a cis male hetero boomer. I then tell her I'm a cis male lesbian.

And the argument gets silly from there...
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 15, 2020 12:54PM
Probably can order them soon.

edit. [that was an accidental post to a friend who's upset about the new iPads not being available now]. That's funny. I thought I was in iMessages.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2020 12:58PM by vision63.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: hal
Date: September 15, 2020 01:19PM
Quote
rjmacs
I hear you, Vision63. We're in different places, but we're fighting the same fight and headed to the same destination. I'm glad to have you as a comrade in the struggle. Thanks for your passion.

yeah, I'm glad the guy is on my side. I just couldn't handle all that energy working against me.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 15, 2020 01:24PM
She is leaving a terrible legacy.

Orson Scott Card did something similar.

And the Jurassic Park author, too.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 15, 2020 02:28PM
It's about rich white privilege.

She said something foolish a few years back and was caught off guard when previously adoring fans were upset.

Instead of apologizing, she dug herself deeper and deeper, expecting the adulation to carry on.

I doubt she means half the stuff she says, but she's saying some pretty nasty stuff and she can't seem to hold back. Just blathers on about stuff she doesn't know about and won't take the time to learn about. And the more she blathers on, the more people deep-dive into her early writing and catch on to some themes that were maybe accidental/unconscious and maybe her publisher should have caught and removed them from the early drafts.

She's past the "slightly racist/anti-LGBTQ+ grandma should not be on social media" stage and is well into "regular Breitbart-reader," but at the rate she's accelerating, she'll be at full "Stephen Miller" within the month.

Maybe it's best to ignore her and hope she'll go away. And don't buy her books, which have gotten pretty bold in their racist and anti-trans themes. And don't re-read Harry Potter after reading anything from her Twitter feed.



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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 15, 2020 02:42PM
So you're advocating for "canceling" her?
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 15, 2020 02:46PM
Quote
RgrF
So you're advocating for "canceling" her?

"Canceling" is an imaginary construct of wealthy attention-seekers.

For everyone else, it's just called "consequences."







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2020 02:48PM by Sarcany.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 15, 2020 02:49PM
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Sarcany
Quote
RgrF
So you're advocating for "canceling" her?

"Canceling" is an imaginary construct of wealthy attention-seekers.

Over the past couple of years it seems to have become popular around campus society.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: September 15, 2020 02:57PM
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RgrF
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Sarcany
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RgrF
So you're advocating for "canceling" her?

"Canceling" is an imaginary construct of wealthy attention-seekers.

Over the past couple of years it seems to have become popular around campus society.

Please elucidate the matter of material consequences for the cancelees in question.

At last check, American Dirt was on top of the NYT best seller's list for hardcover fiction for two weeks.... Despite roundly being panned as a basic, uninformed, and largely racist story written by a White woman, the book is a wild success and has been optioned.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 15, 2020 03:08PM
Quote
Sarcany
And don't re-read Harry Potter after reading anything from her Twitter feed.

This, 100x.

She is proving that money and fame really enhance the mentality that is privilege - white or otherwise. What aspect of human social behavior is she even competent to judge? She wrote fantasy books.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: September 15, 2020 03:16PM
ya'll are stepping in some deep doo with this thread. Rowlings has said some things that need to be said and sparking a conversation that has been simmering for years and that needs to be had in the LGBTQ community. and i'm just going to leave it there.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 15, 2020 03:19PM
Quote
rjmacs
Please elucidate the matter of material consequences for the cancelees in question.

1. They're not "canceled."

2. After decades of sheltered life, they're being confronted with criticism.

How shocking it must be to discover that not everything you say and do is met by all with unflagging adulation.



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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: hal
Date: September 15, 2020 03:32PM
Quote
graylocks
ya'll are stepping in some deep doo with this thread. Rowlings has said some things that need to be said and sparking a conversation that has been simmering for years and that needs to be had in the LGBTQ community. and i'm just going to leave it there.

I wouldn't mind hearing more from you on the topic...
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 15, 2020 03:45PM
Quote
hal
Quote
graylocks
ya'll are stepping in some deep doo with this thread. Rowlings has said some things that need to be said and sparking a conversation that has been simmering for years and that needs to be had in the LGBTQ community. and i'm just going to leave it there.

I wouldn't mind hearing more from you on the topic...

Feel free to start a new thread.

I've found the limited number of statements she made earlier this year on Twitter to be deeply disturbing, and with clear bigotry in mind.

If she has something productive to say, it was hard to hear amidst her, ah, negative voice.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: September 15, 2020 05:06PM
Apropos of nothing, I hope we have all learned that retweeting some random writer's political statements and holding them up as a liberal icon can turn right around and prove embarrassing. Fortunately, I never gave a damn what JK Rowling thought about this country so I have no need to distance myself from her now.



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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 15, 2020 05:30PM
Quote
$tevie
Apropos of nothing, I hope we have all learned that retweeting some random writer's political statements and holding them up as a liberal icon can turn right around and prove embarrassing.

Huh?

Liberal?

Everything she writes celebrates caste and birthrights and her few portrayals of minorities have been cut out of 19th century stereotypes. Hardly the voice of a civil libertarian.



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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 15, 2020 05:40PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
$tevie
Apropos of nothing, I hope we have all learned that retweeting some random writer's political statements and holding them up as a liberal icon can turn right around and prove embarrassing.

Huh?

Liberal?

Everything she writes celebrates caste and birthrights and her few portrayals of minorities have been cut out of 19th century stereotypes. Hardly the voice of a civil libertarian.

No, I would NOT describe her views as 'liberal' at all...
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: Marc Anthony
Date: September 15, 2020 06:49PM
The comments I’ve read that sparked the backlash seem typically and innocuously feminist to me and not transphobic. She appears to have been hurt by the patriarchy, and her promotion of women draws a distinction between people who start out as one gender then transition based on an identification vs. someone whose lived their whole life experience in that role. Maybe that’s technically exclusionary, but it hardly radical; it’s not even prejudicial.



Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: September 15, 2020 07:15PM
Quote
Marc Anthony
The comments I’ve read that sparked the backlash seem typically and innocuously feminist to me and not transphobic. She appears to have been hurt by the patriarchy, and her promotion of women draws a distinction between people who start out as one gender then transition based on an identification vs. someone whose lived their whole life experience in that role. Maybe that’s technically exclusionary, but it hardly radical; it’s not even prejudicial.

Bingo.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 15, 2020 09:25PM
Quote
Marc Anthony
The comments I’ve read that sparked the backlash seem typically and innocuously feminist to me and not transphobic. She appears to have been hurt by the patriarchy, and her promotion of women draws a distinction between people who start out as one gender then transition based on an identification vs. someone whose lived their whole life experience in that role. Maybe that’s technically exclusionary, but it hardly radical; it’s not even prejudicial.

[www.thecut.com]



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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 16, 2020 11:13AM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
Marc Anthony
The comments I’ve read that sparked the backlash seem typically and innocuously feminist to me and not transphobic. She appears to have been hurt by the patriarchy, and her promotion of women draws a distinction between people who start out as one gender then transition based on an identification vs. someone whose lived their whole life experience in that role. Maybe that’s technically exclusionary, but it hardly radical; it’s not even prejudicial.

[www.thecut.com]

thanks for that link, I hadn't been following this controversy around JK Rowling and that is a good summary.

While I'm not defending her position in any way, it seems to come from her own trauma, as a female survivor of sexual assault and domestic abuse. These types of life events can create heightened emotional needs for safety and a fear of men that many might consider irrational or unfounded. That is not feminism; but an emotional state that is unfortunately a life-altering reality for many women.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: September 16, 2020 11:25AM
It's a perfect example of how a system like patriarchy can turn vulnerable people (cis-women, some of whom are survivors of gender-based violence) against even more vulnerable people (trans-women, some of whom are also survivors of gender-based violence) by weaponizing an imagined fear that has its roots in the system of patriarchy itself.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 16, 2020 05:34PM
Quote
rjmacs
It's a perfect example of how a system like patriarchy can turn vulnerable people (cis-women, some of whom are survivors of gender-based violence) against even more vulnerable people (trans-women, some of whom are also survivors of gender-based violence) by weaponizing an imagined fear that has its roots in the system of patriarchy itself.

Maybe.

The problem with that line of thinking is that it doesn't leave room for free will and could be taken as absolution for contemptuous and even criminal behaviors.

At some point, the responsibility must lie with the actor. She's not a dim-witted puppet. She has taken the time to study the subject, deliberately selecting materials from disreputable sources to make a specious case.

She has made Twitter posts and published long essays and has now published a book promulgating hurtful falsehoods.

She has made choices.

This is how the marketplace should work. Her writing is harmful. People rebuke it. People stop buying it. People stop reading it. She makes fewer millions. Maybe her feelings are hurt. Maybe she learns some shame. Consequences and opportunity for personal and spiritual growth.



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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 16, 2020 06:48PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
rjmacs
It's a perfect example of how a system like patriarchy can turn vulnerable people (cis-women, some of whom are survivors of gender-based violence) against even more vulnerable people (trans-women, some of whom are also survivors of gender-based violence) by weaponizing an imagined fear that has its roots in the system of patriarchy itself.

Maybe.

The problem with that line of thinking is that it doesn't leave room for free will and could be taken as absolution for contemptuous and even criminal behaviors.

At some point, the responsibility must lie with the actor. She's not a dim-witted puppet. She has taken the time to study the subject, deliberately selecting materials from disreputable sources to make a specious case.

She has made Twitter posts and published long essays and has now published a book promulgating hurtful falsehoods.

She has made choices.

This is how the marketplace should work. Her writing is harmful. People rebuke it. People stop buying it. People stop reading it. She makes fewer millions. Maybe her feelings are hurt. Maybe she learns some shame. Consequences and opportunity for personal and spiritual growth.

But she is hurting people along the way. Which is sad.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: September 17, 2020 11:03AM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
rjmacs
It's a perfect example of how a system like patriarchy can turn vulnerable people (cis-women, some of whom are survivors of gender-based violence) against even more vulnerable people (trans-women, some of whom are also survivors of gender-based violence) by weaponizing an imagined fear that has its roots in the system of patriarchy itself.

Maybe.

The problem with that line of thinking is that it doesn't leave room for free will and could be taken as absolution for contemptuous and even criminal behaviors.

At some point, the responsibility must lie with the actor. She's not a dim-witted puppet. She has taken the time to study the subject, deliberately selecting materials from disreputable sources to make a specious case.

She has made Twitter posts and published long essays and has now published a book promulgating hurtful falsehoods.

She has made choices.

This is how the marketplace should work. Her writing is harmful. People rebuke it. People stop buying it. People stop reading it. She makes fewer millions. Maybe her feelings are hurt. Maybe she learns some shame. Consequences and opportunity for personal and spiritual growth.

Apologies if I implied that JKR is not responsible for the harms caused by her consciously transphobic actions. By posting this in the first place, I meant to indicate otherwise.

Recognizing the ways that systems of supremacy and domination (misogyny, racism, transphobia, and so on) are reflected in people's actions doesn't mean they aren't responsible. But it's also important to see the ways that systems like this are adaptive, and (through the actions of people, not by magic) are able to redirect anger at the system toward weaker parties.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: Janit
Date: September 18, 2020 05:01AM
Quote
rjmacs
Apologies if I implied that JKR is not responsible for the harms caused by her consciously transphobic actions. By posting this in the first place, I meant to indicate otherwise.

Recognizing the ways that systems of supremacy and domination (misogyny, racism, transphobia, and so on) are reflected in people's actions doesn't mean they aren't responsible. But it's also important to see the ways that systems like this are adaptive, and (through the actions of people, not by magic) are able to redirect anger at the system toward weaker parties.

And for many people, the first step toward change is recognizing how they themselves have participated in the problem.
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Re: What's JK Rowling's transphobic hangup about?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: September 18, 2020 09:59AM
Quote
Janit
Quote
rjmacs
Apologies if I implied that JKR is not responsible for the harms caused by her consciously transphobic actions. By posting this in the first place, I meant to indicate otherwise.

Recognizing the ways that systems of supremacy and domination (misogyny, racism, transphobia, and so on) are reflected in people's actions doesn't mean they aren't responsible. But it's also important to see the ways that systems like this are adaptive, and (through the actions of people, not by magic) are able to redirect anger at the system toward weaker parties.

And for many people, the first step toward change is recognizing how they themselves have participated in the problem.

That's a great point, Janit. It's been an enormously helpful tool for me, especially when I'm in spaces that don't center my experience and I feel awkward or uncomfortable. Understanding discomfort as part of other folks' everyday experience - not just something that happens around me, but that I cause through my inattention and ignorance - has helped me to relate to other people differently. It hasn't necessarily changed my political positions drastically, but it has changed my attitude toward compassion, understanding, and patience as obligations I have toward others, not just options.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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