advertisement
Forums

 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the 'Friendly' Political Ranting forum
Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 15, 2020 04:10PM
swampy made a comment on the lack of positivity here, and I concur we see way more negative than positive messages.

It's tempting to fall into clans and 'us vs them' mentality.

So put that aside, and humor me. I truly value and respect all of my neighbors and fellow citizens. As someone who is science-trained, I want to hear other sides to learn. I follow both left and right on my twitter feed etc.

So how do you think we can start to heal post Nov 2020 election? Ignore who is sworn in Jan 20, 2021. How will YOU contribute?

My city in 2021 will have a massive new set of leaders across the board - a recent new Mayor, new City Council chair, new City administrator, and a series of other leaders are turning over. The largest change since I've been here over a decade (our last Mayor served for over 30 years, to keep this in perspective). I plan to go to some City Council meetings, look for options for public comment, and do my best to listen to those that are against my views. One small rainbow of COVID is all of these are being streamed on line.

Heaven knows, the economic needs in 2021 are going to be some of the hardest we've experienced in our lifetimes. My wife and I are thinking some other options too.

My goal is to think not zero sum game, but taking an abundance mentality that working together means everyone can benefit.

What are you thinking of in terms of positive momentum in 2021?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: Speedy
Date: September 15, 2020 08:10PM
I’m buying more ammunition.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: testcase
Date: September 15, 2020 09:21PM
Quote
Speedy
I’m buying more ammunition.


ROTFL


Sounds like a plan I could get behind. boink smiley
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: Don C
Date: September 15, 2020 09:43PM
It's going to be tough. So long as we have TV and radio to stoke the we-them hatred the sides are likely to stay in their corners.

Maybe one thing we can do is not support those media whose income depends on corners. Not supporting "their" media is something I already do; giving up "my" media will be more difficult.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 15, 2020 09:51PM
Working together toward what goals? What are common goals we can come to a general consensus on?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 15, 2020 10:08PM
Quote
Don C
It's going to be tough. So long as we have TV and radio to stoke the we-them hatred the sides are likely to stay in their corners.

Maybe one thing we can do is not support those media whose income depends on corners. Not supporting "their" media is something I already do; giving up "my" media will be more difficult.

This resonates with what I've seen and heard. Mainstream media, especially cable news outlets, depend on advertising and that drives their news content. Conflict, whether real or manufactured has become their lifeblood; doesn't matter if you're comparing FOX, CNN, MSNBC or the main networks CBS, NBC. ABC or FOX - it's universal so looking for an alternative in that atmosphere is fruitless.

There was a time when NEWS and ENTERTAINMENT programming were strictly segregated. Then someone (I seem to recall it was CBS) decided to monetize NEWS and the rest quickly followed.

I don't know the answer, I do know the existing monopoly on news is entrenched and will remain that way so long as money in the form of advertising is tied to ratings. Today even PBS runs ads before and after their news programs.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 16, 2020 02:30AM
Quote
Speedy
I’m buying more ammunition.

Caputo advised just that, didn’t he?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: Speedy
Date: September 16, 2020 04:41AM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Speedy
I’m buying more ammunition.

Caputo advised just that, didn’t he?

Yup.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: September 16, 2020 07:20AM
Everybody here loves the mayor...Republican but all he does is Chamber-of-Commerce boosterism (i.e. "bring your company and its jobs here"), no politics, thankfully...I suspect he has the job as long as he wants it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2020 07:20AM by Bill in NC.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 16, 2020 10:25AM
Quote
Ted King
Working together toward what goals? What are common goals we can come to a general consensus on?

We could start with finding common ground.

I note swampy has not posted here, for example.

Until and unless we can have dialog, it's a lose-lose proposition.

It's going to be hard. I asked this same question of my Catholic wife last evening (who teaching religious ed professionally) - and she is unwilling to turn the other cheek.

Healing - working together on shared goals would be powerful.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 16, 2020 10:38AM
Quote
sekker

Healing - working together on shared goals would be powerful.

I certainly agree with this. I'm cautiously optimistic that new leadership from President Biden and VP Harris will help with the healing we need to move forward. It will also help if we have 3 functional branches of federal government again. Right now only the Supreme Court is working as it should.

Trump is a toxin - like a broken sewage pipe spewing freely - there is still clean-up after you get it capped, but at least the amount of damage starts to be limited.

I personally know life-long Republicans here in South Carolina who are voting Biden this year. And some folks who have never considered themselves political and have skipped a lot of elections, also going to show up for Biden. I know most Republicans will vote for Trump, but I think enough people have been hurt by his poor leadership that they're ready to try something else.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: September 16, 2020 11:31AM
[forums.macresource.com]



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 16, 2020 11:59AM
Quote
rjmacs
[forums.macresource.com]

Not sure which aspect of that thread you are pointing to. Happy to listen.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 16, 2020 12:01PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
sekker

Healing - working together on shared goals would be powerful.

I certainly agree with this. I'm cautiously optimistic that new leadership from President Biden and VP Harris will help with the healing we need to move forward. It will also help if we have 3 functional branches of federal government again. Right now only the Supreme Court is working as it should.

Trump is a toxin - like a broken sewage pipe spewing freely - there is still clean-up after you get it capped, but at least the amount of damage starts to be limited.

I personally know life-long Republicans here in South Carolina who are voting Biden this year. And some folks who have never considered themselves political and have skipped a lot of elections, also going to show up for Biden. I know most Republicans will vote for Trump, but I think enough people have been hurt by his poor leadership that they're ready to try something else.

Yes, but moving forward means forgetting some of this past. And forgiving those that made terrible decisions.

It'll be as close to recovery after a war as I hope to ever personally live through.

My Mom lived through WWII recovery as an American in Europe. I wish she was still around to give her perspective.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: September 16, 2020 12:13PM
Quote
sekker

Not sure which aspect of that thread you are pointing to. Happy to listen.

Sorry - meant to restate our 'what we're doing to contribute.' Here's the text:

We do mostly grass-roots direct organizing, grounded in several different non-partisan groups. Most of our work lately is ongoing work on police violence against BIPoC, the preservation of local historic Black burial grounds, plus new issues related to the rent crisis, covid testing, and workplace protections. This means different kinds of campaigns, but we're in regular contact with council members, state reps, and to a lesser degree, congressional reps. We work on local elections, and often in coalitions of several groups.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: numbered
Date: September 16, 2020 02:25PM
Quote
RgrF
This resonates with what I've seen and heard. Mainstream media, especially cable news outlets, depend on advertising and that drives their news content. Conflict, whether real or manufactured has become their lifeblood; doesn't matter if you're comparing FOX, CNN, MSNBC or the main networks CBS, NBC. ABC or FOX - it's universal so looking for an alternative in that atmosphere is fruitless.

Polling evidence suggests that it is at least plausible for us to consider sekker's vision of coming together in some way.

But there are at least two structural issues that will prevent a coming together in the short term. First, the media is intentionally structured to chase conflict because emotions bring attention and clicks. This is true for cable and Facebook alike. Fox makes big money with the con they run. They would hurt their cash flow if they reduced conflict. Just think of right wing radio.

The second structural issue is money in politics. Very wealthy right wingers have co-opted institutions to do their bidding. A key issue is that if you commit heresy and do not do their bidding you will find 'wingnut welfare' will disappear. Thus, even when you know better, you cannot risk heresy.

Since these institutions have huge incentives to create conflict, it is hard for your people to have kum-ba-ya in any but the most local situations where there is a chance personal relationships can overcome the structure.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 16, 2020 03:02PM
Quote
sekker
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
sekker

Healing - working together on shared goals would be powerful.

I certainly agree with this. I'm cautiously optimistic that new leadership from President Biden and VP Harris will help with the healing we need to move forward. It will also help if we have 3 functional branches of federal government again. Right now only the Supreme Court is working as it should.

Trump is a toxin - like a broken sewage pipe spewing freely - there is still clean-up after you get it capped, but at least the amount of damage starts to be limited.

I personally know life-long Republicans here in South Carolina who are voting Biden this year. And some folks who have never considered themselves political and have skipped a lot of elections, also going to show up for Biden. I know most Republicans will vote for Trump, but I think enough people have been hurt by his poor leadership that they're ready to try something else.

Yes, but moving forward means forgetting some of this past. And forgiving those that made terrible decisions.

It'll be as close to recovery after a war as I hope to ever personally live through.

My Mom lived through WWII recovery as an American in Europe. I wish she was still around to give her perspective.

We don't have to forget, it's important that we don't. As for forgiveness, that means different things to different people. For me it's just letting go of anger because after awhile it's useless anyway, and moving on. You don't have to embrace the person who caused harm, or release them from responsibility, or deal with them in any way.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: September 16, 2020 03:12PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
sekker

Yes, but moving forward means forgetting some of this past. And forgiving those that made terrible decisions.

We don't have to forget, it's important that we don't. As for forgiveness, that means different things to different people. For me it's just letting go of anger because after awhile it's useless anyway, and moving on. You don't have to embrace the person who caused harm, or release them from responsibility, or deal with them in any way.

Agreed. Also, it's important that when we ask people to forget, we also ask whether the harm done them has been addressed, remedied, and resolved.

There's anger and resentment - lots of us justifiably feel these things toward our political opponents. But that's different from the real, material, measurable harm that has devastated some Americans far more than others. We should be prepared to calibrate our timelines for forgiveness with how great the harms that caused the anger.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 16, 2020 03:48PM
Quote
numbered
Quote
RgrF
This resonates with what I've seen and heard. Mainstream media, especially cable news outlets, depend on advertising and that drives their news content. Conflict, whether real or manufactured has become their lifeblood; doesn't matter if you're comparing FOX, CNN, MSNBC or the main networks CBS, NBC. ABC or FOX - it's universal so looking for an alternative in that atmosphere is fruitless.

Polling evidence suggests that it is at least plausible for us to consider sekker's vision of coming together in some way.

But there are at least two structural issues that will prevent a coming together in the short term. First, the media is intentionally structured to chase conflict because emotions bring attention and clicks. This is true for cable and Facebook alike. Fox makes big money with the con they run. They would hurt their cash flow if they reduced conflict. Just think of right wing radio.

“If you have two guys on a stage and one guy says, ‘I have a solution to the Middle East problem,’ and the other guy falls in the orchestra pit, who do you think is going to be on the evening news?“
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 16, 2020 05:37PM
One of the things that needs to happen more for there to be significant healing is that a great many more of us need to agree more on the facts about what has actually happened. The truth of what happened.

I think a big part of the great polarization we have is due to there being two predominate perceptions of the truth of events. One set of perceptions is largely anchored in trust in good journalistic practices and science (what I think are our two most powerful truth filters). The other set of perceptions are anchored in a constellation of "truth" sources like Fox and QAnon where good journalism is vilified (even when it happens to happen in house) and science is scorned.

Having two widely desperate perceptions of truth is far from the only thing making it difficult to heal, but I think it's a big obstacle. Unfortunately, even if we could come to a fairly good consensus on the truth of what has happened with respect to many pressing concerns, we'd still face polarization on why things happened the way they did and answers to questions of what we ought* to do about what happened even if we were to mostly agree on what and why it happened.

Sorry if I'm sounding like so much of a downer about the prospects of healing, but when I see the growth of acceptance of so many conspiracy theories that have no grounding in truth (as I see the truth) and the violence that can so easily be provoked in someone who believes those conspiracy theories fervently, I really worry about the prospects for healing.


*That's where the issue of not having common goals I mentioned earlier in the thread is relevant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2020 05:37PM by Ted King.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 16, 2020 06:41PM
I deal with anti-vaxxers at work. Their 'reality' is entirely fabricated - literally ALL 'data' they 'cite' is invented.

You cannot move them by showing them real data. That's not the issue.

You listen to their leaders, legitimate groups are based on parents with kids with autism. They want to know why their children are not normal, and they want to blame someone or something.

I am not yelling at them because they believe in conspiracy theories. I am trying to get them help they need - based on science - for their most important challenge in their lives.

I will use the same to help with healing post Nov 3.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: Sam3
Date: September 17, 2020 03:48AM
I fear that there will be no healing until we go through an armed civil war with plenty of casualties. What we are seeing now will only get worse, especially if Biden gets elected and Trump blows up the "rigged election" angle.



The arts are not luxuries but assets that give way more than they cost.
--Ronald Tucker on YouTube

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
--Frank Zappa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2020 03:49AM by Sam3.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: Janit
Date: September 17, 2020 07:40AM
Quote
Sam3
I fear that there will be no healing until we go through an armed civil war with plenty of casualties. What we are seeing now will only get worse, especially if Biden gets elected and Trump blows up the "rigged election" angle.

I share your fears.

Nevertheless, healing would still require a dramatic rethinking of how to deal with our differences. Otherwise, armed conflict would simply reinforce the wounds that were never really healed after our official Civil War. There is a reason why some people refer to the period after the Civil War as the "First Reconstruction" and consider Black Lives Matter as a third movement toward reconstruction (the Civil Rights movements of the mid-20th century being the second).
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 17, 2020 03:05PM
Quote
Janit
Quote
Sam3
I fear that there will be no healing until we go through an armed civil war with plenty of casualties. What we are seeing now will only get worse, especially if Biden gets elected and Trump blows up the "rigged election" angle.

I share your fears.

Nevertheless, healing would still require a dramatic rethinking of how to deal with our differences. Otherwise, armed conflict would simply reinforce the wounds that were never really healed after our official Civil War. There is a reason why some people refer to the period after the Civil War as the "First Reconstruction" and consider Black Lives Matter as a third movement toward reconstruction (the Civil Rights movements of the mid-20th century being the second).

Some feel that only a war with an external entity will unify the country. However, I like to think that we were fighting the economic war that was the Great Depression well BEFORE WWII.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 17, 2020 03:07PM
PS One of the true shames of the post-WWII America was the failure to make the GI Bill and all housing truly color-blind. We could have a far more diverse country with more uniform economic success; instead white middle America benefitted 10x more than non-White America.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 17, 2020 03:18PM
Some feel that only a war with an external entity will unify the country. However, I like to think that we were fighting the economic war that was the Great Depression well BEFORE WWII

...and not gaining ground until WWII!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Thinking of healing in US politics - personal edition
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 18, 2020 09:14AM
Quote
RgrF
Some feel that only a war with an external entity will unify the country. However, I like to think that we were fighting the economic war that was the Great Depression well BEFORE WWII

...and not gaining ground until WWII!

I don't think that's fair at all. The unemployment rates had gone way down, safety nets were in place, and programs like the WPA and CCC were no longer needed.

All of that was before the bombing of Hawaii by Japan.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 104
Record Number of Users: 186 on February 20, 2020
Record Number of Guests: 2330 on October 25, 2018