[money.cnn.com]

why should tax payers bail out these morons? why not let the market collapse to that wise people could finally afford a house? why keep the prices inflated at this unrealistic levels?

Quote
space-time
http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/23/news/economy/housing_bill/index.htm?cnn=yes

why should tax payers bail out these morons? why not let the market collapse to that wise people could finally afford a house? why keep the prices inflated at this unrealistic levels?

My thoughts exactly. During the last collapse in 1991, I don't recall anyone coming to my rescue to make up for the 15% drop in my property's value within months after I bought it. I took my lumps and rode it out. Why should today be any different? I would have loved to been able to move up to a real house instead of a staying in my condo sometime in 2002-2005, but couldn't because of all the idiots who drove prices so sky high. Well - it's now time for them to pay the piper. Prices around my area are now back to around 2004 prices - I'd love to see them get back to 2003 prices, but I don't think that's gonna happen - they've actually creeped up a bit the past 2-3 months...

Here we go again.
There is nothing about this legislation which constitutes tax payers bailing out homeowners in over their heads. This is aimed at the entire market; do you guys know how hard it is for =anyone= to get a mortgage right now? You guys will never want to mortgage a new property or refinance?
Must be nice to live in some foofy upscale neighborhood so swimming in wealth that a mortgage industry meltdown wouldn't affect it.

Quote
Black Landlord
Here we go again.
There is nothing about this legislation which constitutes tax payers bailing out homeowners in over their heads. This is aimed at the entire market; do you guys know how hard it is for =anyone= to get a mortgage right now? You guys will never want to mortgage a new property or refinance?
Must be nice to live in some foofy upscale neighborhood so swimming in wealth that a mortgage industry meltdown wouldn't affect it.

Okay...then is there any reason why we should bail out the companies that got themselves into this mess? Or the institutions that bought their stock?

---

Sorry BL, but you need to peruse the legislation, not just a report about its alleged benefits.
There's a reason this bill is 3,000 pages long

So, let me see if I get this right...
Citizen X is either stupid or lack ethics and obtains a mortgage fraudulently {liar loan} to purchase a home he/she can't afford.

Now Congress wants us honest citizens to pay to rescue them? Do the elected officials really expect these folks to honor their new, government backed loans? I don't, I see millions of these 'bail out' mortgages going into default within the first 18 months.
btw, the US Congress does not have any money, it is OUR money they're pissing away.


Don't forget, this {housing bill} boondoggle will raise the national debt limit to $10.6 trillion, an $800 billion increase.

This scam makes the Central Bank of Iraq robbery look like a teenage prank!

Black Landlord do you need bailing out or something or are you one of those that gave out
loans to people that shouldn't have received one? You go on the defensive every time this
is brought up.

I know at least 3 BMW X5 Porche driving popular individual realtors in our town who bought large homes and fixed'm up then tried to flip'm for exhorbitant profits. Could not even do a short sale. Those houses are now in foreclosure. Another one skipped town!

---

Kap

Quote
Grateful11
Black Landlord do you need bailing out or something or are you one of those that gave out
loans to people that shouldn't have received one? You go on the defensive every time this
is brought up.

Did any of you read even a report of what's in the bill?

It has nothing to do with the way you're desrcibing it, plain and simple.

I am not in need of bailing out, but would like to refinance this year to lock in at current rates-- if nobody can get mortgages then no properties are going to appraise high enough for that to be possible, Including all of you.

Can nobody see how letting Fannie and Freddie crash and burn is going to hurt all of you badly?

Quote
mattkime

Quote
Black Landlord
Here we go again.
There is nothing about this legislation which constitutes tax payers bailing out homeowners in over their heads. This is aimed at the entire market; do you guys know how hard it is for =anyone= to get a mortgage right now? You guys will never want to mortgage a new property or refinance?
Must be nice to live in some foofy upscale neighborhood so swimming in wealth that a mortgage industry meltdown wouldn't affect it.

Okay...then is there any reason why we should bail out the companies that got themselves into this mess? Or the institutions that bought their stock?

Bail out? This bill is about government backing, just like they have had in most european countries for eons. I thought you were a barefoot commie-pinko socialist type, mattkime?

Sounds like the kind of people that get jealous of handicapped drivers because they get the best parking spots.

You put your blinders on and see only those that take advantage of a situation. Every woman that receives welfare is a vulturous queen, every homeowner that struggles with their mortgage is a cheat and a liar.

What's to be defensive about? If you can't see beyond your own limited range then you'll never understand what people go through. Or you can see just fine, but you don't want to, because someone would be getting something you won't be getting.

I didn't hear of any of you sending back the pure welfare (money not earned) called a stimulus check. They just call it something else for some people.

"I didn't hear of any of you sending back the pure welfare (money not earned) called a stimulus check. They just call it something else for some people."

We're all going to pay that back with interest and more in the next few years, don't you worry.

The original post is crap.

Individuals regardless of their mistakes don't often get bailed out.

Corporate interests regardless of their mistakes do often get bailed out. If some individuals get bailed with them it's just backwash, not intent.

Take this from an old codger...

The 20 somethings today want it ALL and they want it NOW. They are unwilling to save and sacrifice to make a substantial down payment. They want to live like mom and dad (2 cars, big house, vacations, big boy toys), but don't realize that Mom and dad worked hard for 20+ years to "get" all those things. Selfish kids living on credit, fulfilling their desires with plastic wealth. I didn't own a home until I was 45 years old. I drive a 12 year old car. Except for my mortgage, I'm NOT in debt. I save until I can pay cash.

I blame the spoiled kids, greedy banks and realtors. Let 'em go belly up. They took the gamble, they lose.

---

The solution to the problem is to find a solution to the problem.

Some people constantly trumpet the values of a free market, that is until the free market doesn't work out so well for them.

I feel pretty defensive about this, too. We can spend trillions to try to prop up an Iraqi government that doesn't care enough about itself to even try to figure out how to govern, but we can't try to keep the people in the housing, banking and realtor industries from ending up on the street selling apples?

It doesn't matter if the price of housing goes down at this point -- people with less than a 700 FICO score won't be able to get a mortgage at all to pay for this cheaper house, and if they do it will be at 8+%, so the cheaper house won't be all that much cheaper come mortgage payment time.

It's the new home buyers who need a break, this has little to do with "morons who bought huge expensive houses" at the end of the day.

---

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2008 12:07PM by $tevie.

Quote
$tevie
...It's the new home buyers who need a break, this has little to do with "morons who bought huge expensive houses" at the end of the day.

I want my break too...where's my free refinance, with 30% of my mortgage amount written off??

Quote
swampy
Take this from an old codger...

The 20 somethings today want it ALL and they want it NOW. They are unwilling to save and sacrifice to make a substantial down payment. They want to live like mom and dad (2 cars, big house, vacations, big boy toys), but don't realize that Mom and dad worked hard for 20+ years to "get" all those things. Selfish kids living on credit, fulfilling their desires with plastic wealth. I didn't own a home until I was 45 years old. I drive a 12 year old car. Except for my mortgage, I'm NOT in debt. I save until I can pay cash.

I blame the spoiled kids, greedy banks and realtors. Let 'em go belly up. They took the gamble, they lose.

One problem is that many of their parents probably did not work 20+ years to get all of those things. Instead it was their grandparents quite often who gave a head start to the intervening generation, so many of them do not know how teach their children to start with less. I was in my 30's when I got a house and my first and only new car. But I saw many of my generation already in homes and getting all of that "stuff" years before I could through the help of their parents. Or getting high paying jobs right out of school, those seem to be much scarcer the last decade. I guess I "benefitted" from coming from a large family, everything had been in short supply all my life anyways.

Quote
swampy
Take this from an old codger...

We know, we know...

Uphill, both ways, in the snow...

Every generation gets to the point where they start with the "Kids today!"





Now GET OFF MY LAWN!

Al Sharpton is getting away with some housing slight of hand deals.

Quote
SDGuy

Quote
$tevie
...It's the new home buyers who need a break, this has little to do with "morons who bought huge expensive houses" at the end of the day.

I want my break too...where's my free refinance, with 30% of my mortgage amount written off??

So you would prefer paying 20% interest with a 20% down payment? Because that is what you are asking for if you let the industry go to hell.

---

What i don't get is this.

If I do not own a home, I don't get the tax advantages (write offs and deductions) - so I end up paying the bill for the people who do "own" a home. Now, if the homeowner screws up because he's taken a loan on a home he has no hope of paying, I pick up the difference as a tax payer to bail him out.

And the people who make a ton of money running the mortgage companies get tax breaks because they make so much, and I have to make up the difference in my tax burden. But if that same person runs his company at best badly, or worse, illegally, I as the tax payer foot the bill when the company is bailed out by the government and with my tax dollars.

Shouldn't the investors in a company pay for that company's screw ups? I don't remember investing in Bear Stearns. I don't recall buying into Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac or Indy Mac Bank for that matter.

Then you tell me this situation is good for me.

Really? How? I always thought it was "You pays your money and you takes your chances". Now it seems to be "You takes the money, and the suckers will pay the bills for you".

I am not saying that the situation is good for anybody. I am saying that having a housing and economic meltdown is not going to help anyone, so why let it happen?

Look at the big picture. Dozens of foreclosed houses sitting empty in neighborhoods, dragging down the value of the homes of perfectly innocent people, and meanwhile other perfectly innocent people will have to pay a small fortune in interest rates because the companies have to make up their losses somehow. That's what I mean: anyone who is looking to buy or sell a house is going to get screwed if the real estate market grinds to a halt, because nobody will be able to lend money and nobody will be able afford to pay the outrageous interest rates that lenders will be charging.

It's already very difficult for a new home buyer to find a lender. Why make it even harder?

---

Quote
BCam
What i don't get is this.

If I do not own a home, I don't get the tax advantages (write offs and deductions) - so I end up paying the bill for the people who do "own" a home. Now, if the homeowner screws up because he's taken a loan on a home he has no hope of paying, I pick up the difference as a tax payer to bail him out.

And the people who make a ton of money running the mortgage companies get tax breaks because they make so much, and I have to make up the difference in my tax burden. But if that same person runs his company at best badly, or worse, illegally, I as the tax payer foot the bill when the company is bailed out by the government and with my tax dollars.

Shouldn't the investors in a company pay for that company's screw ups? I don't remember investing in Bear Stearns. I don't recall buying into Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac or Indy Mac Bank for that matter.

Then you tell me this situation is good for me.

Really? How? I always thought it was "You pays your money and you takes your chances". Now it seems to be "You takes the money, and the suckers will pay the bills for you".

In principal, tax breaks on mortgage interest payment for homeowners are good for the country, since a nation of renters not building equity and living hand-to-mouth is not good. Unless you'd rather fund a welfare state and a huge expansion of public housing with your tax money. Which, I guess you do, since I never hear you complain about that.
Again, "progressive" european countries have us way beat in government programs to foster homeownership and accumulation of equity.

Quote
swampy
Take this from an old codger...

The 20 somethings today want it ALL and they want it NOW. They are unwilling to save and sacrifice to make a substantial down payment. They want to live like mom and dad (2 cars, big house, vacations, big boy toys), but don't realize that Mom and dad worked hard for 20+ years to "get" all those things. Selfish kids living on credit, fulfilling their desires with plastic wealth. I didn't own a home until I was 45 years old. I drive a 12 year old car. Except for my mortgage, I'm NOT in debt. I save until I can pay cash.

I blame the spoiled kids, greedy banks and realtors. Let 'em go belly up. They took the gamble, they lose.

You're running away with a fantasmagorical straw man rather than describing the average person facing foreclosure.
Next?

Around 95% of those facing forclosure were quite aware they would or could down the road when they signed on the dotted line. The bubble was not supposed to burst.

How exactly do you help just those who deserve it ?

Debate a bailout in Congress for 6 or 7 administrations ?

Quote
billb
Around 95% of those facing forclosure were quite aware they would or could down the road when they signed on the dotted line.

Where did you come up with a statistic like that? It sounds apocryphal to me.

---

Quote
billb
Around 95% of those facing forclosure were quite aware they would or could down the road when they signed on the dotted line. The bubble was not supposed to burst.

How exactly do you help just those who deserve it ?

Debate a bailout in Congress for 6 or 7 administrations ?

There you go billb, pulling statistics out of your arse. Tell us all, where do you get this 95% if you are not. Or like so many, was it just made up on the spot to justify your argument? Given that even the most negative reports on those facing foreclosure I have seen or read give a number more like 10-15%, I'm betting on made up on the spot.

I am beginning to think that "morons who bought big houses that they couldn't afford" have replaced "welfare Cadillac queens" as the mythic person we are supposed to blame any economic problems on.

---

Quote
vision63
I didn't hear of any of you sending back the pure welfare (money not earned) called a stimulus check. They just call it something else for some people.

Ahem, I was going to do just that because I did not want to be bothered with adding another taxable item on my next year tax filling.

---

Kap

Quote
kap

Quote
vision63
I didn't hear of any of you sending back the pure welfare (money not earned) called a stimulus check. They just call it something else for some people.

Ahem, I was going to do just that because I did not want to be bothered with adding another taxable item on my next year tax filling.

Except it is not another taxable item on next year's tax filing. The only persons who do have to put down anything on next year's taxes are those who did not get a stimulus check and become eligible for one later. But apparently you can't be bothered to actually read the details before spouting off nonsense to prove how responsible you are.

>If I do not own a home, I don't get the tax advantages (write offs and deductions) - so I end
up paying the bill for the people who do "own" a home.

Well my home doesn't really help me anymore on my taxes because the interest paid on it
plus other deductions isn't higher than the standardized deduction. So you're not paying my bill.

And those of us who own a home with a fixed mortgage, and do whatever we have to do to meet our monthly financial commitment, which we agreed to in writing, get absolutely nothing for being responsible and honest members of society. The good guys get screwed. I'm sure my taxes will go up to cover those imbeciles once again.

Well, too many people cheered the market on when their property values went up and did not pay attention to why in many cases. In all too many it was because the easy credit, on whatever repayment terms could be negotiated, allowed some buyers to bid up prices faster than might have happened otherwise. But people were happy those purchases by their new neighbors made their house "worth" more. Now they get to reap the downside if they did not manage to cash out before the bubble burst. I don't like it any more than some of the posters, but I want to at least have some mortgage market still around so I can find a buyer when I eventually get ready to sell off my house.

So while there was fraud going on by buyers, lenders and others, it is also clear that many of the persons effected did not commit any fraud. Some were stupid, or easily convinced to go in over their head, but some just were buying in an overheated market and paid what the "going rate" was. Unfortunately, in straightening out this mess, some who should not be helped, will be helped. Others who should, won't. And we as a whole will end up paying.