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Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: SteveJobs
Date: March 23, 2006 11:34AM
[www.pulse24.com]

Go to Iraq to protest the war
Get kidnapped by Iraqis.
Get saved by those whom you were protesting.
Don't thank them.



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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: mick e
Date: March 23, 2006 11:37AM
What would Rachel Corrie say?





Unpaid Social Liaison
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 23, 2006 12:46PM
Before the illegal invasion and occupation kidnapping was rare. Now it's common place and the population lives in fear. Before we destroyed civil order NGO's weren't having their workers killed and kidnapped. When we invaded Saddam opened the prisons and let the criminals out, for whatever reason. Our priority has always been safeguarding the oil, not the people. Under the Geneva convention an occupying power has the obligation to maintain civil order, but we decided Geneva was "quaint" and no longer applied. We didn't have the troops to both guard the oil and the people, so it's clear what our priorities were. Gen. Shinseki told Bush it would take 300,000 or MORE troops to occupy Iraq, so he got fired.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: x-uri
Date: March 23, 2006 12:57PM
Care to elaborate Rowdy?

Are you saying that the folks in the CPT are hypocrites for accepting rescue from the occupation that they oppose?

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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Guitarman
Date: March 23, 2006 02:14PM
You know, i'm on Rowdy's side on this one. These people can't seem to make up their minds. If they love the insurgents so much then they shouldn't even have needed to be kidnapped, they should have volunteered to be beheaded.



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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 23, 2006 02:19PM
They, like Rachel, were against all violence, and trying to find peaceful solutions. That's what the majority of the Iraqis want.

"We either die by the Americans, the insurgents in the name of jihad, the security companies, which kill you and leave you laying in the street, the Iraqi police or...the death squads. Three years after the American invasion of Iraq, I have only one wish. I do not want democracy, food, electricity and water. I just do not want to die."
- Laith Muhammad, an Iraqi student.


"The toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime was worth everything. I have never felt as free to speak any day in my life as today. If George Bush did anything good, it was toppling Saddam Hussein. I am not pessimistic. But I'm upset, because the war and the occupation, which could have led to a new situation in Iraq, were squandered by the stupid mistakes committed by the American administration and military and the U.S. representatives in Iraq."
- Fakhri Fikry Kareem, owner and publisher of the daily Iraqi newspaper Meda.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: BigGuynRusty
Date: March 23, 2006 02:40PM
Refurbvirgin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before the illegal invasion and occupation
> kidnapping was rare.

That kinda reads like.:
"Before swimming in the ocean, shark bites were rare."

BGnR

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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Greg the dogsitter
Date: March 23, 2006 02:52PM
Why is it that every topic turns into a discussion about whether it was right to invade Iraq?

I think the FPR side of MacResource might be better off if posts like this were treated in terms of the micro-issue (gratitude and conscience), rather than the macro-issue (the war).

I'd like to see a breadth of topics, and more nuance.

Thanks for reading.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: March 23, 2006 03:15PM
Greg the dogsitter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is it that every topic turns into a discussion
> about whether it was right to invade Iraq?
>

Wrong question.
Why is it that LOKI turns every discussion of anything into yet another screed about whatever bug is up his butt that day*?



*Or whatever nonsensical BS he scraped off some wacko, left-wing blog -- which, as it happens, most likely was pulled out of the blogger's butt.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Greg the dogsitter
Date: March 23, 2006 03:33PM
I thought x-uri was going in the right direction...
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: March 23, 2006 03:44PM
For one thing, the OP's thesis seems to rest on the dictum "You're either with the 'terrorists' or you're with 'us.'"
Well I personally reject that bromide and proudly proclaim, "I'm with the other ones*."



*I would very much like to be with Keira Knightly, but I'll until that happens...
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: March 23, 2006 04:42PM
Refurbvirgin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "We either die by the Americans, the insurgents in
> the name of jihad, the security companies, which
> kill you and leave you laying in the street, the
> Iraqi police or...the death squads. Three years
> after the American invasion of Iraq, I have only
> one wish. I do not want democracy, food,
> electricity and water. I just do not want to
> die."
> - Laith Muhammad, an Iraqi student.

[www.washingtonpost.com]

Loki is always taking things out of context.

It's interesting the way the REST of the story reads...

Quote

Laith Muhammad, 32, a student in Fallujah, 35 miles west of Baghdad, listed the risks Iraqis face these days. "We either die by the Americans, the insurgents in the name of jihad, the security companies, which kill you and leave you laying in the street, the Iraqi police or . . . the death squads," he said. Such squads are widely believed to be operating from within the country's Interior Ministry. Muhammad cited private militias as yet another threat.

"Three years after the American invasion of Iraq, I have only one wish," he said. "I do not want democracy, food, electricity and water. I just do not want to die."

Other Iraqis, however, are less quick to blame the United States.

Sardar Muhsin Maheed, 25, a student at Mosul University, said too many people blamed the occupation for all of Iraq's ills. He traced most problems to Hussein, suggesting that issues such as the poor economy are legacies of the ousted president.

"The U.S. has liberated us from Saddam and his oppression," he said. "We are not ready to form a democratic state, and that is because of the burden left by Saddam's regime."
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: March 23, 2006 04:59PM
MacMagus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> It's interesting the way the REST of the story
> reads...
>

No it's not.
It just shows that you can interview two people in Iraq and they may or may not have diverging views.
That's kinda the way of the world.
If it weren't, then there would be no problems.

Actually, the whole debate is tiresome.
That's why I urge all of you to give it a rest, and click on PeterB's @#$%& link.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: SteveJobs
Date: March 23, 2006 05:13PM
Oh, to answer the question, I am not implying anything. I am boiling down the facts as I read them. I am not judging them,.....idiots! smiling smiley



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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: March 23, 2006 05:24PM
> It just shows that you can interview two people in Iraq and they may or may not have diverging views.

That's exactly why it's interesting to me.

I appreciate it when the media presents multiple sides in a dispute as well as such facts that are available to allow me to form educated opinions.

I think that it's important to put these things in context. To see the verifiable facts. To judge events for ourselves and when appropriate, to blaze our own trails.

Alternatively, some people are led by those whose arguments ignore context, facts and deductive logic. Living for the emotional high of thrashing those who disagree. Raising false martyrs and violently opposing those who dare live their lives by the rule of reason.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 23, 2006 07:32PM
The sad thing is we could have gone to the UN and made the case that Saddam needed to be deposed on humanitarian grounds, which is provided for under UN charter agreements. Then we would be part of a worldwide coalition, with the human resources of Muslim nations standing with us in the streets, maintaining order and rebuilding Iraq. Unfortunately many of our allies and most favored nation trading partners have as bad or worse human rights records as Saddam, so we dared not go that way.

And Maggie is averse to quoting context as well:

"Kareem, 63, said he opposed the war. While drinking Turkish coffee and fingering a long string of worry beads in his Baghdad living room, he talked of what might have been, suggesting that perhaps the United States could have removed Hussein without starting a broader conflict."

We have taken the Iraqis out of Saddam's frying pan and cast them into the fire.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: March 23, 2006 07:53PM
> And Maggie is averse to quoting context as well:

Oops! Somehow you managed to miss the first part of that quote...

Quote

"The toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime was worth everything," said Fakhri Fikry Kareem, owner and publisher of the daily Meda newspaper, one of more than 100 newspapers that have begun publishing in Iraq since Hussein's fall. Despite a rocket attack on his office, a bomb attack on his car and the killing of three of his reporters, Kareem said: "I have never felt as free to speak any day in my life as today. If George Bush did anything good, it was toppling Saddam Hussein."

Context is everything.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 23, 2006 09:25PM
MacMagus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oops! Somehow you managed to miss the first part
> of that quote...

See my original quote again, numnutz.

"The toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime was worth everything. I have never felt as free to speak any day in my life as today. If George Bush did anything good, it was toppling Saddam Hussein. I am not pessimistic. But I'm upset, because the war and the occupation, which could have led to a new situation in Iraq, were squandered by the stupid mistakes committed by the American administration and military and the U.S. representatives in Iraq."

I hope you get through detox soon.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: March 24, 2006 03:31AM
> See my original quote again, numnutz... I hope you get through detox soon.

You always resort to name-calling when you realize that you've been caught in a deception.

I cited the original article which put the whole thing in context. You failed to do so.

Then you "forgot" to cite the whole quote from Kareem not once but twice. If you had the slightest integrity, you would have included the citation and more of each quote.

But how silly would that be? I mean expecting you to have integrity is like expecting a sick monkey to not eat his own feces.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 24, 2006 03:44AM
Maggie, you've repeatedly called me a liar, so you started the name-calling. You also accused me, groundlessly, of having threatened to kill the president. You've never provided an iota of proof for that allegation.

As to the quote, the only thing I left out in my original was

"... said Fakhri Fikry Kareem, owner and publisher of the daily Meda newspaper, one of more than 100 newspapers that have begun publishing in Iraq since Hussein's fall. Despite a rocket attack on his office, a bomb attack on his car and the killing of three of his reporters, Kareem said:...."

I went further in quoting the man's statement than you did, adding:

"I am not pessimistic. But I'm upset, because the war and the occupation, which could have led to a new situation in Iraq, were squandered by the stupid mistakes committed by the American administration and military and the U.S. representatives in Iraq."

Threatening the life of the president gets people locked up for long periods and subjected to intense investigation, so if you've got any proof for your allegation state it now, otherwise shut the fsck up.

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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: March 24, 2006 04:08AM
> You also accused me, groundlessly, of having threatened to kill the president.

It's only "groundless" because they pulled the thread, Loki. The admins are smarter than you are.

I find it very telling that you don't even remember everyone being horrified and pissed off at you.

'Guess it's just your normal state of life.


> I went further in quoting the man's statement than you did

Little bits here and there out of context don't add up to one big quote.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 24, 2006 05:20AM
There was never any thread like that, and you're the only one who's ever accused me of that. Had I advocated such a serious crime they would have banned me for violating the TOS. You're a vile liar, Maggit.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: March 24, 2006 05:32AM
> Had I advocated such a serious crime they would have banned me for violating the TOS.

There was no TOS at the time. You said the president deserved to die, and you were graphic enough that it looked like you were volunteering. People reported the thread and it got pulled.

Meanwhile, now that you've kindly drawn so much attention to it, others are on notice to watch you more carefully.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 24, 2006 06:05AM
MacMagus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was no TOS at the time. You said the
> president deserved to die, and you were graphic
> enough that it looked like you were volunteering.
> People reported the thread and it got pulled.

The only thing I wrote close to what you're suggesting was:

"As opposed to the death penalty as I am, I might make an exception for those who have administered it so often and so gleefully. Either that or having limbs they've cost others surgically removed and then spending life confined to a cell with a sadistic sodomite, and no Vaseline available at commissary.
Justice, unfortunately, does not always come in this life, but when W comes before God claiming salvation in Jesus's name surely the hypocrite will be told to depart for warmer climes than Crawford.
The total cost of this liars war is estimated to run over $2 trillion, when caring for all the wounded is factored in. W will go down in infamy."

[icasualties.org]

That doesn't rise to the level of threatening to kill him, and the mods never commented to me about it and the thread still is posted.
[forums.macresource.com]

Ask the mods to confirm any death threats I've made. They can't. You're a vicious liar. When our lives are over we are held accountable for every word that comes out our mouths. I'm an imperfect being, but I'm glad I'll be judged for my words and not yours.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: March 24, 2006 06:14AM
> When our lives are over we are held accountable for every
> word that comes out our mouths.

Too easy.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: March 24, 2006 01:17PM
I so love it when Loki goes beyond "friendly" and into downright hostile. It's just so damn...

predictable.


Seriously, man, get a hobby or something, OK ?
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Effin Haole
Date: March 24, 2006 02:05PM
Why do you all hate words so much?
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 24, 2006 02:25PM
I've been accused of threatening to kill the POTUS. Such threats are taken very seriously by the Secret Service, and I don't want to be dragged through a lengthy investigative and interrogation process on the basis of lies. MacMagus has made these charges repeatedly, with zero proof. Now he says that the mods have deleted the incriminating statements, but you notice none of the mods are backing him up. He is a vicious liar.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Guitarman
Date: March 24, 2006 03:54PM
Hey loki, it's not such a reach to believe that you threatened the prez's life. I mean look at all the history of all of your posts. Please. You did it, and it was pulled, but I'll bet it's on a backup server somewhere. Good luck pal.



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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 25, 2006 01:20AM
Guitarman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You did it,
> and it was pulled, but I'll bet it's on a backup
> server somewhere.

How would you like it if I started posting lies about you, G'man?

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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: RgrF
Date: March 25, 2006 03:45AM
The neat thing about this forum is no matter how fukked up your real life is, compared to some here your going to feel like your really on keel.

Free therapy.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Sam3
Date: March 25, 2006 05:30AM
Kind of like soap operas. There life is always worse and in more turmoil than one's real life.

But to try to get this thread back on track as it was hijacked a while ago...
I find it interesting that nowhere in the pulse24 article did it say "rescued". These "Christian" peacekeepers felt it's OK to lie and say "released" not "rescued." I thought Christianity included truth as a goal.

Well, OK I suppose technically a rescue is a release of sorts, a forced release.
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Re: Thank God for the illegal occupiers that saved our lives
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 25, 2006 11:01AM
Sam3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, OK I suppose technically a rescue is a
> release of sorts, a forced release.

They were found relatively unharmed (compared to hostages we've taken and held at Abu Ghraib, for instance) with none of their captors in their presence. Sounds to me like their captors knew one of their own had been captured and was likely to turn them in, given the reputation for superior torture techniques we've acquired, so they left. They could have killed the hostages, to eliminate any possibility of being identified, but instead they chose to "release them," if only under duress or fear of being caught and tried for more than one killing. From the perspective of the hostages, who may be concerned about the effects of their words on the captors of other hostages still held, it makes more sense to praise the humanity of their guards in hopes of encouraging others to "release" their "guests" as well. No sense in provoking them by bragging about their "rescue" which might provoke kidnappers to deny that possibility by killing their prisoners.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2006 11:09AM by Refurbvirgin.
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