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What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: NeverMind
Date: February 20, 2009 10:33PM
A president that can speak in full sentences that make sense.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 21, 2009 01:53AM
Only if he has a populace that listens in complete sentences, Fox and others are dedicated to seeing that doesn't happen.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: samintx
Date: February 21, 2009 07:38AM
Where has your radio and TV been all these years? I have heard complete sentences out of all our presidents. This one, however, has such a boring delivery I must confess I fall asleep.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: swampy
Date: February 21, 2009 08:28AM
If you can get past all the stammering - uh, uh, uh.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: NeverMind
Date: February 21, 2009 08:33AM
Quote
samintx
Where has your radio and TV been all these years? I have heard complete sentences out of all our presidents. This one, however, has such a boring delivery I must confess I fall asleep.

Bush didn't always speak poorly, but he sometimes made a gigantic ass of himself, it was the first time I've ever seen that so many times in a president.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: NeverMind
Date: February 21, 2009 08:35AM
Quote
swampy
If you can get past all the stammering - uh, uh, uh.

Works for me. At least he doesn't make a fool of himself.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dakota
Date: February 21, 2009 09:30AM
Quote
NeverMind
A president that can speak in full sentences that make sense.

Let's just hope this won't be his only legacy. The fact that you are still bringing this up is not a good sign.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: February 21, 2009 09:40AM
I don't take it for stammering, but he does pause a bit. I always thought if was from his teaching
days and I should be taking notes.

I do appreciate that he at least thinks about what he is saying when speaking extemporaneously,
rather than babbling. Also nice not to have to wait a couple days to have the press secretary come out
and explain to uswhat he "really" meant to say.

The loss of Bush is killing late night TV (Letterman has gone back to doing Clinton jokes)



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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: February 21, 2009 10:37AM
Yes, but will his stimulus package help me put food on my family?
Will I, as an OBGYN, still be allowed to practice my love with patients?
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: NeverMind
Date: February 21, 2009 10:42AM
Quote
Dakota
Quote
NeverMind
The fact that you are still bringing this up is not a good sign.

Really? Tell me when I have mentioned this before? Stop your lies.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Black
Date: February 21, 2009 10:51AM
Quote
lafinfil
I don't take it for stammering, but he does pause a bit. I always thought if was from his teaching
days and I should be taking notes.

I do appreciate that he at least thinks about what he is saying when speaking extemporaneously,
rather than babbling. Also nice not to have to wait a couple days to have the press secretary come out
and explain to uswhat he "really" meant to say.

The loss of Bush is killing late night TV (Letterman has gone back to doing Clinton jokes)

I think the pauses/stammers/whatever are an affected device aimed at seeming more fallable/accessible/approachable/likeable. Probably learned at an early age . . . It's pretty clear that he's got a keen ability to plan out his words very exactly before speaking.

I think the crux of the 'refreshing' difference is that Obama makes an effort to be understood, tacitly giving validation to the idea that people have a right, or at least a valid expectation, to understand what the president is thinking and why he makes the decisions that he does.
Bush almost always became visibly angry when asked to explain anything.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2009 10:54AM by Black.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: NeverMind
Date: February 21, 2009 10:58AM
Quote
Black
Bush almost always became visibly angry when asked to explain anything.

During the last few years Bush spoke more in a tone that he was trying to be liked. He was trying to win approval on his smile. He was avoiding the issues. When that didn't work the pressure came on to answer questions, and I agree, he started to get upset that he had to explain anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2009 11:03AM by NeverMind.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Black
Date: February 21, 2009 11:03AM
Quote
NeverMind
During the last few years Bush spoke more in a tone that he was trying to be liked. He was trying to win approval on his smile.

Oh, the memories . . .




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 21, 2009 02:54PM
Like Black said, Bush seemed like he was saying, "Dontcha see?"
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 21, 2009 03:10PM
Bush had to have been drunk or medicated during some of those press conferences.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dakota
Date: February 21, 2009 04:38PM
Bush is Bush, Obama is Obama. Everyone has a different speaking style. Can you change the way you talk? Bush at times was very quick on his feet but at other times would stumble. Obama is at his best when he reads from a teleprompter. Several times during the campaign there were occasions when his speeches looked like a stand up. Really liked that. Reminded me of Jerry Seinfeld. The one I remember best was when he chastised Hilary for her support of guns during the PA primary, calling her Annie Oakely.

Wait... I found it.


[www.youtube.com]

0:50 is the best part. He would be a great stand up had he lost the election.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 21, 2009 04:58PM
I have seen a little of Obama's wit. Clinton wasn't very witty, in my opinion.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: zeppo2
Date: February 21, 2009 05:39PM
No politics here--just an observation on rhetorical styles. I think calling Bush's speaking method a "style" runs the risk of validating it as acceptable. Politics aside, for most of his speeches he was damn near incoherent. If you Tivo'd the speeches and played them back, the words just didn't fit together in a sensible way. When he was really motivated and seemed to have practiced an important speech he could be an effective communicator, but too often he seemed lackadaisical or at least unwilling to work on a coherent delivery. He often kept the ideas for a given speech to a very narrow topic, though, so the listener usually got the gist of the speech even if the details were lost is a syntactic haze. On the other hand, I think I'll get tired of Obama's pauses pretty quickly.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: kap
Date: February 21, 2009 10:15PM
American Sign Language is the solution!

big grin smiley



SoCal for now.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 22, 2009 10:12AM
Bush lied in complete sentences, then people died. That about sums him up completely. Otherwise, as a fella, I actually like him. I enjoyed his imperfections and lack of polish. Washington has too many slick talkers.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: zeppo2
Date: February 22, 2009 02:13PM
vison63,
An awful lot of those Bush sentences were not complete sentences. I don't care as much about slick talking as offering a role model for our linguistically and grammatically challenged youth.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 22, 2009 02:29PM
"I enjoyed his imperfections and lack of polish."

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 22, 2009 03:59PM
Well. Being oratorically fluent isn't part of the job description. Kids need to have real role models. Not people they don't even know.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: February 23, 2009 07:15AM
I worried more about the stumbling and clumsy image he presented to the rest of the world. I don't cringe when Obama speaks.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: NeverMind
Date: February 23, 2009 07:35AM
Quote
Dakota


[www.youtube.com]

0:50 is the best part. He would be a great stand up had he lost the election.

Are you serious?

You are comparing that video to this?:

[www.youtube.com]


"is our children learning"
"fool me once....."

<cringe>



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2009 07:35AM by NeverMind.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dakota
Date: February 23, 2009 11:01AM
Quote
Gutenberg
I worried more about the stumbling and clumsy image he presented to the rest of the world. I don't cringe when Obama speaks.

Ah, that why-don't they-love-us- anymore syndrome.

Well, I sure haven't seen an outburst of love and sympathy around the world for the US since November. Dutch troops landed in Afghanistan yet?
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: $tevie
Date: February 23, 2009 12:02PM
Quote
Seacrest
Yes, but will his stimulus package help me put food on my family?
Will I, as an OBGYN, still be allowed to practice my love with patients?
smileys with beer



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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: February 23, 2009 12:23PM
Quote
Gutenberg
I worried more about the stumbling and clumsy image he presented to the rest of the world.

This pic during last summers olympics showed the world just what kind of leader we had. Yeesh, talk about making you cringe! What an embarrassment!

Now someone tell me he wasn't drunk on his ass. And you Repugnant-Cons voted for this clown?!?

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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 23, 2009 03:22PM
Does anyone have a picture of people helping Bush up from his seat at the Olympics, around the same time as Rick-O's picture?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2009 03:23PM by Dennis S.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: February 23, 2009 03:37PM
This one? Same day, I believe.





Mr. Lahey: A lot of people, don’t know how to drink. They drink against the grain of the liquor. And when you drink against the grain of the liquor? You lose.

Randy: What the @#$%& are you talking about?
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: $tevie
Date: February 23, 2009 05:35PM




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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: zeppo2
Date: February 23, 2009 06:50PM
"Well. Being oratorically fluent isn't part of the job description. Kids need to have real role models. Not people they don't even know."

I disagree, particularly when it comes to linguistic role models. The presidential job description sure as hell ought to include the ability to communicate clearly, or at least not so poorly that it becomes a national embarrassment. Too often our children's linguistic role models, the people they know, don't provide something they need to aspire towards.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 23, 2009 07:34PM
Quote
zeppo2
"Well. Being oratorically fluent isn't part of the job description. Kids need to have real role models. Not people they don't even know."

I disagree, particularly when it comes to linguistic role models. The presidential job description sure as hell ought to include the ability to communicate clearly, or at least not so poorly that it becomes a national embarrassment. Too often our children's linguistic role models, the people they know, don't provide something they need to aspire towards.

Well it "doesn't" include it. A person should be judged based on the content of their character, not how spectacular they dress, how floridly they speak, or how well they "impress." Actions and deeds show what's in your heart. His lacking oratorical capacity in no way was an impediment to him being a better president than he was. His "character" was his flaw.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 23, 2009 09:11PM
Look at it in context. It all comes from his character:

bad character>alcoholic/coke-head>inarticulate
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 24, 2009 02:21AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
zeppo2
"Well. Being oratorically fluent isn't part of the job description. Kids need to have real role models. Not people they don't even know."

I disagree, particularly when it comes to linguistic role models. The presidential job description sure as hell ought to include the ability to communicate clearly, or at least not so poorly that it becomes a national embarrassment. Too often our children's linguistic role models, the people they know, don't provide something they need to aspire towards.

Well it "doesn't" include it. A person should be judged based on the content of their character, not how spectacular they dress, how floridly they speak, or how well they "impress." Actions and deeds show what's in your heart. His lacking oratorical capacity in no way was an impediment to him being a better president than he was. His "character" was his flaw.

I both agree and disagree with this assessment. While people shold be judged on the basis of their character, the POTUS isn't just another person. He heads an incredibly complex government, one that Jimmy Carter proved doesn't lend itself to micromanagement. Since he can't realistically manage the government himself he has to set the tone and lead by example.

Mr. Bush failed on all these fronts. Mr. Obama may as well but a least he comes equipped for the job.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: swampy
Date: February 24, 2009 07:23AM
I seem to remember discussing character here in this forum last summer. Not one of you liberals seemed to care about it then now it becomes important.

I even asked who your heroes were and no one gave me a serious answer.

Flip - Flop.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: February 24, 2009 07:49AM
Quote
swampy
I seem to remember discussing character here in this forum last summer. Not one of you liberals seemed to care about it then now it becomes important.

I even asked who your heroes were and no one gave me a serious answer.

Flip - Flop.

Hmm. An underhanded and hostile person asks you to name your heroes, information that you are pretty darned sure the underhanded and hostile person will use to ridicule you and your beliefs. So you don't give the information over. Makes sense to me.

We care deeply about character. We just don't take arguments about birth certificates, washed-up domestic "terrorists" and half-baked religious rancor seriously.

Peace, love and Hussein, Swamp Thing.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: $tevie
Date: February 24, 2009 08:50AM
Character, and the ability to speak without sounding like an idiot, and being drunk are three entirely different topics.



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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 24, 2009 09:31AM
Quote
swampy
I seem to remember discussing character here in this forum last summer. Not one of you liberals seemed to care about it then now it becomes important.

I even asked who your heroes were and no one gave me a serious answer.

Flip - Flop.

What does this even have to do with he topic. I think it comes under the topic of more of swampy's @#$%&-slinging.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: swampy
Date: February 24, 2009 09:32AM
Quote
swampy
I think the American people have a right to know about Ayres and make up their own mind. Put it all out there. All of Obama's questionable associates and creepy "friends" or philosophies. Franklin Marshall Davis, Kahalid Abdulla Tariq al-Mansour, Mike Kruglik (who taught Obama all about Saul Alinsky's tactics), Madeline Talbot, ACORN, Rev Wright, Willaim Ayres, Peter Flanigan, Rezko, Bernadine Dohrn, Abongo "Roy" Obama (brother and militant Muslim), FARC, Ali Abunimah, Franklin Raines, James Johnson, Annenberg Challenge, Woods Foundation, and who knows who or what else. Just put it all out there and let the American people judge for themselves.

Obama's favourite book as a teenager was Malcolm X's autobiography. (Dreams of My Father). Okay, we all know Malcom X's radical Muslim background. We all, to some degree, explored radical philosophies as young adults. I did, but it was a passing phase. In Obama's case, given the list of names/entities above, I'm not so sure that Obama ever outgrew it. I think the MSM has not given us the tools to explore the influences on Obama's life. His friends and associates that molded his character.

I look at that list of names and entities and cringe. There's not one that, based on the research I've done, that I can relate to. Not one with whom I can identify. Not one that I would consider a 'friend'. Not one that I would look to for counsel or advise. Not one that has made any selfless contribution to American Society.

These are Obama's 'heroes'. Radicals, Marxists, Socialists, activists, crooks, consumate politicians, world viewers, bomb throwers. To investigate these connections is hardly "Swift Boating". My heroes tend to be scientists, artists, musicians, entrepreneurs, great athletes, good teachers, firemen and police, doctors and nurses, inventors, Mother Theresa, the Dog Whisperer.

Who are your heroes?

[forums.macresource.com]

You guys couldn't even agree with ONE of my heroes. I guess you don't have any or you are too embarassed to mention them.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 24, 2009 09:36AM
Gee, I wonder why no one answered that mess of a post.

"My heroes tend to be scientists, artists, musicians, entrepreneurs, great athletes, good teachers, firemen and police, doctors and nurses, inventors, Mother Theresa, the Dog Whisperer."

OK, I agree with that list, except for the Dog Whisperer.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: kanesa
Date: February 24, 2009 09:39AM
The only two you named were Mother Theresa and the Dog Whisperer. Really going all out there and exposing yourself.

Gee, thanks for sharing swampy.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: kanesa
Date: February 24, 2009 09:48AM
Get out the Bingo card

swampy mentioned Ayres and Raines
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: swampy
Date: February 24, 2009 10:43AM
Quote
kanesa
Get out the Bingo card

swampy mentioned Ayres and Raines

Yeah, get out the bingo card. Keep it handy.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 24, 2009 11:36AM
Quote
RgrF
Quote
vision63
Quote
zeppo2
"Well. Being oratorically fluent isn't part of the job description. Kids need to have real role models. Not people they don't even know."

I disagree, particularly when it comes to linguistic role models. The presidential job description sure as hell ought to include the ability to communicate clearly, or at least not so poorly that it becomes a national embarrassment. Too often our children's linguistic role models, the people they know, don't provide something they need to aspire towards.

Well it "doesn't" include it. A person should be judged based on the content of their character, not how spectacular they dress, how floridly they speak, or how well they "impress." Actions and deeds show what's in your heart. His lacking oratorical capacity in no way was an impediment to him being a better president than he was. His "character" was his flaw.

I both agree and disagree with this assessment. While people shold be judged on the basis of their character, the POTUS isn't just another person. He heads an incredibly complex government, one that Jimmy Carter proved doesn't lend itself to micromanagement. Since he can't realistically manage the government himself he has to set the tone and lead by example.

Mr. Bush failed on all these fronts. Mr. Obama may as well but a least he comes equipped for the job.

Well that's true. But if Bush had at least held to being the compassionate conservative that he initially claimed then his faux paux's would just be humorous asides similar to Ford's clumsiness.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: swampy
Date: February 24, 2009 12:17PM
Vision..."I both agree and disagree with this assessment. While people shold be judged on the basis of their character, the POTUS isn't just another person. He heads an incredibly complex government, one that Jimmy Carter proved doesn't lend itself to micromanagement. Since he can't realistically manage the government himself he has to set the tone and lead by example.

Mr. Bush failed on all these fronts. Mr. Obama may as well but a least he comes equipped for the job."

Obama isn't micro managing? And what management experience did he bring to the job? Oh, yeah, he voted Present, he organized community meetings and he ran for office a couple times. He's in way over his head. But I'll give you a couple months to figure that out for yourself.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 24, 2009 12:40PM
"And what management experience did he bring to the job?"

Yeah, we should have elected Ms. Management Experience herself, Sarah Palin. What management experience did Kennedy have? What about Truman?
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: swampy
Date: February 24, 2009 01:20PM
Sarah Palin has about as much experience as Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter or any other contenders who served as a governor. Truman, GHW Bush, Nixon, Johnson were all VPs, Eisenhower was Command of the Allied Forces in Europe. JFK served in both the House and Senate for over 10 years total.

Wonder Boy did what? Oh yeah, he was a community orgaizer and ran a couple campaigns. All his predecessors had _real_ credentials and experience.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 24, 2009 01:31PM
You are fool. How about Blagojavich for President? He has had executive experience.

"JFK served in both the House and Senate for over 10 years total."

Not executive experience.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Silencio
Date: February 24, 2009 02:03PM
"Sarah Palin has about as much experience as Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter or any other contenders who served as a governor."

Please. Those other guys ran much, much bigger states in terms of population and annual budgets. On that count the mayor of Charlotte, NC is probably more qualified to be President than Sarah Palin is.
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