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Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: mick e
Date: December 05, 2008 10:53AM
mick e is starting to wonder about this situation a little bit.

Plaxico Buress is a NFL wide receiver. He's a black dude who is perceived by many to be somewhat spoiled and attitudy. The guy was carrying an unlicensed firearm in a nightclub.
Stupid.
Then he accidently shot himself in the leg.
Stupider.
Then he tried to cover it up and pretend it never happened.
Extreme Stupidness.

The consequences of his actions? Well, he has lost MILLIONS of dollars. His job. Perhaps a career. He's got Bloomberg raging and ready to throw him into prison for YEARS.

Ouch.

Conversely, lets ponder the curious case of Dick Cheney - famous white guy executive/shadow figure.

He went on a "hunting" expedition that was an essential equivalent to shooting chickens in a barnyard.
Stupid.
He got drunk and fired his shotgun without consideration to basic hunting safety guidelines, shooting a fellow hunter IN THE FACE.
Stupider.
Then he tried to cover it up and pretend it never happened.
Extreme Stupidness.

The consequences of his actions? Well, none really.




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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: kj
Date: December 05, 2008 11:29AM
I was a real fan of his when he played for the steelers, and followed him when he went to the giants. He's always been somewhat erratic, performance-wise, so I wonder if we have the whole story. He's maybe been causing a lot of trouble for a while. That said, it does seem they're being a bit more harsh on him. Pacman didn't shoot anyone, but dang, how many chances does he get? Same with so many others. I don't really think it's racially motivated though. kj.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: Greg the dogsitter
Date: December 05, 2008 11:51AM
"Plaxico Buress" sounds like a pharmaceutical manufacturer.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: MacGurl
Date: December 05, 2008 12:09PM
I don't think these either Chaney nor Buress getting a slap on the wrist would be right, but sadly, neither one of these incidents is that terribly rare either. These sort of things happen to rednecks, experienced hunters, and gangsta wannabes all of them time, but we don't usually hear much about it. Maybe a quick blurb on the news, a couple of pages back in the newspaper, or posted as a joke on Fark - yet another example of Darwinism at work - but that's it, and then we never hear about it again.

That being said;
Buress was an idiot - why do men who have been given such a great opportunity with their lives feel the need to screw it up being so stupid?

Chaney is a negligent fool, who was very lucky he didn't kill that poor guy.


Kathy



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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: the_poochies
Date: December 05, 2008 12:17PM
Last weekend, the Giants looked like they didn't miss Plax one bit.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: Don Kiyoti
Date: December 05, 2008 12:18PM
Bloomberg is pissed at the NY Giants and the NFL more than Burress, for the slimy way they handled the situation.

[www.nytimes.com]

I don't see race as a factor in this one. Definitely a backlash against spoiled NFL property atheletes.

I do agree about Cheney though. Had "Joe the Plumber" shot his buddy in the face by accident, there would be prosecution.





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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: mattkime
Date: December 05, 2008 12:22PM
>>why do men who have been given such a great opportunity with their lives feel the need to screw it up being so stupid?

because they're stupid?



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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: December 05, 2008 12:25PM
I don't think Burress should have been packing. However, I do not envy athletes like him--drunks are always trying to pick fights with elite athletes to prove how tough they are. I certainly don't blame athletes for traveling in packs or taking along a group of large and sinister-looking friends.

There was an incident a few years ago at a Baltimore nightclub that put a couple of Ravens, and several of their antagonists, in the hospital. It probably ended Michael McCrary's career, and that was too bad--he is a good guy.

Whatever happened that put Ray Lewis in trial for murder, it started with drunks trying to pick fights with him and his group. I do not blame the cops (in most cases) when they make allowances for athletes and other famous people--not in Lewis' case, of course, but generally, I think when one of these people hauls off and slugs someone it's well deserved.

In Cheney's case, Molly Ivins theorized that Cheney wanted a rarer trophy than quail, and so he winged the only liberal Republican in Texas.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: mick e
Date: December 05, 2008 12:45PM
Good points Gutie.

In fact, Plax's teammate had just been held up at gunpoint previously - and the incident happened on the approximate one-year anniversary of Sean Taylor's death.

mick e has a hard time blaming him for wanting to protect himself. That said, there is a right way to go about things and a wrong way.

The bottom line, the only person hurt in Plax's accident was himself - and he hurt himself plenty. Prison is probably not necessary.

It's not like he accidently shot someone else in the face or anything.




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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: (vikm)
Date: December 05, 2008 12:48PM
Both were accidental apparently. The difference being that Plax was doing something illegal at the time. I don't feel sorry for the idiot at all. There is absolutely no excuse for him to have that gun on him. he just as easily could have discharged the weapon and accidentally shot any number of people present.

I've no special place for Dick, either. Shame he and Plaxico don't hunt together.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: December 05, 2008 01:02PM
I sold all my shares in PlaxiCo last year, so I couldn't give a @#$%&.





I am not Ryan Seacrest, and I do not approve this message.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: $tevie
Date: December 05, 2008 01:11PM
I hadn't really thought about it like this, mick e. Good points to ponder.



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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: $tevie
Date: December 05, 2008 01:44PM
I just Googled this topic and it is more complicated than I had any idea of. I did not know his team mate Steve Smith was the victim of an armed holdup in his own driveway on November 25. My reaction would not be to acquire an illegal weapon, but I no longer find it crazy stupid, that's for sure:

Quote

But the Burress shooting is perhaps the result of a string of violent attacks on NFL players.

January 2007: Denver Broncos defensive back Darrent Williams is shot and killed after leaving a nightclub. Broncos receiver Javon Walker is riding in the limo.

September 2007: Houston Texans defensive back Dunta Robinson is the victim of a home invasion. Robinson says he and his family were forced to lie down at gunpoint and that the gunman told him, "You're a good player, so I'm not going to kill you."

November 2007: Sean Taylor of the Washington Redskins is shot and killed in his home.

June 2008: Walker, now with the Oakland Raiders, is robbed, beaten and found unconscious after leaving a Las Vegas nightclub.

September 2008: Jacksonville Jaguars lineman Richard Collier is shot 14 times after leaving a nightclub. He is left partially paralyzed and has his left leg amputated below the knee.

ESPN the Magazine chronicled these incidents in a story in which more than one player is quoted as saying that a gun makes him feel safe.

The article clearly documents a siege mentality among NFL players. Although it never compares NFL crime rates with overall crime rates or addresses whether the two high-profile murders have skewed players' perceptions, in a way that doesn't matter. The salient point is that players whose job it is to listen to authority figures are told by team-hired security experts that they can become victims. So they begin to feel victimized and, voila, Burress tucks a gun in his pants, fiddles with the safety — and jeopardizes his health, his livelihood and his team's chances of success.

[www.npr.org]



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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: (vikm)
Date: December 05, 2008 01:52PM
I'd have no problem with him carrying a weapon if it was being done so legally. I don't know the local laws there but if it's allowable there, why not apply for a carry permit? This is one of the types that these special permits are provided for. Part of the reason for the regulation and requirement for permits is that someone that is licensed is also more likely to have training that would lessen the chance of this exact sort of incident happening. He's still a fool. I'm not 100% sold on him doing time if he's not had any run ins before. That does seem excessive given the circumstances but we're not even talking about this if it wasn't such a serious issue and he wasn't knowingly doing something he wasn't legally permitted to do.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: billb
Date: December 05, 2008 01:56PM
Next time a hunter shoots a hunting companion in the face in a nightclub with an illegal procured weapon he should get the exact same Bloomberg rage.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: mick e
Date: December 05, 2008 02:11PM
Again. It was illegal for Plax to carry a gun in this situation, but he shot himself, no one else. He did not brandish it to attack anyone or threaten anyone. He just had it.

Cheney was hunting, legally. He shot SOMEONE ELSE, and ALMOST KILLED HIM. mick e considers this to be something of an equalizer to Buress' illegal gun charge, but that's just an opinion. It is arguable that Cheney was MORE reckless with his weapon given the circumstances.

Regardless, they BOTH attempted to sweep these respective incidents under the rug.

Buress will be charged for doing so, Cheney never was.

Buress lost his job. Cheney didn't.

Buress was penalized MILLIONS. Cheney not a dime.




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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: (vikm)
Date: December 05, 2008 02:29PM
I got ya mick e. See what you're saying. I just don't happen to agree with the two incidents being "equal". If one is truly accidental (Cheney) with really no signs of negligence and the other is also an accident and was only possible due to the illegal nature of their actions, I just can't see them as equal. I'd even go so far as to say that someone that was willing to illegally carry a firearm isn't too many steps from waving it as a show of power or strength thinking it will end a potential altercation with someone that may have gotten all puffy chested. It's happened all too often before.

Just a difference of opinion. I still don't like Dick, though and actually hate coming off like I'm defending him.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 05, 2008 03:13PM
They're scared. Also NBA players have suffered holdups and home invasions. Lamar Odom was mugged in Queens right after burying his infant son by somebody he once knew. THe hospital is more in trouble than Plaxico for not reporting it. Why does Bloomberg care? He's the one that engineered himself past term limits?
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: $tevie
Date: December 05, 2008 03:17PM
Obviously something is broken, but I don't think making an example of Buress is going to fix it. Or even have any impact.



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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: Spock
Date: December 05, 2008 03:29PM
The dumb @#$%& should go to jail but he won't. He'll get a pass, just like that drunken NBA thug Jayson Williams who shot and killed his limo driver.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: Don Kiyoti
Date: December 05, 2008 05:18PM
The whole thing reminds me a little of The Bonfire of the Vanities.

I don't know anything about Plaxico Burress; I don't watch football. So I don't know if he's a decent guy or a thug. I'm not going to assume he had a gun on him to protect himself, nor will I assume he was just trying to be cool. I can understand that some pro athletes are the target of unwanted attention. But Burress could have just as easily wounded or killed someone else in the club. Aren't bodyguards supposed to provide that kind of protection?

I'd like to know if the law in NY would have allowed him to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and if it did, why he didn't have such a permit. I would guess the club had a rule against bringing guns inside but I don't know that either. Is it a misdemeanor in NY or a felony? Whatever it is, he should get the penalty for that. If he loses his job, tough.

I'm more concerned about the way everyone else involved handled the incident. Why did the hospital fail to notify the police about a gunshot wound? They are required to do that. Heads should roll there. And the weasels from the Giants and the NFL calling the cops to see if they'd found out about it is really contemptible. The NFL & Giants knew all about it but sure as hell weren't planning on telling the cops (let's see if we can get our asset off the hook first!).





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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: swampy
Date: December 05, 2008 07:16PM
It's been my observation.....

Thugs like Plaxico Burress tend to bring these things on themselves. So many star athletes come from disadvantage homes. Often with a dedicated single mother. For whatever reason they never learn to disassociate themselves from the hangers on. They have a "my posse' attitude that always seems to get them in trouble. You see it from early in their carreer. They go off to college and hang with the wrong people.

Their talent propels them into the pros with lots of money and lots of temptations that most are ill equipped to handle. Then never seem to get it that bad things happen at 2:30 AM around drunk people in the wrong part of town.

Thank goodnes for Derrick Brooks, Warrick Dunn, Ronde and Tiki Barber, Michael Alstot, John Lynch (can you tell I'm a Bucks fan?) and many other great NFL stars who give their time and talent helping others and setting wonderful role models for young boys.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: Panopticon
Date: December 05, 2008 07:57PM
yep, Plaxico Burress did a stupid thing.

...but Cheney is just plain dangerous. Think Stalin.

Ray Lewis {and the murder victims' families} were victims of a politically motivated Fulton County DA, Paul L. Howard. Very similar to Mr. Nifong in NC {Duke 'rape case'}. Funny thing happened, after ALL the defendants were found NOT to have participated in the homicides, Mr. Howard did not press for the police to investigate other known suspects!
As with Nifong, Mr. Howard should not be allowed to practice law either. {Ray also got some really bad legal advice, IMHO.}






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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: DevoBill
Date: December 05, 2008 10:26PM
Looks like a good test case for 2nd amd in NY city.




I want ambiguity, or possibly something else.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: mikeylikesit
Date: December 06, 2008 02:26AM
I'm sortta' with Swampy on this. Why are professional athletes partying at 2-3AM during the season. If this had been an off season incident I might feel different but the idea that they take their professionalism so lightly is a problem.

Many of these are pampered, over-indulged kids who never had to accept responsibility for anything simply because of their athleticism. They're pushed through the college system in a bubble and then dumped on the world never having learned anything more complex than a double tight end halfback option.

They have work weeks that total less than six months, why do they need to party during that time?
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: swampy
Date: December 06, 2008 12:26PM
Florida is known for producing great football players. I've watched many of them play high school, college and pro ball. So many of them come from low income and disadvantaged backgrounds. No doubt they are prime high school athletes who were often a "big fish in a little pond", but their skills alone advanced them to college then, for the few, on to the professional level.

I'm a huge Florida State fan and, as most of you know, our football program has fallen off its dynasty pedestal. But recruiting talent doesn't always mean character comes with it. FSU is not alone in off field problems. You read about 'incidents' from all over the country.

I lay a large portion of the blame directly at the feet of the NCAA. About 20 years ago, the NCAA did away with athletic dorms, training tables or dining halls and many of the control mechanisms that were in place to supervise players. They felt the student athlete should have the "full life experience" (whatever that means), and insisted they move out into off campus facilities, cook for themselves etc. It seemed to change the whole 'team' dynamic.

The very first thing that cropped up were the agent scandals (remember Footlocker and Tank Black?). Under the former system, agents couldn't just roam the dorm halls, there were peer pressure checks and balances, assistant coaches also keping an eye on things. There was also a loss of team leadership where the juniors and seniors had more contact with the younger kids to mentor them and foster comradeship and togetherness. These things were so important in helping to mold the character of not only the team, but the individual student athlete. Especially those who came from dysfunctional home backgrounds. It gave them some sense of 'family'.

The "big fish in a little pond" incoming freshmen no longer have that nurturing transition. Not only do they have the challenge of leaving home and adjusting to college life and academics, they now find themselves "little fish in a big pond" having to compete for starting positions. Some just can't find acceptable ways to deal with all that. Those with 'marginal character' seek ways to draw attention to themselves both on and off the field. They don't accept coaching very well and many tend to underachieve. It just snowballs until you get players like Plexico Burress, Terrel Owens, Michael Vick etc. They may still may be great athletes, but they are social disasters and train wrecks waiting to happen.

As both an alumni and Seminole Booster, I've heard many of these thoughts from great coaches and players such as Mickey Andrews, Chuck Amato, Bobby Bowden, Odell Haggins, Mark Richt, and Lawrence Dawsey. All of them, over the years have been guest speakers at our booster club functions. All have expressed the desire to help kids grow, not only in athletic prowess, but in character as men. And all have expressed a sense of personal failure when, as they say, "I lose one."



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 06, 2008 02:59PM
Those are good thoughts swampy. But then it could be that nobody really cares about them until they come to their University.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: swampy
Date: December 06, 2008 03:20PM
You might be right vision63.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: mikeylikesit
Date: December 07, 2008 12:02AM
Oh God! I may have to kill myself. I was pressed into drafting a 13-15 year old team to play this season. I didn't want to coach again but would help build a team for the real coach.

They insisted I name the team. I chose Seminoles. Will someone please end this for me?
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: vision63
Date: December 07, 2008 12:15AM
'Noles!
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: DevoBill
Date: December 07, 2008 11:54AM
Was the SNL skit funny or what?




I want ambiguity, or possibly something else.
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Re: Plaxico Buress VS.
Posted by: swampy
Date: December 07, 2008 01:58PM
Yeeeeah, Mikey!! Go Noles. Hope your team does well. :-)



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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