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Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: April 29, 2006 10:35PM
So I thought about the 'defelonizing' people holding a small amount of drugs in Mexico, and what it means.

Theoretically, what it means is that the policia don't have to arrest the users, but DO have to arrest the pushers and dealers. Of course, the corruption in Mexico is so endemic that that is meaningless. It basically just means that the people who cannot afford to buy someone off aren't getting put in jail any more.

In this nation, what would that mean ? The same thing ?

Of course, the classic theory is that the government can make them all legal, then tax the hell out of them. Think prohibition.

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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: April 29, 2006 10:55PM
Barry Goldwater and William J. Buckley both came to the conclusion that decriminalization of drug use was in the best interest of the country as a whole.

The "War on Drugs" is now a firmly established industry and that industry will fight any good faith attempt to resolve the problem. Forfeiture laws have become an enormous income stream. Unhooking local law enforcement from that money could prove tougher than getting a junkie straight.
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: SteveJobs
Date: April 30, 2006 06:01AM
Last night on COPS, which I hate to watch, they had a girl with some heroin in her possession. The cop looked at her and said "That car will make a good Narcotics undercover car when we take it from you". The girl (18) cried and said she was not going to graduate from HS.

I don't like EITHER side of that story.



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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: norteamericano
Date: April 30, 2006 06:08AM
The Mexican police have more important things to do (and bribes to collect, etc.)
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: davester
Date: April 30, 2006 10:43AM
Decriminalize Rush Limbaugh, america's highest profile celebrity drug addict!

What RgrF said. The war on "some" drugs is an absurd and corrupt political football. Note that the most dangerous and addictive drug (cigarettes) in not illegal and in fact receives government subsidies. Similarly, alcohol is also an addictive and health damaging drug, worse than many illegal drugs when abused. Just as the end of prohibition smacked down the violent organized crime gangs of the '30s, stopping the violent gangbanging in america's cities will not occur unless we decriminalize drug use and treat drug addiction as an illness. The Rush Limbaugh plan of throwing all drug addicts (except himself) in jail and throwing away the keys won't work.

Oh yeah, one more thing...SHAKEMAN YOU ARE A MORON!



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2006 10:44AM by davester.
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: April 30, 2006 06:33PM
Who is "shakeman"?
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: SteveJobs
Date: April 30, 2006 06:55PM
I think he's talking to North American.



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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: April 30, 2006 08:33PM
generally a good discussion, thanks. Uh, well, ok, with an exception.

I liked the point about "getting cops and courts off the income stream addiction..."
Made me think about methadone addiction...
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: Ruby Begonia
Date: April 30, 2006 10:02PM
States "decriminalized" pot in the 1960s by lowering the penalties, and pot use exploded
among schoolchildren. The devastation to children, families, schools and communities has
continued uninterrupted ever since to currently over 500 overdose deaths occur EACH
WEEK throughout America.
Decriminalization is a killer- and your kid may be next!
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: April 30, 2006 10:42PM
But what about places such as Amsterdam (and many other countries in Europe I would guess)?

From what I understand, the only natives that are "druggies" are the ones who got hooked on various stuff when it was illegal. As soon as they decriminalized it, the local population stopped. My own observations (from a recent trip) all the drug users were foreign (i.e. English or American).
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: Rolando
Date: May 01, 2006 12:59AM
I've NEVER heard of a death caused by an "overdose" of pot. I have heard of death by OD of alcohol...
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: May 01, 2006 02:35AM
(smack, smack, smack) Steeempy, you fat bloated eeeeeediot. Don't you know mari-waaaana is a gateway drug that leads kids to overdosing on crunch, just like drinking milk does? (I remember seeing a study that implied just as many heroin users drank milk when they were young, as users that tried marijuana first)



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: SteveJobs
Date: May 01, 2006 04:32AM
Hmmm. I was never a milk drinker and have never had drugs(incl. alcohol). Might have some merit.



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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: May 01, 2006 08:35AM
Ruby Begonia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> States "decriminalized" pot in the 1960s by
> lowering the penalties, and pot use exploded
> among schoolchildren. The devastation to children,
> families, schools and communities has
> continued uninterrupted ever since to currently
> over 500 overdose deaths occur EACH
> WEEK throughout America.
> Decriminalization is a killer- and your kid may be
> next!

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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: raz
Date: May 01, 2006 09:32AM
Ruby Begonia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> States "decriminalized" pot in the 1960s by
> lowering the penalties, and pot use exploded
> among schoolchildren. The devastation to children,
> families, schools and communities has
> continued uninterrupted ever since to currently
> over 500 overdose deaths occur EACH
> WEEK throughout America.
> Decriminalization is a killer- and your kid may be
> next!

This is a fallacious argument. Correlation is not causation.

No reputable studies have concluded that decriminalization leads to increased addiction. Indeed, most point to lowered societal costs with respect to not needing to incarcerate non-violent offenders and allowing police to focus on other crimes.

However, it should be noted that Federal officials have steadfastly refused to fund large scale analyses of the issue.



--------------

Embarassing myself on the Internet since 1978.
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 01, 2006 02:27PM
Roland,

I'm not sure if anyone has died from an overdose of Pot. However, I've no doubt in my mind that Pot has been a contributing factor in countless deaths.

Robert
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: May 01, 2006 02:45PM
Robert M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not sure if anyone has died from an overdose
> of Pot. However, I've no doubt in my mind that Pot
> has been a contributing factor in countless
> deaths.

"Countless"?

More than alcohol? More than cigarettes? Morethan prescription drug abuse? More than sleep-deprived drivers?
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: Effin Haole
Date: May 01, 2006 06:40PM
Ruby Begonia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> States "decriminalized" pot in the 1960s by
> lowering the penalties, and pot use exploded
> among schoolchildren. The devastation to children,
> families, schools and communities has
> continued uninterrupted ever since to currently
> over 500 overdose deaths occur EACH
> WEEK throughout America.
> Decriminalization is a killer- and your kid may be
> next!


You are you so full of @#$%& your eyes are brown.

Show me even one overdose death from pot.



Strength without compassion is brutality. Compassion without strength is weakness.

We must train our minds to desire what the situation demands.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2006 06:43PM by Effin Haole.
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: bernadette
Date: May 02, 2006 03:07PM
Robert M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Roland,
>
> I'm not sure if anyone has died from an overdose
> of Pot. However, I've no doubt in my mind that Pot
> has been a contributing factor in countless
> deaths.
>
> Robert

I have to agree with you. When someone buys cannabis the chances are that at some time they will come into contact with someone that persuades them to go for a bigger high, with even sronger drugs than the "dope" the person is currently using.

When you go to a drug dealer of any kind, you are leaving yourself open to any number of other drugs that could be on offer.
Eventually you will try them, after all trying Ecstacy is only a "recreational", drug so why not.
One thing leads to another in most cases. Stop cannabis and you stop the progression to other "hard" drugs.
I know I've been there,got the t-shirt, seen the film and if they decide to make drug use part 2, I'll write the script.


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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: davester
Date: May 03, 2006 12:49AM
bernadette Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I have to agree with you. When someone buys
> cannabis the chances are that at some time they
> will come into contact with someone that persuades
> them to go for a bigger high, with even sronger
> drugs than the "dope" the person is currently
> using.
>
> When you go to a drug dealer of any kind, you are
> leaving yourself open to any number of other drugs
> that could be on offer.
> Eventually you will try them, after all trying
> Ecstacy is only a "recreational", drug so why
> not.
> One thing leads to another in most cases. Stop
> cannabis and you stop the progression to other
> "hard" drugs.
> I know I've been there,got the t-shirt, seen the
> film and if they decide to make drug use part 2,
> I'll write the script.


I think that is utter BS. Cigarettes and alcohol are far more addictive and life-threatening than cannabis. Most of the people I went to college with partook of cannabis and nobody I know ever tried harder drugs as a result.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 03, 2006 12:57AM
What Davester said. The "pot is a gateway drug" argument is the same as "well he was a brutal dictator anyway" argument; total horseshit.

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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: SteveJobs
Date: May 03, 2006 08:29AM
I've never even ventured into coffee, and recently got off of coke(coca cola).



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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 03, 2006 12:26PM
Davester,

I'm sorry you didn't snip my comments from your post as I never said pot was a gateway drug. While I believe it is to an extent, I'm more concerned about people performing day to day activities while under the influence, i.e. driving, writing a prescription for medication, handling food, etc. That's when pot can contribute to problems just as easily as drugs.

Take it a step further and combine pot with other drugs and it's a recipe for a potentially life threatening situation. Take it a step further and combine pot, other drugs and activities and it could result in a disaster that. I don't know about you, I'd rather not see a someone driving home after enjoying a doobie and a beer or two. Then again, that's tame when compared to other possiblies.

Robert
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: May 05, 2006 01:16PM
Robert M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Davester,
>
> I'm sorry you didn't snip my comments from your
> post as I never said pot was a gateway drug. While
> I believe it is to an extent, I'm more concerned
> about people performing day to day activities
> while under the influence, i.e. driving, writing a
> prescription for medication, handling food, etc.
> That's when pot can contribute to problems just as
> easily as drugs.
>
> Take it a step further and combine pot with other
> drugs and it's a recipe for a potentially life
> threatening situation. Take it a step further and
> combine pot, other drugs and activities and it
> could result in a disaster that. I don't know
> about you, I'd rather not see a someone driving
> home after enjoying a doobie and a beer or two.
> Then again, that's tame when compared to other
> possiblies.


These are all scenarios that would exist with or without the chronic. Combine alcohol (legal) with prescription drugs (legal) and you can die.

As far as gateway drugs, mother's milk leads to heroin, too. There is nothing magical about whacky tobbaccy's composition that makes it any more of a gateway than alcohol or nicotine.

I haven't heard any argument against the legalization of Mary Jane that could hold water given the currently legal recreational drugs (alcohol, nicotene & caffeine).

And, personally, I don't use it. I'm a single-malt Scotch man, meself. Even were it legalized, I would probably not be able to use it. I have spent my adult life in the military and nuclear industry. I have to pee in a cup every once-in-a-while. I don't think they have an objective test that shows you're under the influece of weed similar to a BAC test. They can only tell if you've used it in the recent past. Then again, maybe they do. I don't know.
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Re: Defelonizing users of drugs- crazy or not ?
Posted by: maccat
Date: May 05, 2006 01:23PM
"While I believe it is (a gateway drug)to an extent, I'm more concerned about people performing day to day activities while under the influence, i.e. driving, writing a prescription for medication, handling food, etc. That's when pot(insert alcohol) can contribute to problems just as easily as drugs.

Take it a step further and combine pot(alcohol) with other drugs (antidepressants, Ambien, insulin, beta-blockers)and it's a recipe for a potentially life threatening situation. Take it a step further and combine pot(alcohol), other drugs and activities and it could result in a disaster."

All of these scenarios are absolutely true of alcohol consumption. Many drunks are out there in the workforce. I find your argument flimsy at best, but I agree with your sentiment regarding multiple drug use.
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