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Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: Marc Anthony
Date: March 26, 2006 11:12AM
"There will be no polar ice by 2060"

When those snow caps are gone, so are we. Kyoto is nothing in comparison to what it's going to take to reverse this.

[www.cnn.com]



Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: SteveJobs
Date: March 26, 2006 11:32AM
Uh, for one, political.

For two, it won't cover everything with water.

And three, I don't believe it.



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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: March 26, 2006 11:42AM
Yes-We should be careful--but if not for global warming we would still be in the Ice Age.
One good Volcano destroys more than mankind can-since the beginning of mankind. So, we should be spending all the time and money to prevent erupting volcanos?
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: Mike Johnson
Date: March 26, 2006 11:49AM
Neither political nor controversial.
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: March 26, 2006 12:20PM
One may be led to believe that there is an equal amount of data, on both sides of the argument (i.e., is GW occurring due to man or not).

This is a misconception from what I've observed of proper studies on the subject.

As just one example, as pointed out in a survey done a couple of years ago:

[www.sciencemag.org]

At the time this survey was conducted, 928 scientific studies were done on the subject, all critically peer reviewed (which tossed out pseudo-science on both sides of the debate).

The 'gist' of it was that all of the studies indicated that GW was occurring in an accelerated manner. 75% of the studies pinned the cause as being human activities (with the other 25% not commenting on the link because it wasn't in the scope of their studies).

Steve, I understand that you don't believe in it. But did you come to this conclusion from considering what science (which doesn't include the opinion of 'paid' industry experts who can't produce any verifiable/peer reviewed scientific data to back up their claims) has to say on the subject?

The evidence on accelerated GW due to human activities is not 100% conclusive, but, like the Theory of Natural Selection, or The Big Bang, the OVERWHELMING evidence points in that direction. No other explanation for the causes of GW comes close.
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: March 26, 2006 12:24PM
"Day After Tomorrow"



Grateful11
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: Mike Johnson
Date: March 26, 2006 01:08PM
What I don't get is, you can argue the degree to which industrialization is responsible. Maybe we're in a natural warming trend, and we're just making things a bit warmer. So what? The climate is changing, and we need to deal with it. Even the oil industry shills agree that the climate is changing. Go back and look at the havoc wreaked by the Little Ice Age -- a couple degrees makes a huge difference. Global climate change is not just going to reduce heating oil costs.

Humans will adapt. Will the US? Maybe. Maybe not if we don't start working on it immediately. What will happen if we lose the ability to grow our own food? What'll happen to industry when we can no longer predict the weather? Can you imagine how much it'll cost to ship grain from Asia if shipping companies can't avoid typhoons?

One of the recurring arguments I hear from the local ostrich population is, they don't trust computer climate models to predict the future. Well, neither do I. But we do know the weather in fifty years will not be what it's like today, and if that doesn't scare you, you haven't paid much attention to the effect weather has on our lives. Or on the lives of plankton, and honeybees, and mosquitos.

I live in southern California. Global warming may make it a nicer place to live for all I know. Maybe we'll get more rainfall, and the LA River will become an actual river. I wouldn't mind catching mahi mahi in Santa Monica Bay. But it won't be just $10 million Malibu homes sliding into the Pacific. We might have to rebuild most of our freeways and remake Long Beach harbor. For all that talk about rising sea levels, what you don't hear mentioned much is how adding water to the oceans like that will change currents and redraw the shape of our coast. It'll move earth, subtracting beaches here, filling in harbors there.

LA, San Francisco, Seattle, San Diego, Houston/Galveston, New Orleans, Miami, Washington DC, Baltimore, Boston, and New York might each need hundreds of billions of dollars for rebuilding. This latest research just says it could happen in 50 years instead of 150.

I don't really care if somebody is pro-oil or what. What I don't appreciate is the shell game of blame which has convinced many Americans that global climate change is chicken little writ large. It's not.

Political? No. Controversial? No. Provocative? Yes.
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: trisho.
Date: March 26, 2006 02:10PM
And here I was thinking this thread was going to be about police racial profiling people. Go figure...
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: March 26, 2006 02:23PM
I'll admit, I did not know what the thread was going to be about when I clicked on it, but the term "whitelessness" seemed novel enough to get me to look.
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: grad
Date: March 26, 2006 03:19PM
By the way Bush decided that the US shouldn't abide by Kyoto. He refused to participate (I wonder why.... hmmmmm....)
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: Marc Anthony
Date: March 26, 2006 03:25PM
>>Uh, for one, political.<<

This is intended as a polite discussion on a scientific news story.

>>For two, it won't cover everything with water. <<

Is that all you think the ice is doing, just confining some water? Wind blowing across that ice is helping to regulate the temperature of this planet. When there is no more ice, there won't be much in the way of cool arctic breezes - the temperature shift will become extreme, at that point.

>>And three, I don't believe it.<<

Irrelevant. The evidence is everywhere.



Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: March 26, 2006 05:59PM
Whitelessness is next to Godlessness.
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: MacArtist
Date: March 26, 2006 07:58PM
What would have been the harm in following the Kyoto Treaty?

If the scientists are right, we just might have saved mankind. If the scientists were wrong, we would be leaving the environment in better shape for future generations.

Greedy corporations are willing to take that chance. People with a vested interest in the future (read our children) should not be willing to risk it all.



I sit on a man’s back, choking him and making
him carry me, and yet assure myself and others
that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his
lot by all possible means — except by getting off
his back. - Leo Tolstoy, novelist and Philosopher
(1828-1910)

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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 27, 2006 04:51PM
I, for one, look forward to owning waterfront property. My neighbors down the hill are just spoilsports.
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: davester
Date: March 28, 2006 12:03PM
SteveJobs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And three, I don't believe it.

Would you care to share your reasoning with us on this. Since your statement flies in the face of all the evidence I am aware of, I'd be interested in knowing what exactly drives people to make statements like this.





"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Whitelessness could kill us all
Posted by: RgrF
Date: March 29, 2006 04:11AM
davester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SteveJobs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > And three, I don't believe it.
>
> Would you care to share your reasoning with us on
> this. Since your statement flies in the face of
> all the evidence I am aware of, I'd be interested
> in knowing what exactly drives people to make
> statements like this.
>
>
Wouldn't be surprising if he needed someone to interpret. Seems he meant "I don't want to believe it, so I won't"

How's that Steve. It express your point of view? If not feel free to come back into the thread.


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