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biden was great!
Posted by: robfilms
Date: October 02, 2008 09:35PM
i thought joe biden was great.

his responses were measured and thoughtful. he did a good job linking the failed policies of the bush years to what mccain is proposing.

i didn't realize that he was such a good speaker.

nice job, joe.

be well

rob
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: mattkime
Date: October 02, 2008 09:37PM
i was impressed as well but i didn't need impressing.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: October 02, 2008 09:40PM
I call it a draw. They both made their points. Biden was more coherent and concise. Palin did not repeat her CBS News performance, so the Republicans are thrilled I'm sure.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: October 02, 2008 09:41PM
I was actually impressed with BOTH of their performances, BUT...

I came away thinking that Biden really knew what he was talking about, whereas Palin was just full of it. Basically I didn't buy anything she was selling.

Also I did notice a few blunders on BOTH sides. I'm a bit surprised that the MSM hasn't picked up on these yet.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: AlphaDog
Date: October 02, 2008 09:43PM
I haven't heard what the media has had to say, but I sure hope somebody comments on the fact Palin was slow to catch on to the idea that her answers were not always matching the question. Overall, I think all of that preparation in Arizona paid off for Palin; she certainly did much better in the debate that what I've seen in interviews.

My personal opinion is that Joe Biden really did outshine her all the way.

Ooops. I don't know who that was I just heard talking (I'm not near a TV), but it was a comment about Palin's answers not corresponding with the question!
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: bfd
Date: October 02, 2008 09:46PM
Palin didn't trip over her tongue. That's all she needed to do. Biden's an polished pro. He spared no expense in pulling out the choke-up card near the end. Probably saved his azz…
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: miK.
Date: October 02, 2008 09:46PM
But were the Joe Sixpacks and Soccer Moms impressed? confused smiley
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: October 02, 2008 09:46PM
I think that was on purpose, AlphaDog. There hasn't been enough time to bring her up to speed on everything she might need to respond to, so the coaches told her to fall back on energy policy whenever she didn't know how to answer.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: michaelb
Date: October 02, 2008 09:49PM
Palin was very good, she held her own and at times set the agenda. She didn't answer the questions, but that is not unusual for a politician. She sounded very much like a democratic on almost every point, and made no effort at all to defend the current administration.

Biden was fine. He gotter better and stronger at the end then the beginning. But I still think Biden is essentially a nonfactor in this election.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: October 02, 2008 09:58PM
Quote
miK.
But were the Joe Sixpacks and Soccer Moms impressed? confused smiley

miK, that's part of why I wasn't buying anything Palin was selling. It sounded so false and affected to me.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: October 02, 2008 10:02PM
Palin comes out OK by not answering the questions and not screwing up.
That's a pretty low bar IMHO.

Biden did as expected and fortunately didn't trip over his tongue, answered the questions and tried to get her to do the same.
They both got their talking points in - Biden was just smoother about it IMHO but again that was expected.

In context - not much changes in the election except there is no doubt about Palin stying on the ticket.
She may have temporarily stopped the campaigns hemorrhaging and stayed off the calling for her head,
but come morning they will still be packing up the bumper stickers in Detroit



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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: Don Kiyoti
Date: October 02, 2008 10:03PM
It's sad that "better than expected" is the new "good enough." Palin didn't implode exactly, but she did let loose with a few of her nonsensical word-floods. She still doesn't strike me as one who knows what she's talking about. A lot of folks are gonna find her very appealing gosh darn it also! You betcha the thought of her in the Oval Office makes me ill.





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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: October 02, 2008 10:03PM
Quote
michaelb
Palin was very good, she held her own and at times set the agenda. She didn't answer the questions, but that is not unusual for a politician. She sounded very much like a democratic on almost every point, and made no effort at all to defend the current administration.

Actually, I wouldn't say that's completely true ... when the subject of "abject failure" came up, for example.

Quote
michaelb
Biden was fine. He gotter better and stronger at the end then the beginning. But I still think Biden is essentially a nonfactor in this election.

Again, I don't know that's true. He's a factor insofar as that people WILL compare him to Palin, in terms of which is better equipped, prepared, and ready to become the President.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: October 02, 2008 10:06PM
Palin still sounded like that "U.S. Americans" girl at times, but I doubt Tina Fey will be doing a cameo on SNL this Saturday.

I thought it was pretty ho-hum, overall, so to me, it's a push.





I am not Ryan Seacrest, and I do not approve this message.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: kanesa
Date: October 02, 2008 10:08PM
She said nothing substantive. She never answered a question but rambled and repeated herself over and over. But since the bar was so low for her, she looks like she won.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: miK.
Date: October 02, 2008 10:09PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
miK.
But were the Joe Sixpacks and Soccer Moms impressed? confused smiley

miK, that's part of why I wasn't buying anything Palin was selling. It sounded so false and affected to me.

Yes A-Dog, I agree.

Other phrases I didn't expect to hear:

"Doggone it..."
"Say it ain't so, Joe!"
"Her reward is in heaven" (referring to Biden's deceased wife)
"Shout out"
"Nuke-ya-ler"
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 02, 2008 10:12PM
Palin exceeded my expectations by leaps and bounds. Biden did better than I expected, too. I think she ran out of gas and Biden seemed to gain energy in inverse proportion, so whereas I thought they were neck and neck at first, by the end I felt she was sagging and beginning to be boring. I admit to being positively amazed that she did as well as she did. I can't see this having very much effect on the race but it probably buoyed the spirits of McCain supporters quite a bit.

I think there are a lot of people who owe Gwen Ifill a huge apology.



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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: October 02, 2008 10:12PM
What's with Palin winking so much? Is she trying to turn-on all the sex
starved idiots that are lusting after her?



Grateful11
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: October 02, 2008 10:16PM
By the way -- example of blunders they each made:

Palin: she referred to there being a mess on MAIN Street, not Wall Street-- I think she meant the latter.

Biden: he made reference to a vote that McCain didn't actually make.

... and yes, I also noticed the Palin-isms:

1) The winking -- she was trying to be folksy. Making reference to extra-credit for elementary schoolers, Joe Six-Pack and soccer moms. Whether or not this works, well, if you buy into it...

2) Some of her comments could have been taken as personally insulting to Biden. This is curious especially in light of how everyone was warning Biden not to attack her "as a woman".

3) At one point, she did nearly lose composure. It was right at the end of one of her answers. Biden, in contrast, never lost composure.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: AlphaDog
Date: October 02, 2008 10:20PM
Quote
Grateful11
What's with Palin winking so much?

She wasn't winking; her eyelids were tripping on her bangs. A couple of times I had to quit looking at the TV, because it was so distracting.

Second edit to respond to PeterB: "she referred to there being a mess on MAIN Street, not Wall Street." Freudian. Have you taken a look at Main Street lately? It ain't lookin' too good either.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2008 10:22PM by AlphaDog.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: October 02, 2008 10:27PM
Quote
AlphaDog
Quote
Grateful11
What's with Palin winking so much?

She wasn't winking; her eyelids were tripping on her bangs. A couple of times I had to quit looking at the TV, because it was so distracting.

Second edit to respond to PeterB: "she referred to there being a mess on MAIN Street, not Wall Street." Freudian. Have you taken a look at Main Street lately? It ain't lookin' too good either.

No, the winking is a Palin-ism that reminded me a lot of a character on one particular episode of Seinfeld and also a character on MadTV. I'll post a YouTube if I can find one, but basically it isn't just the winking, but combined with the scrunching of the face. It seems to be something that some Midwestern women do.

And yes, I realize Main Street isn't doing well either, but with her not correcting herself (and Biden politely not correcting her either), it came across as potentially insulting.

Oh, and another thing: Palin referring to her family as "diverse" -- ugh, yikes. A number of people are going to be very insulted by that.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2008 10:32PM by PeterB.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: wurm
Date: October 02, 2008 10:30PM
Quote
PeterB
...Biden, in contrast, never lost composure.

Well, that's not entirely accurate. He did choke up when talking about his family tragedy, but I don't think anyone would begrudge him that, and I realize that's not what you were talking about.

I thought he was as good as I've even seen him.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: October 02, 2008 10:34PM
Quote
wurm
Quote
PeterB
...Biden, in contrast, never lost composure.

Well, that's not entirely accurate. He did choke up when talking about his family tragedy, but I don't think anyone would begrudge him that, and I realize that's not what you were talking about.

I thought he was as good as I've even seen him.

Yep, that's why I said I think they BOTH did better than I'd expected.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: October 02, 2008 10:40PM
Quote
PeterB
Oh, and another thing: Palin referring to her family as "diverse" -- ugh, yikes. A number of people are going to be very insulted by that.

By that I think she meant many in her family held diverging opinions on certain subjects, a "vast variety," if you will.

I think I took her at her word when she said she was "tolerant" of other lifestyles.

Both sides seem to agree on that particular wedge issue this year, FWIW, so I imagine it's a non-issue this year.





I am not Ryan Seacrest, and I do not approve this message.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: Kramerica
Date: October 02, 2008 10:44PM
I wasn't sure Palin knew what an achilles heel was. She definitely didn't answer the question.

Biden was very impressive.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: October 02, 2008 10:48PM
Senator OBIDEN???

Did you miss that? And the apology at the end?


OBIDEN???
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: wurm
Date: October 02, 2008 10:57PM
I meant to comment on "O'Biden" . That was the one time I laughed out loud. I didn't catch the apology. Did she apologize about O'Biden? I also noticed she slipped in and out of "nucular" and "nuclear".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2008 10:58PM by wurm.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: October 02, 2008 11:05PM
Quote
wurm
I meant to comment on "O'Biden" . That was the one time I laughed out loud. I didn't catch the apology. Did she apologize about O'Biden? I also noticed she slipped in and out of "nucular" and "nuclear".

I can't believe I forgot that.
It's understandable, though.
Still funny.

I noticed the nucular/nuclear thing, too.
It's less grating from her than from that other guy.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: October 02, 2008 11:15PM
Palin didn't morph into Gary Bussey, so she won.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: laarree
Date: October 02, 2008 11:18PM
Quote
Jimmypoo
Senator OBIDEN???

Did you miss that? And the apology at the end?


OBIDEN???

I did hear Mrs. McPalin say that.




.................................................................................................
*We are just a quarantined people under an evil sun.*
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: October 02, 2008 11:18PM
Palin was dumping the answers in the first sentence and then rolling into some rehearsed buzz phrases and repetitious garble every damn time...If they had debated in the same format as Obama and McCain did, with Leherer interjecting and directing the focus, she would have been done for.

I'm pretty sure she had an electronic notepad with a keyword cue in her podium...i was also wondering if she had a freakin earpiece, call me suspicious but her delivery suggested it. Her tone would change in the most abrupt way, as if prompted..she would roll through these points like someone was talkin her through it...looked very strange to me

Populist @#$%&.

If I hear the word maverick again I'm gonna cut off my hands and make broth. (@#$%&)
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: artie67
Date: October 02, 2008 11:24PM
I thought the debate was telling in that Biden had to be restrained but factual and Palin had to stay on track with the question that was asked.He did, she did her best. Did anyone else see on cspan Brad Sherman (democrat from Woodland Hills/Northridge, Ca) give a speech on the Bailout just before the debate? Please post it if you can find it. I'll try to find it. It was another side of the coin.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: kanesa
Date: October 02, 2008 11:27PM
She said nothing.

I only hope now we never talk about her again. I hope the fascination is gone. But she will say something stupid again soon and the debate will continue.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: SteveO
Date: October 03, 2008 12:00AM
Aye, she said nothing of real substance. She sounded hollow to me, like she didn't have an original though in her cute and perky little head that she so loves to bob and play to the viewing audience like some kind of parakeet. I wonder if her skirt could have been any tighter as well. That is not a sexist remark, I seriously wondered that. A bit unprofessional for the occasion imho.

As mentioned above, it looked like she was being fed lines. I kept looking for a wire or something. Still, she came across as articulate even though she didn't always answer the q. By the yardstick of "she didn't implode" she will be seen to have competed well. A shame that our standards have been so lowered for the highest offices in the land. But that is what 8 years of a high-functioning moran will get you as Begala said.

O'Biden totally rocked. He cleaned her clock several times, in fact. That he talked about his deceased family is no cause for sentimentalism or shame, he did so with the great dignity, honor and respect that befits them and anyone who says differently is simply either a callous jerk or acting like one. Having lost my wife at only 32 and tearing up when he did, I speak from experience. And so do several others on this board and even in this thread.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: (vikm)
Date: October 03, 2008 01:17AM
Quote
Kramerica
I wasn't sure Palin knew what an achilles heel was. She definitely didn't answer the question.

Biden was very impressive.

That was the exact thought my wife and I had. She had no clue what an achilles heel was. Even though many politicians don't answer the exact question asked of them, it was pretty obvious she was clueless.

I thought she did fine and didn't mess up. That said, it was obvious that she has had all of the talking points drilled into her head for a week. It became clear when she failed to breathe whilst trying to recite the memorized answers during most of the debate. That and the fact, as noted by someone above that she kept repeating herself. It's like she had a limited pool of information that she kept drawing from and ran out of material. May have worked in a 45 minute debate but showed her lack of knowledge over 90 minutes. That "Aw shucks, Alaskan-Hillbilly" manner of speaking got old real quick, too. It's supposed to be a fairly formal debate "don'tcha know"?

Biden was excellent. It's no wonder the polls showed 90+ percent of those asked though he had a firm grasp of everything being discussed. Palin clocked in in the 60's range.

It was pretty obvious to me that they are in two different leagues. I realize that most won't base their votes on who the VP is but if they did there should be absolutely no question as to who the only one qualified to take over is.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: GGD
Date: October 03, 2008 03:35AM
Quote
SteveO
As mentioned above, it looked like she was being fed lines. I kept looking for a wire or something. Still, she came across as articulate even though she didn't always answer the q. By the yardstick of "she didn't implode" she will be seen to have competed well. A shame that our standards have been so lowered for the highest offices in the land. But that is what 8 years of a high-functioning moran will get you as Begala said.

My theory is that they just prepared her with a set of answers that she rehearsed over and over and just recited in order as questions were asked. It didn't matter at all what the question actually was. She also seemed to be trying to run out the clock a bit at the beginning of each answer with filler chit-chat.

At a company that I worked for years ago there was a VP that would have large meetings with his whole organization, and would sometimes take questions during his presentation. His answer was always that the next slide explains all of that, and would just continue on with his presentation even though the next slide rarely touched on what the question was.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: swampy
Date: October 03, 2008 08:45AM
There were enough gaffs on both sides, but I see from this thread that there's only talk of Palin's. Let's list a few of Biden's

From Factcheck [www.factcheck.org]

Biden incorrectly said “John McCain voted the exact same way” as Obama on a controversial troop funding bill. The two were actually on opposite sides.

Biden wrongly claimed that McCain “voted the exact same way” as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it. Biden was referring to an amendment that didn't address taxes at that income level.

Biden wrongly claimed that McCain had said "he wouldn't even sit down" with the president of Spain. Actually, McCain didn't reject a meeting, but simply refused to commit himself one way or the other during an interview.

Biden claimed that McCain said in a magazine article that he wanted to deregulate the health care industry as the banking industry had been. That’s taking McCain’s words out of context. As we’ve said before, he was talking specifically about his proposal to allow the sale of health insurance across state lines.

Biden said five times that McCain's tax plan would give oil companies a "$4 billion tax cut." As we’ve noted previously, McCain’s plan would cut the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent — for ALL corporations, not just oil companies. Biden uses a Democratic think tank's estimate for what the rate change is worth to the five largest U.S. oil companies.

Biden said that Iraq had an "$80 billion surplus." The country was once projected to have as much as a $79 billion surplus, but no more. The Iraqis have $29 billion in the bank, and could have $47 billion to $59 billion by the end of the year, as we noted when Obama used the incorrect figure. A $21 billion supplemental spending bill, passed by the Iraqi legislature in August, knocked down the old projection.

Biden said four times that McCain had voted 20 times against funding alternative energy. However, in analyzing the Obama campaign's list of votes after the first presidential debate, we found the number was actually 11. In the other instances the Obama-Biden campaign cites, McCain voted not against alternative energy but against mandatory use of alternative energy, or he voted in favor of allowing exemptions from these mandates.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: DharmaDog
Date: October 03, 2008 09:26AM
Ooh! Ooh! Ooh!

I can play this game! Let's take a look at Palin's gaffs (also from factcheck):

Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to “pre-surge” levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.

Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.

Palin claimed McCain’s health care plan would be “budget neutral,” costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.

Palin wrongly claimed that “millions of small businesses” would see tax increases under Obama’s tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases.

Palin also repeated the exaggeration that Obama voted 94 times to increase taxes. That number includes seven votes that would have lowered taxes for many, while raising them on corporations or affluent individuals; 23 votes that were against tax cuts; and 17 that came on just 7 different bills.

Palin also said that Obama’s plan would be "universal government run" health care and that health care would be "taken over by the feds." That's not the case at all. As we’ve said before, Obama’s plan would not replace or remove private insurance, or require people to enroll in a public plan. It would increase the offerings of publicly funded health care.

Palin got newly appointed Gen. David D. McKiernan's name wrong when she called him McClellan. And, more important, Gen. McKiernan clearly did say that surge principles would not work in Afghanistan.

Palin threw out an old canard when she criticized Obama for voting for the 2005 energy bill and said, “that’s what gave those oil companies those big tax breaks.” It’s a false attack Sen. Hillary Clinton used against Obama in the primary, and McCain himself has hurled. It’s true that the bill gave some tax breaks to oil companies, but it also took away others. And according to the Congressional Research Service, the bill created a slight net increase in taxes for the oil industry.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 03, 2008 09:29AM
There's always misrepresentation of facts in these debates. I would be amazed if we ever had a debate that was free of any errors or half truths. I don't consider them gaffes, I consider them, for the most part, to be a deliberate part of the campaign rhetoric. It's one of the reasons that people make those tired old Lying Politician jokes.
[ap.google.com]



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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: October 03, 2008 09:38AM
Quote
Seacrest
Quote
PeterB
Oh, and another thing: Palin referring to her family as "diverse" -- ugh, yikes. A number of people are going to be very insulted by that.

By that I think she meant many in her family held diverging opinions on certain subjects, a "vast variety," if you will.

I think I took her at her word when she said she was "tolerant" of other lifestyles.

Both sides seem to agree on that particular wedge issue this year, FWIW, so I imagine it's a non-issue this year.

Yes, I realize that when she said "diverse", she was referring to opinions. The problem is, it was a very poor word choice-- that word has definite meanings to people of color, and they will interpret it differently than she meant it and resent her using it-- especially in context of her running against a team with an African American at its head.

As for her being "tolerant" -- I noticed a certain nastiness from her when she said she was not in favor of gay marriage, a nastiness that wasn't present in Biden.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: October 03, 2008 09:52AM
I think her comments about her "diverse family" were also in reference to one of her best friends that is gay.
It was addressed in one of her interviews with Katie Curic.

She (Palin) referenced that one of her best lifelong friends way gay and then something about
how she still loved her even though she didn't agreed with her "choice"



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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: swampy
Date: October 03, 2008 10:08AM
DDog... Contratulations, you were the first to post back all the Palin screwups that had already been mentioned in this thread. You get a gold star!

Peter B... diverse....it was a very poor word choice-- that word has definite meanings to people of color

Another word that the liberals have added to the verboten dictionary (along with articulate, clean and bright). Sorry, I'm not buying the "victim" status based on a word. Do you really believe that Palin's use of the word "diverse" was meant in any other way than that her family was made up of varying views, personalities, or foibles? Or do you think she was inferring that someone in her family was not a white Caucasian? I for one will not be intimidated into PC speak by anyone who takes offense from a perfectly acceptable word used in context correctly.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: October 03, 2008 10:16AM
Quote
swampy
DDog... Contratulations, you were the first to post back all the Palin screwups that had already been mentioned in this thread. You get a gold star!

Peter B... diverse....it was a very poor word choice-- that word has definite meanings to people of color

Another word that the liberals have added to the verboten dictionary (along with articulate, clean and bright). Sorry, I'm not buying the "victim" status based on a word. Do you really believe that Palin's use of the word "diverse" was meant in any other way than that her family was made up of varying views, personalities, or foibles? Or do you think she was inferring that someone in her family was not a white Caucasian? I for one will not be intimidated into PC speak by anyone who takes offense from a perfectly acceptable word used in context correctly.

I stand by my opinion that it was a poor word choice. She is about as white-bread as they come... I don't think she really knows or understands anything about true diversity. It has nothing to do with her being a "victim" -- it has to do with her overall issue of trying to pretend she's something she's not. She also referred to herself as being middle-class. She isn't-- she and Todd are at about the same economic level as Biden. The problem with her use of the word, and her overall presentation, was that it was a put-on -- a fakeness -- a pretense. She tried to co-opt the use of words that really don't apply to her, and I found that intellectually offensive... as if she thought we wouldn't be smart enough to detect her pretense.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: October 03, 2008 10:17AM
why was there no question about religion and state....? I know that the gay marriage question was a veiled attempt at such, but I really believe that there should be a very specific question about this (and, for the record, I'm not happy with either side on this issue).
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: October 03, 2008 10:18AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
why was there no question about religion and state....? I know that the gay marriage question was a veiled attempt at such, but I really believe that there should be a very specific question about this (and, for the record, I'm not happy with either side on this issue).

Actually, what I really liked was when the issue of the Constitution came up vis-a-vis Biden's comments on the role of the VP as defined by the Constitution. For the first time, in a long time, I heard a politician say that we needed to defend the Constitution. That made me happy.




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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 03, 2008 10:21AM
Quote
Grateful11
What's with Palin winking so much? Is she trying to turn-on all the sex
starved idiots that are lusting after her?


Well, hello there, sailor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2008 10:21AM by $tevie.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: DharmaDog
Date: October 03, 2008 11:15AM
Quote
swampy
DDog... Contratulations, you were the first to post back all the Palin screwups that had already been mentioned in this thread. You get a gold star!

You need to reread this thread if you believe any of those were previously mentioned.

The critiques were primarily of her Palinisms: you betchya, doggone it, nukular, etc.

But I'll still take the gold star.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: October 03, 2008 12:26PM
Palin did just fine for her base. They would never realize she didn't know the meaning of "achilles heel" because they probably don't. There were lots of places where she messed up that would never recognize. They just thought "she's folksy - just like me" and will still go vote for her.
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: swampy
Date: October 03, 2008 12:27PM
Peter B..I stand by my opinion that it was a poor word choice. She is about as white-bread as they come... I don't think she really knows or understands anything about true diversity. It has nothing to do with her being a "victim" -- it has to do with her overall issue of trying to pretend she's something she's not. She also referred to herself as being middle-class. She isn't-- she and Todd are at about the same economic level as Biden. The problem with her use of the word, and her overall presentation, was that it was a put-on -- a fakeness -- a pretense. She tried to co-opt the use of words that really don't apply to her, and I found that intellectually offensive... as if she thought we wouldn't be smart enough to detect her pretense.

I didn't mean to imply that Palin was a victim. My point was that the minorities use these words in order to play victim. That's why I used Biden's goofy "articulate, bright, clean" example.

A fakeness? Look, you can't have it both ways. She gets criticized by the left for being "Six Pack Sarah", small town, middle class and then you claim she's fake and pretentious. Trying to be something she's not. Which is it? You seem to be more offended by the fact that she is who she is and failed to meet your "elite" test.

True diversity... what is that? She was speaking about her family. I don't think you are in a position to judge what she thinks diversity is in her family. She may think diversity in her family is a sibling who is Methodist and an aunt that is Catholic. You don't know what diversity means to her. You seem to think that the word only applies in a cultural sense (racial perhaps?)



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: biden was great!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: October 03, 2008 12:51PM
Quote
swampy
I didn't mean to imply that Palin was a victim. My point was that the minorities use these words in order to play victim. That's why I used Biden's goofy "articulate, bright, clean" example.

I don't see how using the words "diverse" or "diversity" plays any sort of victim card. Biden IS goofy, and says lots of things. That's part of why I wasn't crazy about him as a VP pick.

Quote
swampy
A fakeness? Look, you can't have it both ways. She gets criticized by the left for being "Six Pack Sarah", small town, middle class and then you claim she's fake and pretentious. Trying to be something she's not. Which is it? You seem to be more offended by the fact that she is who she is and failed to meet your "elite" test.

I didn't get any good sense last night of who exactly Sarah Palin is. Sure, she may be "Six Pack Sarah", but then it shouldn't come off as pretentious, should it? Yet it did. I'm not offended by her being whoever it is that she is (whatever that is, since I'm not sure exactly), I'm offended by her claiming to something she clearly is not. I don't think it has anything to do with elitism -- it has to do with her being manipulative. When she mentions extra credit for elementary schoolers, refers to "Joe Sixpack" and "soccer moms", and makes a strange remark about Biden's wife, etc., she is clearly "playing" us. I didn't get that sense from her opponent.

Quote
swampy
True diversity... what is that? She was speaking about her family. I don't think you are in a position to judge what she thinks diversity is in her family. She may think diversity in her family is a sibling who is Methodist and an aunt that is Catholic. You don't know what diversity means to her. You seem to think that the word only applies in a cultural sense (racial perhaps?)

I mean it in a societal sense. It's another indicator of her relatively inexperienced, small town thinking that she thinks in small, parochial ways such as these.




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