Press release from the American Family Association, which apparently believes that no Jews, Druids, atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Copts or people of any other religion live in Kentucky:

AFA celebrates Kentucky governor's change of heart on "Christmas" Tree

When Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear released a statement last week referring to the tree on the Capitol's front lawn as a "holiday" tree, the American Family Association (AFA) immediately swung into action.

Tim Wildmon, AFA president said, "We immediately sent out an action alert to every member of the AFA network who lives in Kentucky, and they flooded the governor's office with emails and telephone calls.

"We reminded the governor that there is no American tradition of a 'Thanksgiving' tree or a 'New Year's Tree,' and we appealed to him to call the tree what it is, a 'Christmas' tree.

"We applaud the citizens of Kentucky for making their voices heard - apparently, it's still 'We the People' in some parts of America - and we commend the governor for deciding to keep 'Christ' in 'Christmas.'"

Randy Sharp, AFA director of special projects, added, "I think the folks in Kentucky just decided they'd had enough political correctness when it comes to remembering the birth of Jesus Christ.

"After all, it's a classic American tradition to remember the births of individuals who have made a great contribution to our public life. We celebrate Abraham Lincoln's birthday, George Washington's birthday, and Martin Luther King Jr.’s birthday.

"We shouldn't have any hesitation whatsoever about continuing to commemorate the birth of Christ, especially since our founding documents, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, are dated 'in the year of our Lord.'"

American Family Association is a pro-family advocacy organization with over 2.5 million online supporters.

I agree that it is, in fact, a Christmas tree.

This is a truly silly debate we have every year. The 25th day of December is called Christmas. People have the day off because it is Christmas. What is the problem? If you don't like it wait one day and it will be Dec. 26 and it is no longer Christmas.

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If we're debating whether it is a Christmas tree then, yes, it will be truly silly.

On the other hand, the debate will also be brief, after which we can all go back to work.

I agree that it can be called a Christmas tree. Christians should admit though that it is a pagan ritual and tradition at its roots, based on the winter solstice. What does decorating a tree have to do with Christ? Nothing, as far as I know, except for the Catholic churches strategy of co-opting pagan holidays and rituals.

NO, it's NOT !!!

"In 1851, parishioners in Cleveland, Ohio, USA condemned as a pagan practice the actions of the pastor, Henry Schwan, for decorating one of the earliest Christmas trees in an American Christian church. Robert Chambers in his 1832 Book of Days asserts that the festivities of Christmas "originally derived from the Roman Saturnalia, had afterwards been intermingled with the ceremonies observed by the British Druids at the period of winter-solstice, and at a subsequent period became incorporated with the grim mythology of the ancient Saxons. Two popular observances belonging to Christmas are more especially derived from the worship of our pagan ancestors—the hanging up of the mistletoe and the burning of the Yule log." Regarding the Christmas tree itself, Chambers assumes that it "seems to be a very ancient custom in Germany, and is probably a remnant of the splendid and fanciful pageants of the Middle Ages.""

So there ! plplplp.

I can haz egg nog?

It's a Christmas tree. But all this "keep the Christ in Christmas" is going to result in no tree at all. Hope they will be happy.

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Well, her heart was filled with gladness when she saw those city lights. She said the prettiest place on earth is Baltimore at night.

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Greg
I can haz egg nog?

You have to make your own for the time being. I did not see it in the dairy section yesterday, but I was not really looking for it.

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"SCLIF"

Gutenberg..."Press release from the American Family Association, which apparently believes that no Jews, Druids, atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Copts or people of any other religion live in Kentucky:"

What makes you the expert on what the AFA believes or doesn't believe? Where's your evidence that the AFA doesn't believe there are no Jews, Druids, atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Copts or people of any other religion living in Kentucky?

The AFA's point is quite clear. If the state is going to set out a symbolic tree, then call the tree what it is and what it represents. It's a Christmas Tree.

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If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.

Pinus, Abies, Picea , Reddo ?

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$tevie
It's a Christmas tree. But all this "keep the Christ in Christmas" is going to result in no tree at all. Hope they will be happy.

Keeping Christ in Christmas is the whole point, $tevie. Why do you think there has been so much resistance to taking him out of the holiday? Why all the hatred for Christians? Why not expend your energy on promoting respect and tolerance of ALL religions and the people who practice them?

(And don't give me the "then you must respect the Muslim extremists" BS. There is nothing there to respect or tolerate.)

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If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.

Christ should be in Christmas.

Christmas should not be promoted by the government.

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Greg
Christ should be in Christmas.

Christmas should not be promoted by the government.

But...does that mean Dec. 25th/Christmas Day will no longer be a Federal Holiday?? Then count me out. I like my day off from work...or maybe it could be renamed to "Holiday Day"

Days off are fine, for any reason. Work if you wanna.

Edward S. Finkelstein would call you a fool.

I'd guess a lot of people call me a fool.

>>Why all the hatred for Christians?

Why all the hatred for gays?

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Greg
Christ should be in Christmas.

Christmas should not be promoted by the government.

That's true enough. My point was that these people are going to screw themselves out of their Christmas tree by making a big deal out of what it is being called. Down that road lies the decision to say Eff It, get rid of the stinking tree and there's no controversy.

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Well, her heart was filled with gladness when she saw those city lights. She said the prettiest place on earth is Baltimore at night.

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Greg
I can haz egg nog?

Not if you also eat meat.

Why do all the christians continue to insist that the christmas tree originated with christmas, when in fact (as cbelt3 pointed out), it's origins have nothing to do with christianity (same with mistletoe hanging) and until quite recently was considered a non-christian symbol of pagan yuletide ceremonies. Personally, I refer to it as a christmas tree but I'm well aware that it had nothing to do with christianity until appropriated by the churches in the last couple of hundred years. Perhaps we should go back to its origins and refer to it as a yule tree.

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Benjamin Franklin

I think the entire topic is tedious, frankly. Somebody needs to come up with a beautiful all-encompassing holiday tradition that can be used on government property so we can all stop yapping about the freaking trees. If Coca-Cola can essentially invent Santa Claus, then someone can step up and invent a winter holiday symbol.

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Well, her heart was filled with gladness when she saw those city lights. She said the prettiest place on earth is Baltimore at night.

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$tevie
...someone can step up and invent a winter holiday symbol.

How's this for a recent invention?

I said "all encompassing".

Is that "all encompassing"?

Good grief.

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Well, her heart was filled with gladness when she saw those city lights. She said the prettiest place on earth is Baltimore at night.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2009 02:17PM by $tevie.

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davester
Why do all the christians continue to insist that the christmas tree originated with christmas, when in fact (as cbelt3 pointed out), it's origins have nothing to do with christianity (same with mistletoe hanging) and until quite recently was considered a non-christian symbol of pagan yuletide ceremonies. Personally, I refer to it as a christmas tree but I'm well aware that it had nothing to do with christianity until appropriated by the churches in the last couple of hundred years. Perhaps we should go back to its origins and refer to it as a yule tree.

What does the tree stand for now is the question. If we are going to prattle on about origins then the swastika is groovy and the word "terrific" is scary. Pish posh.

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Well, her heart was filled with gladness when she saw those city lights. She said the prettiest place on earth is Baltimore at night.

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Greg
Christ should be in Christmas.

Christmas should not be promoted by the government.

Fine but why did few years ago they took Santa Claus off Coca Cola bottles for crying out loud? Is WalMart the government? Fact of the matter is the only people who complain that non-Christians are "offended" by hearing Merry Christmas are the self-appointed Christians speaking for the non-Christians. If I am offended I'll complain to the manager myself, thank you.

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Dakota

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Greg
Christ should be in Christmas.

Christmas should not be promoted by the government.

Fine but why did few years ago they took Santa Claus off Coca Cola bottles for crying out loud? Is WalMart the government? Fact of the matter is the only people who complain that non-Christians are "offended" by hearing Merry Christmas are the self-appointed Christians speaking for the non-Christians. If I am offended I'll complain to the manager myself, thank you.

I can address this, but please acknowledge that it's a totally different topic than what's been discussed so far.

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Greg
Christ should be in Christmas.

Christmas should not be promoted by the government.

I don't know why the thread continued after this statement.

Did Jesus have a Christmas tree?

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kanesa
Did Jesus have a Christmas tree?

YES! and there were multicolored blinking lights on it@

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Tim Wildmon of AFA is the son of Donald Wildmon. The nut doesn't fall far from the tree. You should hear the AFA radio station. Instead of trying to spread the Gospel, the rant and rave about gays and liberals all day and night.

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Dakota

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Greg
Christ should be in Christmas.

Christmas should not be promoted by the government.

Fine but why did few years ago they* took Santa Claus off Coca Cola bottles for crying out loud? Is WalMart the government? Fact of the matter is the only people who complain that non-Christians are "offended" by hearing Merry Christmas are the self-appointed Christians speaking for the non-Christians. If I am offended I'll complain to the manager myself, thank you.

*citation, please.

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"The way I see it, everybody takes a beating some time."

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Seacrest

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Dakota

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Greg
Christ should be in Christmas.

Christmas should not be promoted by the government.

Fine but why did few years ago they* took Santa Claus off Coca Cola bottles for crying out loud? Is WalMart the government? Fact of the matter is the only people who complain that non-Christians are "offended" by hearing Merry Christmas are the self-appointed Christians speaking for the non-Christians. If I am offended I'll complain to the manager myself, thank you.

*citation, please.

I believe that dakota's citation for pretty much everything is:

Dakota, W, 2009 (and prior years), When in Doubt Just Make Shit Up!: Journal of Irreproduceable Results, v13, no. 13, p. 13-1313.

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Benjamin Franklin

Did Jesus believe in Santa Claus?

More telling, does Santa believe in Jesus?

I'll go one further.
People should refer to December 25th as Christmas if they want to.
A tree with little ornaments on it that's put up specifically for Christmas should be referred to as a Christmas Tree.
Christmas should not be promoted by the government.
My tax dollars should not pay for Christmas decorations of any sort.

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Try to forget this,
Try to erase this,
From the blackboard.

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Dakota
This is a truly silly debate we have every year. The 25th day of December is called Christmas. People have the day off because it is Christmas. What is the problem? If you don't like it wait one day and it will be Dec. 26 and it is no longer Christmas.

Who are you addressing?
Who doesn't like that December 25th is Christmas?
You seem unable to follow this discussion.

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Try to forget this,
Try to erase this,
From the blackboard.

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Seacrest

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Dakota

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Greg
Christ should be in Christmas.

Christmas should not be promoted by the government.

Fine but why did few years ago they* took Santa Claus off Coca Cola bottles for crying out loud? Is WalMart the government? Fact of the matter is the only people who complain that non-Christians are "offended" by hearing Merry Christmas are the self-appointed Christians speaking for the non-Christians. If I am offended I'll complain to the manager myself, thank you.

*citation, please.

"They" were Coca Cola executives who bend over backwards at the slightest pressure from your wackjob buddies. Oh, the proof? How about grocery shelves.

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Dakota
Fact of the matter is the only people who complain that non-Christians are "offended" by hearing Merry Christmas are the self-appointed Christians speaking for the non-Christians.

Incorrect.

You're spitting back ideas you've heard from those who choose to represent their opposition as non-thinkers.

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Dakota

Quote
Seacrest

Quote
Dakota

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Greg
Christ should be in Christmas.

Christmas should not be promoted by the government.

Fine but why did few years ago they* took Santa Claus off Coca Cola bottles for crying out loud? Is WalMart the government? Fact of the matter is the only people who complain that non-Christians are "offended" by hearing Merry Christmas are the self-appointed Christians speaking for the non-Christians. If I am offended I'll complain to the manager myself, thank you.

*citation, please.

"They" were Coca Cola executives who bend over backwards at the slightest pressure from your wackjob buddies. Oh, the proof? How about grocery shelves.

Please tell me that, a.) you DO understand that Santa Claus is not a religious figure*, and b.) the lack of Santa Claus on Coca-Cola bottles (you still haven't come up with any PROOF that this has happened -- names, dates, press releases, that kinda shit -- only your 'word') is necessarily evidence that the Coca-Cola company was pressured -- directly or indirectly -- by nefarious forces to change its marketing during the winter holidays (there are several holidays during the winter, you know. And I am not even thinking about the obvious quasi- or otherwise religious ones).

*Yes, I know about St. Nick.

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"The way I see it, everybody takes a beating some time."

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Coca-Cola Enterprises brings holiday cheer to soft drinks
Friday, 30 October 2009

Retailers will be able to stock up from early November with special ‘Coke' Christmas packs featuring Santa Claus and festive ‘diet Coke' and ‘Coke Zero' packs to coincide with the launch of the ‘Greatest Gift' on-pack promotion.

[www.talkingretail.com]


[www.thecoca-colacompany.com]

[www.thecoca-colacompany.com]

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Well, her heart was filled with gladness when she saw those city lights. She said the prettiest place on earth is Baltimore at night.

I told you my citation was dead on.

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Benjamin Franklin

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davester
I told you my citation was dead on.

Bookmarked for future reference

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davester
I told you my citation was dead on.

Well, you are a respected investigative scientist...!

=wr=

Here's betting that the godless heathens again succeed in getting Coca Cola to pull the Christmas-specific items sometime around the first January week.

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Try to forget this,
Try to erase this,
From the blackboard.

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$tevie

Quote

Coca-Cola Enterprises brings holiday cheer to soft drinks
Friday, 30 October 2009

Retailers will be able to stock up from early November with special ‘Coke' Christmas packs featuring Santa Claus and festive ‘diet Coke' and ‘Coke Zero' packs to coincide with the launch of the ‘Greatest Gift' on-pack promotion.

[www.talkingretail.com]


[www.thecoca-colacompany.com]

[www.thecoca-colacompany.com]

"Talking Retail" has a well-known Liberal bias.

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"The way I see it, everybody takes a beating some time."

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davester
Why do all the christians continue to insist that the christmas tree originated with christmas, when in fact (as cbelt3 pointed out), it's origins have nothing to do with christianity (same with mistletoe hanging) and until quite recently was considered a non-christian symbol of pagan yuletide ceremonies.

Because, davester, these are the same people that believe that "Under God" was originally in the pledge when Jesus wrote it 6000 years ago.

Ha! I just got through talking to a guy who wanted to take issue with the fact that my paper uses "holiday tree" instead of "Christmas tree." I told him that as long as we distribute to a diverse readership I will use "holiday tree." Another reason to use "holiday tree" is because most of them in public areas are put up at Thanksgiving.

He claimed not to know what I was writing about (the little trains that many families put around the tree) because I said "holiday" and not "Christmas." I thanked him for calling and hung up.

I think from now on I will call it "Christmas®."

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Gutenberg
Ha! I just got through talking to a guy who wanted to take issue with the fact that my paper uses "holiday tree" instead of "Christmas tree."

Proof positive that liberals don't know when or where to stop. They always take a more or less defensible idea to ridiculous lengths. There is NO reason to put up that tree other than it is Christmas. If anyone was going to be offended by "Christmas tree" I would have been on the top of the list. Stop looking for "offended" people where there are none.

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There are plenty of commercial reasons.