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Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: Buzz
Date: October 12, 2020 07:22PM
Don't treat Covid patients at medical facilities if the patient has attended a super-spreader event.
House/quarentine 'em in a hotel until they get better, or die.
Keep the doctors and hospitals available for people that practice and follow proper health guidelines.
Why should idiots be allowed to siphon precious medical resources from the more deserving people that behave properly?
I'm not saying to totally ignore the idiots... just ignore 'em until all the good behaving people have been completely treated, and the medical resources are no longer being strained.

Put the resolution on the House floor. Now.
==
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: RgrF
Date: October 12, 2020 07:40PM
Who decides?
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: October 12, 2020 08:01PM
Quote
Buzz
Don't treat Covid patients at medical facilities if the patient has attended a super-spreader event.
House/quarentine 'em in a hotel until they get better, or die.
Keep the doctors and hospitals available for people that practice and follow proper health guidelines.
Why should idiots be allowed to siphon precious medical resources from the more deserving people that behave properly?
I'm not saying to totally ignore the idiots... just ignore 'em until all the good behaving people have been completely treated, and the medical resources are no longer being strained.

Put the resolution on the House floor. Now.
==

Could one insert “smoking” in there for “COVID”?
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: October 12, 2020 09:50PM
Impossible to track, not to mention probably violates the Hippocratic oath of treating people the same. Even if that doesn't really happen in many cases.
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: October 12, 2020 11:10PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Impossible to track, not to mention probably violates the Hippocratic oath of treating people the same. Even if that doesn't really happen in many cases.

This. Which is the same reason smokers with lung cancer get treated. Or the person who tries to commit suicide. Every life is worth saving.



C(-)ris
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: Buzz
Date: October 13, 2020 04:31AM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
mrbigstuff
Impossible to track, not to mention probably violates the Hippocratic oath of treating people the same. Even if that doesn't really happen in many cases.

This. Which is the same reason smokers with lung cancer get treated. Or the person who tries to commit suicide. Every life is worth saving.

My point was, not that stupid lives shouldn't be treated, but that stupid lives shouldn't be treated first, at the expense of well behaving lives. Once the well behaving lives are attended to first, and completely, then the dummies can have access to medical care. As to smokers, there is no reason that the tobacco companies shouldn't be paying for 100% for all smoking related healthcare, and be liable to all people adversely affected by secondhand smoke in any fashion, as well.

Heck, a couple of years after my step-dad died, dear old ma looked into getting a face lift. Doc told her she had quit quit smoking, or no dice on the new face. She quit cold turkey, no problem. About 15 years earlier, her dad, a 3 - 4 pack a day Pall Mall puffer, went to his doc for heart and respiratory ailments, and his doc told him to quit or die. He quit cold turkey, and lasted another 4 - 5 years.

Healthcare costs were a lot cheaper back then, but the big tobacco lobbyists had already taken hold of their government puppets, and we're all still paying the price today. If I'd've known that all it would've taken for maternal unit to kick the Camels, was a freakin' face lift, I would've paid for it with my paper route earnings in 7th grade, which IIRC, was about the time Grandad got doc-talked into giving up the coffin nails.

The Hippocratic oath, while admirable, has certainly come under fire during the current pandemic. While admittedly obtuse, my point w/ takin' it to the House was not in jest; with healthcare resources being stretched beyond capacity, and life saving decisions falling into the hands of critical care docs, laws clarifying priority of care during pandemic conditions need to be on the books, not in the whim of those doctors' hands. IOW, per the law, the stupids go to the end of the line, so the docs don't have to spend their valuable time trying to decide who gets treated first, instead of attending to the more deserving that are in need of care. Laws mandating contact tracing would be a help, too.
==
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: October 13, 2020 08:03AM
So do we do the same for those who refuse to get insurance?

it's the whole slippery slope thing.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: October 13, 2020 08:47AM
Quote
Ombligo
So do we do the same for those who refuse to get insurance?

it's the whole slippery slope thing.

We need to get everyone some level of catastrophic insurance. In a way we sort of do already, it just means declaring bankruptcy every time you have surgery.



C(-)ris
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: October 13, 2020 09:48AM
Maybe what the long term end goal for Orange Man is to turn his failed hotels into hospitals for those that have attended his super spreader events. They can just set up shuttle busses that go straight from the rally to the nearest failed hotel with the tRump name on it.

Medical care overseen by Sean Conley MD
Security by the Proud Boys
Eric can drive a limo around that takes the infected on parades around the city
Ivanka can be in charge of decoration and soft goods, imported from China
Donnie Jr can head up accounting and billing
Rudy heads up legal services



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 13, 2020 10:56AM
Quote
Markintosh
Maybe what the long term end goal for Orange Man is to turn his failed hotels into hospitals for those that have attended his super spreader events. They can just set up shuttle busses that go straight from the rally to the nearest failed hotel with the tRump name on it.

Medical care overseen by Sean Conley MD
Security by the Proud Boys
Eric can drive a limo around that takes the infected on parades around the city
Ivanka can be in charge of decoration and soft goods, imported from China
Donnie Jr can head up accounting and billing
Rudy heads up legal services

Procurement by Pres. Trump.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: Buzz
Date: October 13, 2020 04:36PM
Quote
Ombligo
So do we do the same for those who refuse to get insurance?
it's the whole slippery slope thing.

Quote
C(-)ris
We need to get everyone some level of catastrophic insurance. In a way we sort of do already, it just means declaring bankruptcy every time you have surgery.


Creating a viable healthcare system is not all that difficult; the difficulty is overcoming the lobby against doing so. Nothing slippery involved.

Buzz's USA Healthcare Plan (in a nutshell)

-> Everybody citizen has coverage.

There would be an Individual Gross Receipts/Income Tax that scales from 0% - 3%, depending on income level.
-
There would be a Business/Corporate Gross Receipts/Income Tax that scales from 2% - 4%, depending on income level.
-
There would be mandatory scalable, employer provided (and part or wholly paid for) supplemental health insurance depending on company's number of employees, and revenues. There would be guidelines covering company-wide employees' choices and options (HMO, PPO, HSA, etc.). IOW, as a company's size and resources grow, so does the mandated coverage level. Smaller companies are free to select higher/better levels of supplemental coverage (to provide better min level coverage, or get higher HSA contribution limits, etc.).
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This supplemental coverage would be put out for bid to all private insurance companies, based on a mandated coverage matrix. If a company receives no sub-matrix bids, the company's coverage will be randomly assigned to an insurance company at a rate schedule based on a nominal % reduction from the matrix. If/when a company receives multiple bids for their supplemental coverage, they are free to negotiate their own best deal.
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This supplemental coverage shall be renewable/reviewable annually, though if/when a company receives any bid(s), as opposed to being assigned a carrier, they are free to negotiate a longer term contract based on the lesser of a contracted % rate less than the mandated matrix, or maintaining the existing price, again, whichever is less.
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In order to stay in business, insurance carriers must accept all companies assigned to them. An insurance carrier can opt out of an assigned company's coverage on an annual basis, and will not be assigned that company again for a several year period TBD. Of course, the carrier is free to bid on retaining the company's business at the end of the assigned annual period.
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Doctors' med school tuition will be waived if they agree to practice in an assigned locale, in order to as many citizens as possible with easy access to medical care. Doctor's that wish to opt out would incur a debt equal to double/triple/quadruple their equivalent tuition (or perhaps a fixed $$ sum) payable to the National Healthcare System within a stated period, as well as being liable to their med school for their standard tuition. Kinda like joining the military service to start their career, and ensure access to healthcare for all.
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Medical groups would be required to treat a percentage of under/lesser covered patients commensurate w/ the population's coverage levels in their catchment area. Groups not meeting this criteria would receive reduced reimbursement from the national plan, until such time as they meet criteria. Below a certain threshold/level, they would receive no national reimbursement whatsoever.
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Insurance carriers would be free to offer designer policies for companies/individuals looking to only deal w/ opted out medical groups, but I'd hate to think what those premiums would be.
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The national plan would/should cover ~50% - 70% of all scheduled, regionally adjusted healthcare costs. The mandated private matrix coverage would cover the balance. Base coverage level citizens would be assigned treatment via a locally administered HMO-esque program. Such coverage would be based on provider/facility availability, which dovetails as outlined above.
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All preexisting conditions are of course covered. The haggling over courses of treatment would be substantially reduced, as the courses of treatment would be overseen by doctors, not insurance company bureaucrats.
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Everybody wins. Well, everybody that should win, wins.
==
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 13, 2020 09:13PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
mrbigstuff
Impossible to track, not to mention probably violates the Hippocratic oath of treating people the same. Even if that doesn't really happen in many cases.

This. Which is the same reason smokers with lung cancer get treated. Or the person who tries to commit suicide. Every life is worth saving.

There is one in particular which I would not save. if I were in a cliff with him, he hanging on my hand, I would let him go.
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 14, 2020 11:05AM
If we take up your health plan, Buzz, do we get the Hippocratic Oath back?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Realized the solution while eating dinner...
Posted by: Buzz
Date: October 14, 2020 12:16PM
Quote
rjmacs
If we take up your health plan, Buzz, do we get the Hippocratic Oath back?

Absolutely. The nutshell version leaves a lot of the nuances out for sake of brevity (which I kinda whiffed on anyway), but was intended to present the broad strokes. The broader strokes are/would hopefully be, that with the proper, cohesive health plan (and education, immigration, and windfall profits/inflation/speculation, etc. plans, I have those, too), that an idiot like Cheeto would never make it to the White House, so any future pandemic would not, and could not be as divisive as Covid19. Therefore, there wouldn't be the Covidiots we're seeing today, because there wouldn't be a Cheeto creating them.

Then, in our more reasonable world, there would be adequate health resources available, since science would prevail, and the newly minted doctors would be spread around the country to where they're needed. The least insured are still at least partially insured, and would be subject to their local, HMO-esque level care, and the docs treating them would certainly be following The Oath.

As I see it, there are a handful of basic human rights and services that ought to be inherent in a thriving democracy. These rights and services need to be above politics. It really is that simple. There's a lot, a REAL LOT of money in these things, and that money NEEDS to go to the rights and services that ought to be inherent in a thriving democracy; NOT in the hands of greedy billionaires, and their henchmen, that look at that pile of money as something they can try to acquire a piece, or the entirety of, at the expense of the democracy that they wish to live in. They should live in it, not try to destroy it at the masses' expense for their personal gain. (So much for brevity)

Keep the funds and funding for the handful of basic human rights and services that ought to be inherent in a thriving democracy above reproach (more Constitutional Amendments, as needed). There is still plenty of valuable stuff to haggle over in that thriving democracy. Great ideas and inventions would still be rewarded; the biggest change would that billionaires wouldn't be getting richer while causing a sick, infected person to be stuck in a hospital hallway, so that they could harvest more dollars from such misery. Apple and Tesla would still be APPL and TSLA, but the poor, unemployed third cousin of a TSLA battery factory worker wouldn't have to worry about getting medical treatment if they got sick.
==
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