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ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 21, 2008 07:03PM
first, I am not familiar with the US electoral system (I may be eligible for Citizenship in 2012).

In my home country you need an ID to vote. Even in a very small village where everyone know you, theoretically you still need an ID to vote. Sometimes people may vote without ID, but it's not legal.

I learned today (on NPR) that here in some states an ID is required only when you register to vote or when you vote for the first time. After that, you do not need to produce an ID when you vote (in some states).

I am quite surprised by this, if you need to show an ID first time you vote, then why not show the ID the next time you vote too? If you are in the electoral commission, and a guy shows up and says "I am Joe Plumber and I am here to vote, but I don't have to show ID, I did that 4 years ago", how do you make sure he indeed is Joe Plumber? Please explain.
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: rgG
Date: October 21, 2008 07:11PM
A picture ID is now required to vote in Georgia. You would not believe how many lawsuits there were challenging this new law. In fact, it may still be on appeal, but an ID will be required for the upcoming election.

I personally think you should have to show a photo ID. You have to show a photo ID for almost everything now, so something as important as voting would seem to need this as much as say using a credit card at the mall.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: October 21, 2008 07:25PM
It's RACIST to ask voters to produce an ID - don't you know that?!!!??
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: October 21, 2008 07:30PM
In some states that do not require an ID at the polls, they still require a signature and match it to a signature card kept for each voter.
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: October 21, 2008 07:33PM
According to the Brennan Center for Justice of the NYU School of Law, 11 percent of voting-age citizens do not have government-issued photo ID. Poor, minority, young and female citizens are less likely to have current ID. Many women do not have identification that reflects their current name.

So there are a lot of fights about showing photo ID. The type of voter fraud that voter ID could prevent--an impostor showing up at the polls and attempting to vote--happened four times in Ohio out of 9 million votes cast in 2002 and 2004. In Georgia, the secretary of state cannot remember that type of voter fraud ever happening during her decade as an election official.

The Brennan Center further reports:

"Nationwide, since October 2002, 86 individuals have been convicted of federal crimes relating to election fraud (including several offenses not remedied by ID requirements), while 196,139,871 ballots have been cast in federal general elections."

Source: [www.brennancenter.org]
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: kanesa
Date: October 21, 2008 07:48PM
In Wisconsin, we show ID when we register and do not have to show ID when we vote. When you put more impediments to voting, you have less of a democracy IMO. We also have same day registering and voting.
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: October 21, 2008 08:04PM
IDs are needed very infrequently in the US. I use mine mostly to prove my age at bars. The vast majority of people have them because they drive and otherwise might _not_ have them.

On one hand, it does seem reasonable to produce an ID to vote but when you consider people who never need one otherwise then it possibly becomes an undo burden. i think the fair solution to this is to make it easier to obtain a state (not necessarily drivers license) id.



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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: Black Landlord
Date: October 21, 2008 08:09PM
Quote
kanesa
In Wisconsin, we show ID when we register and do not have to show ID when we vote. When you put more impediments to voting, you have less of a democracy IMO. We also have same day registering and voting.

Same here (Chicago).



[www.papanicholas.com] coffee smiley
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: vicrock
Date: October 21, 2008 09:00PM
We vote by mail, and no ID is needed, except for a signature on the outer envelope - which is compared to the signature on file.
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: Wags
Date: October 21, 2008 09:03PM
Oregon's system,:

When I have mentioned our voting system to friends elsewhere, I have been met with an uncomprehending blank stare followed by a comment to the effect "You Oregonians sure seem to like to do things differently ... "

They are right; we do our voting differently because Oregonians have discovered that Vote by Mail is the most effective, efficient and fraud-free way to conduct an election.

At its core Vote by Mail works and is wildly popular because it returns control of the act of voting to the place it belongs: the voter. As a voter, you know when to expect your ballot in the mail, you decide when and how you want to mark your ballot and you decide when you want to turn it in (as long as it is in by 8 p.m. on Election Day).

Oregon's Vote by Mail system is simple and straightforward. Ballots are mailed 14 to 18 days before an election to the registered address of the voter; the voter has two weeks to return the ballot through the mail or by dropping it off at official drop-off sites. The voter must sign the outside of the envelope (the ballot is sealed in a separate envelope inside) and that signature is checked against the signature on file with the elections division.

The advantages of conducting elections entirely by mail are clear:

# Voter participation: It increases turnout -- 84 percent of registered Oregonians voted this year.

# Convenience: People can vote according to their schedule.

# Education: People have time to study issues and candidates before voting.

# Fraud protection: It has built-in safeguards that increase the integrity of the elections process.

# Built-in paper trail.

# Voter eligibility: Built-in time to resolve disputes.

# Actual results are released when polls close as opposed to unreliable "exit polls."

# Financial: It saves money.


Seattle PI

We can fix the election process, its not really rocket science.
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: Dakota
Date: October 21, 2008 09:33PM
Quote
space-time

I learned today (on NPR) that here in some states an ID is required only when you register to vote or when you vote for the first time. After that, you do not need to produce an ID when you vote (in some states).
.

Anyone can register to vote in PA. Fill out a one page form and mail it in. A brand new voter registration card arrives in the mail in 2 weeks.No questions asked. No ID, no proof of citizenship, nothing. Tourists can vote, illegals can vote. Heck anyone can vote. Why wait until 2012? You see evidence of this going on nationally in what ACORN is doing.
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: October 21, 2008 09:50PM
Having worked the local polls in at least a half-dozen elections, including a Presidential, I have never heard of anyone committing fraud in the polls (on election day).

However, the fraud is usually in place at that point, if there is any. The fraud occurs when you get someone to fill out a card falsifying their actual address. BUT, this requires real effort; you will be taken off the rolls where you were previously registered (and you must list a previous address at least in MA). Therefore, you will be taken off of one city's election rolls and added to another, so you cannot vote in two places. You can, as noted above, attempt to change your voting place in order to vote in a local election (or a state or national, but that would not have much change). Again, this would not really change the outcome in a Presidential election, unless you got thousands of people to change their state.
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: October 21, 2008 09:50PM
space, the sensitivity to ID requirements has a lot to do with the abuses heaped upon minorities (primarily those of a darker hue) in the early part of the 20th century. Poll Taxes (pay to vote if you're black), voting tests (quick ! What's the square root of 197.2 !) and other 'legal' maneuvers were used to deny the right to vote for years. After the Civil Rights Act, national laws were set in place forbidding such activities.

Elections in the US are run locally at the village and neighborhood level. Polling places are small, and a reasonable sized group of people vote there, all from the immediate neighborhood The idea before IDs became required was that the poll judges would probably know you on sight, since they lived there too.

We're also sensitive to the "you must show your papers" imperative that our main Enemy in the latter part of the 20th century (The Soviet Union) placed on their people. Nothing gets a law shot down faster than saying "Well, that's a lot like the Russians used to do..".
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: October 21, 2008 10:02PM
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: rgG
Date: October 21, 2008 10:18PM
In Georgia the do offer a free state ID to anyone that needs it.

[www.sos.georgia.gov]

If you do not have one of the six acceptable forms of photo ID, the State of Georgia offers a FREE Voter Identification Card. An identification card can be issued at any county registrar's office or Department of Driver Services Office free of charge.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: Black Landlord
Date: October 21, 2008 10:21PM
Anyone got a link to a site explaining this joke?
Quote
Seacrest



[www.papanicholas.com] coffee smiley
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: vision63
Date: October 21, 2008 10:48PM
[en.wikipedia.org])

Hey, you just cxxxkbxxxxxd seacrest!
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: mikeylikesit
Date: October 22, 2008 02:09AM
I've voted in every Presidential election since the LBJ/Goldwater debacle. I've voted in Mass, in Texas and in California and I've never had to produce an ID.

It's probably just a coincidence, but I've noticed that additional hurdles placed in the way of voters seem to originate in some sections of the country far more frequently than in others. old fogey smiley patriot smiley
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: rgG
Date: October 22, 2008 06:01AM
Quote
mikeylikesit
I've voted in every Presidential election since the LBJ/Goldwater debacle. I've voted in Mass, in Texas and in California and I've never had to produce an ID.

It's probably just a coincidence, but I've noticed that additional hurdles placed in the way of voters seem to originate in some sections of the country far more frequently than in others. old fogey smiley patriot smiley

States That Request Photo ID
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
Indiana
Louisiana
Michigan
South Dakota

States that Require ID (photo not required)
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Kentucky
Missouri
Montana
North Dakota
Ohio
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Virginia
Washington
In no state is a voter who cannot produce identification turned away from the polls—all states have some sort of recourse for voters without identification to cast a vote.

[www.ncsl.org]





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: mikeylikesit
Date: October 22, 2008 06:15AM
My point was that this is not a long standing tradition and that the overwhelming majority of states that have enacted these requirements in recent years -- 19 to 5 by your count -- have a rose colored tint.

Wonder why the rest of the Union hasn't felt that same urgency to protect the virtue of their voting systems?

edit: because Union, even if it can't be united, should be capitalized.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2008 06:18AM by mikeylikesit.
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: wurm
Date: October 22, 2008 08:40AM
It always sort of bothered me that I've never been asked for ID when I go to vote. Yeah, I may see a few people at the polls who know me, but usually they're not the workers there. The way they work it, I could not vote more than once, but I'm waiting for the day I go in there and they tell me "I'm sorry, it seems you've already voted." D'oh!

There has to be a better, more accurate and efficient way. Maybe voting by mail is the answer. And instead of having it on one particular day, have it be a week or month long process, but have a gag order on the results until after all polls close.
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: the_poochies
Date: October 22, 2008 09:39AM
Part of my job is to register voters, so I am very familiar with my state's laws.

In my state (NJ), registrants need to provide their state drivers license number or the last 4 digits of their SSN on their voter registration application. If someone tries to register multiple times (or if the information on the application doesn't match their driver's license data), any multiple/incorrect registrations will simply be discarded by the county board of elections, so I don't think the ACORN conspiracy theory will hold much water in my state.

First-time voters will need to produce proof of address at the polls, although most poll workers I deal with have an average age of 92 and are often as befuddled as the rookie voters. Proof of address can include something like a voter ID card, sample ballot, utility bill, driver's license, etc.

Regardless of whether you are a first-time voter or not, you will have to sign the voter book, and the poll worker is supposed to make sure your signature matches the one that is in their book.

Our voter registration deadline was Oct. 14, and I registered 135 new voters over 3 days. Any registered voter in NJ may apply for an absentee ballot by Oct. 28, and we only have voting on one day (no early voting).
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: October 22, 2008 09:55AM
Quote
wurm
It always sort of bothered me that I've never been asked for ID when I go to vote. Yeah, I may see a few people at the polls who know me, but usually they're not the workers there. The way they work it, I could not vote more than once, but I'm waiting for the day I go in there and they tell me "I'm sorry, it seems you've already voted." D'oh!

There has to be a better, more accurate and efficient way. Maybe voting by mail is the answer. And instead of having it on one particular day, have it be a week or month long process, but have a gag order on the results until after all polls close.

I have been voting in Mass. for over 30 years. In that time I have never had to show ID, nor have I ever run into mention of a case of someone finding out they already "voted".



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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: Dakota
Date: October 22, 2008 10:40AM
Quote
the_poochies
Part of my job is to register voters, so I am very familiar with my state's laws.

The question is not if they have a valid driver's license or a home address. At what point do they have to show they are eligible to vote in the first place? What isn't that the first question?
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: October 22, 2008 11:28AM
Quote
Dakota
The question is not if they have a valid driver's license or a home address. At what point do they have to show they are eligible to vote in the first place? What isn't that the first question?


No, that's not the question here.

If your name is on the rolls, you're allowed to vote. The question here is; how do you prove that you are that person?
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: the_poochies
Date: October 22, 2008 12:35PM
Quote
Dakota
Quote
the_poochies
Part of my job is to register voters, so I am very familiar with my state's laws.

The question is not if they have a valid driver's license or a home address. At what point do they have to show they are eligible to vote in the first place? What isn't that the first question?

Each county board of elections is supposed to check and see if that person is one of the following:

1. No longer residing in that county
2. Dead
3. Not voted in 2 consecutive Presidential elections and not responded to any address checks mailed by the county commissioner of registration
4. A convicted felon or a person on parole

If that individual matches any one of the above, then that person ain't voting.
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: Dakota
Date: October 22, 2008 07:05PM
Quote
the_poochies
Quote
Dakota
Quote
the_poochies
Part of my job is to register voters, so I am very familiar with my state's laws.

The question is not if they have a valid driver's license or a home address. At what point do they have to show they are eligible to vote in the first place? What isn't that the first question?

Each county board of elections is supposed to check and see if that person is one of the following:

1. No longer residing in that county
2. Dead
3. Not voted in 2 consecutive Presidential elections and not responded to any address checks mailed by the county commissioner of registration
4. A convicted felon or a person on parole

If that individual matches any one of the above, then that person ain't voting.

How can this be? The most important check, citizenship, isn't done? And believe me, there are no address checks here. You mail in your registration form and your card in couple of weeks. And how do they exactly check residency? What database do they have access to?
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: October 22, 2008 10:43PM
Quote
Dakota
...How can this be? The most important check, citizenship, isn't done? ...

It's RACIST to ask voters if they're citizens - don't you know that?!!!??...
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Re: ID NOT required to vote?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: October 23, 2008 06:28AM
Quote
SDGuy
It's RACIST to ask voters if they're citizens - don't you know that?!!!??...

I didn't know that United State of America was a race.
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