... I just installed it on my MBP; it came pre-installed on my new Mini.

There are just so many frivolous UI stupidities and annoyances, IMO. Notifications is the first thing that comes to mind-- I turned that off almost immediately (no, I don't need to know everything right when it happens). Then I discovered that there's no way to switch off conversation mode in Mail (at least not globally). Also the Finder no longer shows how much hard drive space is available by default... scrolling is unintuitive and backwards... window resizing doesn't work properly... you can't open apps that you've downloaded without specifying they're "safe"... whatever apps were open when you shut down automatically reopen when you start up again... the list goes on and on.

Whoever came up with this stuff should be hung out to dry... seems like they're trying to emulate Vista, and the OS went two steps backward instead of forward. This cat needs to be neutered, ASAP!

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2013 02:02PM by PeterB.

PeterB-
I had the same experience. I'll tell you this.. get a trackpad. It works SO much better with one. Then it starts to look and feel iPadish. I'll admit to still getting tripped up by the scrolling, but I turned on the scroll bars and that helps.

Security & Privacy pref pane

Allow applications downloaded from:

( ) Mac App Store
( ) Mac App Store & identified developers
(•) Anywhere
( ) The Pirate Bay

---

[www.giyf.com]

all your complaints can be addressed item by item.

if you don't want to change, don't upgrade.

---

Finder > View > Show Status Bar (or Command / )

---

[www.giyf.com]

Try this:

[tweaksapp.com]

I agree, what were they thinking with some of this crap?

I installed Mountain Tweaks. It lets you turn off a lot of the stuff, including gate keeper.

jims

Wait, there's no way to turn off threaded view in the new Mail.app? Can anyone confirm that? That's seriously messed up. As soon as 10.8.3 comes out, I'm planning to update from 10.6.

---

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Funny, because I either like or don't even notice a problem with any of that stuff.

Notifications: like it. I like the visual as I often have my volume turned down and don't hear if mail, message, etc. comes in. I've my dock pinned far left so I don't see the alerts in the app icons sometimes.

Conversations/Mail: Didn't think I'd like that as it wasn't what I was used to, but it is better for me.

Have no concerns about hard drive space. A quick command-i on the hard drive icon isn't too much trouble even for my lazy ass the od time I'm curious.

Scrolling: Yes, I admit this one took a short period of time to get used to. I don't use a trackpad but have the magic mouse that works similarly and scrolling just makes more sense and matches the iPad.

Not sure what the problem with window resizing is. My safari windows work as I expect. I will admit that I'm not keen on iTunes and its resizing methods but I don't associate that with ML.

The open only safe apps is just there for the benefit of all. Can do with or without it. I understand the point of it as it might save someone from opening some nefarious app that was downloaded (think less net savvy folk). Is there a way to turn this off, perhaps.

Again, I like that all of the apps I had open re-open after a re-start. I almost never shut down my Mac and only re-boot as needed. Am i wrong in thinking there may be a "quit all apps" option you could use prior to shut down to help with this? I may have imagined that one.

Stick with it a bit and see if you change your mind on some of these things. As I said, some of the things actually seemed better to me that i wouldn't have considered. Some things I actually liked right off the bat. Other things I thought would be a problem ended up not bothering me at all.

(edit: I need to type faster. By the time I was done, most of that stuff was addressed )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2013 02:24PM by (vikm).

Quote
M A V I C
Wait, there's no way to turn off threaded view in the new Mail.app? Can anyone confirm that? That's seriously messed up. As soon as 10.8.3 comes out, I'm planning to update from 10.6.

Was one of the first things I turned off, unless I'm misunderstanding what he's talking about.

---

I have Mail Conversations turned off.

---

[www.giyf.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2013 02:34PM by decay.

I have to agree with (vikm) It didn't take me long at all to get used to pretty much all this stuff. I thought I would
hate ML after everything I had read heard but I didn't. I love being able to Message from my MBA. I actually even
like the conversation mode in Mail and I didn't even turn off the preview screen in Mail.

---

Grateful11

Love these threads, ever since Lion came out.

Change is bad because I don't like the changes even though they can essentially be reversed but I post that they can't be.

Duly noted (again ... and again.)

Quote
PeterB
Also the Finder no longer shows how much hard drive space is available by default

Quickly fixed by a simple menu item selection in the Finder.

Quote

... scrolling is unintuitive and backwards...

Also quickly fixed via System Preferences. On the other hand, I like natural scrolling: Think of the trackpad as a piece of paper...

Quote

whatever apps were open when you shut down automatically reopen when you start up again

And again, a quick preference change is all it takes to make your issue go away.

I too think Apple took a giant step backwards with the Lion series, but hey, it could be worse: [www.youtube.com]

the hard drive size and safe app things were changed a long time ago. I'm still in SL, and these things are the same (by default). But hey, I'm with you. I have no need to update to ML, and have no plans to do so until absolutely necessary.

I was given a newer laptop at work with 10.8 on it.

Since I need to keep up to speed with current OS, I'm jumping in.

I'm going to keep a bootable 10.6.8 partition handy in case I need to run old apps.

---

[www.giyf.com]

It's stupid. They had a fully functional OS in 10.6 . So what do they do? Change a bunch of stuff users--who actually use their computers to do work--in the OS that users don't like. But what do "users" know?

It's like the Mac world is becoming a bunch of David Pouge kool aid drinkers. These people will defend the Maps saga and Mountain Lion to no end.

Mail conversations can indeed be turned off. My mail interface looks almost exactly like the one in 10.6

The scrolling issue really bothers me. I think if I worked exclusively with Macs it wouldn't such a big deal, but I use Windows, Linux and Macs all day every day. It bugs the crap out of me everytime it scrolls the wrong direction. Fortunately, there is a way to change the default for that in System Prefs, but I don't remember where and I'm on a Linux machine currently so I can't find it, but I'm sure Google can probably find it for you.

---

**************************************
Nothing to see here, move along.

The scrolling change was stupid. It was changing the way we read in English, from left to right, to right left.

Most things can be changed back to the way God originally meant them to be.

One thing that is still messed up is the desk top. Doesn't matter what prefs I change, a file dropped to the desktop doesn't stay put.

---

Bryan
______________________________________________________
Mac Mini 2.4 GHz/8GB ram/OS 10.8.X
MacBook Pro (Early 2008 model) 2.4 GHz, 2GB ram, 200GB hard drive/ Mac OS 10.8.X and XP SP3
iPhone 4S iOS 6 64GB
Location: Cincinnati

I agree with those that are frustrated with Lion and Mountain Lion. I think 10.6.8 was lean and mean. The lion series mostly adds stupid UI choices and takes away useful features.

While SOME features can be changed back to the way they were before it is disappointing that most people seem to WANT to change it back. Why are we all digging into preferences and using special programs to get the OS back to being usable? Apple needs to wake up and focus on features and not on changing things for the sake of change.

Yes, I know I'll get flamed by apple apologists. Well I like it crispy so bring it.

They never should have removed Rosetta.

---

RIP, Greg the DogSitter. You are missed.

So, Apple made some changes to the default UI which many people didn't like but left the option to change them back.

It seems that the solution is to change them back and then continue to use your Mac as before. That's worked for me so far on OS 10.7.5.

Restoring the classic scrolling direction was easy.

However, there is no way to disable (or better yet, fine tune) the scrolling acceleration curve, which is tuned for Apple's (Magic) touch input devices, and puts everyone who uses a conventional scrolling mouse at a disadvantage.

This issue has been tempered somewhat now in ML and current Apple apps, but was noticeably bad at one time in Lion and older versions of iTunes.

I just put Leopard on a G4 PowerBook and the two-finger scrolling direction feels backward. Doesn't match my MBP nor my iPhone.

And unlike some of you, there's NO preference to "change it back."

Perspective's an amazing thing.

>So, Apple made some changes to the default UI which many people didn't like but left the option to change them back.

It seems that the solution is to change them back and then continue to use your Mac as before.

So why even bother? Why not keep things the same and if they must, offer the changes? If it ain't broke....
Think I'm still going to stay at 10.6.8 for awhile...

Let me ask this: For the users of ML (am not going to ask about 10.7), what improvements do you see with the new OS that makes it worth moving to?

WINDOWSHADE!

THEMES!

OMG!

---

[www.giyf.com]

Quote
DP
Let me ask this: For the users of ML (am not going to ask about 10.7), what improvements do you see with the new OS that makes it worth moving to?

Lots:

- gestures
- inertial scrolling
- Messages
- FaceTime
- AirPlay
- Reading List (Safari)
- full screen mode
- Launchpad
- Mission Control
- Notifications
- iCloud (and automatic realtime sync)
- App Store (and universal software update)
- dictation
- URL preview (e.g. links in email messages)
- document title bar contextual menu

Yeah, Mountain Lion is great!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2013 05:08PM by Article Accelerator.

I recently installed 10.8 on my new laptop and am determined to make it work while keeping things at the default whenever possible to get used to the changes before I switch over the Mac Pro.

I can live with the scrolling reversed - actually, I remember the very first time I saw a scrolling mouse and when I used it, the scrolling felt backward, but that was the standard for over 10 years - I got used to it.

I know I can get used to it again, but when I keep scrolling at default, it also means that horizontal scrolling is backward and worse, the one finger swipe gesture for forward/back in web pages is also reversed. And I have a much harder time getting used to that.

Any solutions?

btw, thanks for mountain tweaks - I will certainly use that...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2013 05:13PM by hal.

Hi everyone, I'm just checking back to this thread. True, most of the things I mentioned can be changed back, but why should they have to be?

Also ... the Mail conversations thing is NOT fixable. I've changed it to nonconversation view several times now, and it keeps reverting back. Edit: confirmed that I'm not the only one having this problem here.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2013 05:44PM by PeterB.

Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
They never should have removed Rosetta.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Rosetta went out when the Mac App Store came in. How better to improve revenues than by forcing users to replace perfectly-good software they already own?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2013 05:41PM by Will Collier.

Quote
PeterB
Also ... the Mail conversations thing is NOT fixable. I've changed it to nonconversation view several times now, and it keeps reverting back.

then you've got some sort of user-specific issue going on. Have you trashed mail prefs?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2013 05:41PM by clay.

Quote
clay

Quote
PeterB
Also ... the Mail conversations thing is NOT fixable. I've changed it to nonconversation view several times now, and it keeps reverting back.

then you've got some sort of user-specific issue going on. Have you trashed mail prefs?

It's not specific to me, or at least not just me... read my edit above.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Overall, I like ML.

I do use a few tweaks/addons to fix some things.

-Scroll Reverser. I am ok with natural scrolling on my trackpad and magic mouse, just not on my scrollwheel mouse.

- I have Display Menu installed to get back the menu for displays. Why Apple turned off the ability to have this using default OS software is beyond me.

I have altered Mail just a bit from the default settings, but overall I find it to be more productive.

Remember to hold 'Option' down when you want to have 'Save As'. I've come to terms with the standard 'Move' - it sure keeps my download folder much cleaner than before. But when I use a template, I want 'Save As!'

I cannot find a way to show available space in a hard drive on ML; that's one that I find annoying to lose.

Quote
PeterB
... I just installed it on my MBP; it came pre-installed on my new Mini.

There are just so many frivolous UI stupidities and annoyances, IMO. Notifications is the first thing that comes to mind-- I turned that off almost immediately (no, I don't need to know everything right when it happens). Then I discovered that there's no way to switch off conversation mode in Mail (at least not globally). Also the Finder no longer shows how much hard drive space is available by default... scrolling is unintuitive and backwards... window resizing doesn't work properly... you can't open apps that you've downloaded without specifying they're "safe"... whatever apps were open when you shut down automatically reopen when you start up again... the list goes on and on.

Whoever came up with this stuff should be hung out to dry... seems like they're trying to emulate Vista, and the OS went two steps backward instead of forward. This cat needs to be neutered, ASAP!

You can fix a lot of that stuff in System Preferences, but you have to go through each pref pane, line by line, checking every option to do it.

---

Mr. Curmudgeon, on Mountain Lion.

"-Scroll Reverser. I am ok with natural scrolling on my trackpad and magic mouse, just not on my scrollwheel mouse."

It took me about a day to get use to ML scrolling with my scrollwheel mouse. I thought of it this way,
the page is moving the same direction as the wheel.

Nah, it all went to hell when they put it on this here Linux thingie.

---

JoeM

Upgraded to 10.8.2 when I upgraded my hardware to Ivy Bridge. Had no choice as 10.6.8 doesn't support IB. From all the ML hate posts I had misgivings but with a few simple preference & menu choices I'm now a satisfied Mountain Lion user. It looks like SL, only faster.

---

N39° 39.7234', W075° 33.9788'
No son, a time a town or even a country is really lost is when the people who live in it get careless and stop paying attention to how it's being run... - Lucas McCain

> Notifications is the first thing that comes to mind-- I turned that off almost
> immediately (no, I don't need to know everything right when it happens).

It's handier than you think. Give it a real try. Enable alerts for Mail, Calendar and Reminders and disable them for everything else.


> Then I discovered that there's no way to switch off conversation mode in Mail (at
> least not globally).

Yep. But you only have to disable it in each mailbox once.


>Also the Finder no longer shows how much hard drive space is available by default...

True, but go to the view menu and show the path/status bars and it's back in every Finder window.


> scrolling is unintuitive and backwards...

System Preferences > General > Show Scroll Bars Always

System Preferences > Mouse (Or Trackpad) > Scroll and Zoom ... Uncheck natural scrolling.


> window resizing doesn't work properly...

Huh?


> you can't open apps that you've downloaded without specifying they're "safe"...

System Preferences > Security > General > Allow applications downloaded from anywhere


> whatever apps were open when you shut down automatically reopen when you start up again...

Uncheck the "Reopen windows when logging back in" box in the restart/shutdown dialog.

Check "Close windows when quitting an application" in System Preferences > General.

...

Yes, the GUI in Lion and Mountain Lion can be painful to adapt to. Luckily, the worst of the BS can be worked around to make it a useful OS again. With a bit of work.

> window resizing doesn't work properly...

this has NEVER worked properly (IMHO) in OS X, any version.

---

[www.giyf.com]

Quote
decay
> window resizing doesn't work properly...

this has NEVER worked properly (IMHO) in OS X, any version.

Double huh?

Quote
Chakravartin
> Notifications is the first thing that comes to mind-- I turned that off almost
> immediately (no, I don't need to know everything right when it happens).

It's handier than you think. Give it a real try. Enable alerts for Mail, Calendar and Reminders and disable them for everything else.


> Then I discovered that there's no way to switch off conversation mode in Mail (at
> least not globally).

Yep. But you only have to disable it in each mailbox once.


>Also the Finder no longer shows how much hard drive space is available by default...

True, but go to the view menu and show the path/status bars and it's back in every Finder window.


> scrolling is unintuitive and backwards...

System Preferences > General > Show Scroll Bars Always

System Preferences > Mouse (Or Trackpad) > Scroll and Zoom ... Uncheck natural scrolling.


> window resizing doesn't work properly...

Huh?


> you can't open apps that you've downloaded without specifying they're "safe"...

System Preferences > Security > General > Allow applications downloaded from anywhere


> whatever apps were open when you shut down automatically reopen when you start up again...

Uncheck the "Reopen windows when logging back in" box in the restart/shutdown dialog.

Check "Close windows when quitting an application" in System Preferences > General.

...

Yes, the GUI in Lion and Mountain Lion can be painful to adapt to. Luckily, the worst of the BS can be worked around to make it a useful OS again. With a bit of work.

Well, again, why add a whole bunch of new stuff that has to be disabled rather than have it there as an option to enable? It just seems Apple made changes for change's sake. My 3.6 i5 with 16gb runs very fast in 10.6.8 so if speed is a reason to move to ML it's not reason enough for me especially when it's so "painful to adapt to".

Quote

Well, again, why add a whole bunch of new stuff that has to be disabled rather than have it there as an option to enable? It just seems Apple made changes for change's sake. My 3.6 i5 with 16gb runs very fast in 10.6.8 so if speed is a reason to move to ML it's not reason enough for me especially when it's so "painful to adapt to".

The interface changes seem to have been made to make the OS more palatable or familiar to people who only know the iOS, and to attempt to idiot-proof the OS for those people. Understandable from a marketing standpoint, but since almost none of the new mobile-user-oriented and fluff stuff matters to me (Facebook integration, notifications, messaging, etc.), there are no advantages to offset the loss of Rosetta, the proper functioning of "Save as", etc.

I turned off as much of this stuff as I could, but you can't get rid of all of the annoyances. I have Lion on one drive, but I rarely use that drive. I am planning to stay with Snow Leopard for as long as possible. If Apple comes up with an OS that is significantly better and that offers an easy option for turning off the fluff and training wheels, I'll be happy to try it. I'm usually excited about OS upgrades.

Quote
ka jowct

Quote

Well, again, why add a whole bunch of new stuff that has to be disabled rather than have it there as an option to enable? It just seems Apple made changes for change's sake. My 3.6 i5 with 16gb runs very fast in 10.6.8 so if speed is a reason to move to ML it's not reason enough for me especially when it's so "painful to adapt to".

The interface changes seem to have been made to make the OS more palatable or familiar to people who only know the iOS, and to attempt to idiot-proof the OS for those people. Understandable from a marketing standpoint, but since almost none of the new mobile-user-oriented and fluff stuff matters to me (Facebook integration, notifications, messaging, etc.), there are no advantages to offset the loss of Rosetta, the proper functioning of "Save as", etc.

I turned off as much of this stuff as I could, but you can't get rid of all of the annoyances. I have Lion on one drive, but I rarely use that drive. I am planning to stay with Snow Leopard for as long as possible. If Apple comes up with an OS that is significantly better and that offers an easy option for turning off the fluff and training wheels, I'll be happy to try it. I'm usually excited about OS upgrades.

I agree; the new OS's are to get people who have bought iPhones to switch to Mac if they are PC users. I too am usually excited about new updates but IMHO (from mostly what I've read on the forum) I can't call Lion or ML "upgrades"!

My problem in Mountain Lion is mainly with memory management, something others have reported.

Photoshop CS6 has claimed more than 5GB of memory. Firefox and Mail will work up to 1GB or more. Even Finder has exceeded 1GB of memory usage (all as shown in Activity Monitor).

I have to keep Activity Monitor open all the time and, when an app starts taking too much memory, I restart it.

Other quirks in Mountain Lion:

As in Lion, things sometimes disappear. Quickview images, for instance, will sometimes fail. Windows can take forever to open.

More than anything, this is a recurring, daily, constant bother: ML opens windows on top of each other, with the top one approaching full screen. ML needs to tile its open windows! Otherwise, you have to spend your attention, in almost every task, moving and resizing windows unnecessarily. This is a serious obstacle in the workflow.

Quote
space-time

Quote
decay
> window resizing doesn't work properly...

this has NEVER worked properly (IMHO) in OS X, any version.

Double huh?

triple huh?

Quote
what4
My problem in Mountain Lion is mainly with memory management, something others have reported.

Photoshop CS6 has claimed more than 5GB of memory. Firefox and Mail will work up to 1GB or more. Even Finder has exceeded 1GB of memory usage (all as shown in Activity Monitor).

I have to keep Activity Monitor open all the time and, when an app starts taking too much memory, I restart it.

Are you seeing a lot of page outs? If not, don't worry about it. The way memory management (has always) worked in OS X, is that apps don't give up RAM they've acquired until it's requested back by the system. And that's usually only when it runs out.

---

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Mac News & Info: [macintouch.com] [macnn.com] [tuaw.com]
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Used Mac Stuff [FS/T]: [macswap.org] LowEndMac Swap List
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Online Computer Store With Mac Support: [macsales.com]

Quote
what4
I have to keep Activity Monitor open all the time and, when an app starts taking too much memory, I restart it.

Don't bother.