Friends, be careful out there intervening in 3rd party situations

[pRICE cUBE]

Good Samaritan stabbed to death intervening in attack on child

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/a-...e/2494334/

A good Samaritan was stabbed and killed when he attempted to intervene in an an attack that started as an argument Friday morning at a Berwyn grocery store, authorities said.

Humberto Guzman, 32, of Justice, died following the incident, which occurred at approximately 10:15 a.m. at Valle's Produce, 6323 Cermak Rd.

Police said the altercation started when a teenage girl approached her mother, a cashier, and asked how much a bottle of water costs. A man accused the girl of cutting in the checkout line, started swearing and then punched her in the face several times, according to Berwyn Police Chief Michael Cimaglia.

Guzman, who was shopping in the store, tried to intervene at which point the suspect pulled a knife out of his pocket and stabbed the 32-year-old several times.

The woman, her daughter and a store employee chased the man out of the building shouting for help. Another person tried to stop the man, and that person was also stabbed in the stomach, police said.

Authorities said the man was later found sitting on a porch with what appeared to be the knife used in the stabbing.

A woman who was shopping at the time said she and the other customers are alive because of Guzman and the other man who stepped in to help.

"He is a hero," said an individual who translated during an interview. "She would have been the one dead if not for this man."

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Friends, I post this as a reminder that carrying self defense measures is something I recommend. You never know what a misunderstanding at a store can erupt into homicidal rage. In another story I read of this incident, the aggressor was punching this child before others intervened.

Be careful when intervening with hotheads. Some suggestions:
1. Have awareness of situations developing.
2. Keep your physical distance if you can.
3. Self defense measure such as pepper gel may buy you time to evade and escape.

Here is a previous thread about pepper gel.
https://forums.macresource.com/read.php?...sg-2606600

[JPK]

Chicago, which I consider Berwyn to be a part of, is so messed up. Crime is out of control and people are leaving the city and state in droves.

What was once one of the best cities in the world is now a train wreck.

Not ‘intervening’ is not the solution to today’s problems.

John P. Kelly

[DeusxMac]

pRICE cUBE wrote:
Good Samaritan stabbed to death intervening in attack on child

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/a-...e/2494334/

A good Samaritan was stabbed and killed when he attempted to intervene in an an attack that started as an argument Friday morning at a Berwyn grocery store, authorities said.

Humberto Guzman, 32, of Justice, died following the incident, which occurred at approximately 10:15 a.m. at Valle's Produce, 6323 Cermak Rd.

Police said the altercation started when a teenage girl approached her mother, a cashier, and asked how much a bottle of water costs. A man accused the girl of cutting in the checkout line, started swearing and then punched her in the face several times, according to Berwyn Police Chief Michael Cimaglia.

Guzman, who was shopping in the store, tried to intervene at which point the suspect pulled a knife out of his pocket and stabbed the 32-year-old several times.

The woman, her daughter and a store employee chased the man out of the building shouting for help. Another person tried to stop the man, and that person was also stabbed in the stomach, police said.

Authorities said the man was later found sitting on a porch with what appeared to be the knife used in the stabbing.

A woman who was shopping at the time said she and the other customers are alive because of Guzman and the other man who stepped in to help.

"He is a hero," said an individual who translated during an interview. "She would have been the one dead if not for this man."

---

Friends, I post this as a reminder that carrying self defense measures is something I recommend. You never know what a misunderstanding at a store can erupt into homicidal rage. In another story I read of this incident, the aggressor was punching this child before others intervened.

Be careful when intervening with hotheads. Some suggestions:
1. Have awareness of situations developing.
2. Keep your physical distance if you can.
3. Self defense measure such as pepper gel may buy you time to evade and escape.

Throw stuff at them from a distance; a lot and hard. Canned goods would have been a good choice in this instance.

[pRICE cUBE]

DeusxMac wrote:
Throw stuff at them from a distance; a lot and hard. Canned goods would have been a good choice in this instance.

Be careful if you are in an enclosed space with a weaponized loon. A person with a knife can close the distance of 18-20 feet in about 1.5-2 seconds.

[DeusxMac]

pRICE cUBE wrote:
[quote=DeusxMac]
Throw stuff at them from a distance; a lot and hard. Canned goods would have been a good choice in this instance.

Be careful if you are in an enclosed space with a weaponized loon. A person with a knife can close the distance of 18-20 feet in about 1.5-2 seconds.
Throw and run, throw and run.

[deckeda]

I was told the proper response is to shoot the aggressor, multiple times. “Admirable,” even.

But unfortunately, now the knife wielder will go to court instead.

[RAMd®d]

I was told the proper response is to shoot the aggressor, multiple times. “Admirable,” even.

You should have been told that a proper armed response is to shoot until the aggression stops.


But unfortunately, now the knife wielder will go to court instead.


More unfortunately, a good Samaritan goes to his grave, and another, through his good fortune, escapes the same fate.

That an armed violent dies at the scene or lives to go to court is not my concern.

That innocent people don't risk death or injury, is.

[deckeda]

You should have been told that a proper armed response is to shoot until the aggression stops.

I agree but instead I was lead to believe the number of bullets doesn't matter/is irrelevant which is an insult.


More unfortunately, a good Samaritan goes to his grave, and another, through his good fortune, escapes the same fate.

That's a guessed outcome. And actually, in this case here, didn't happen. On the other hand if a gun was present it's much more likely someone would be dead, which clearly doesn't matter to you.


That an armed violent dies at the scene or lives to go to court is not my concern.

Interesting. So, death is interchangeable with justice, actually it's better because it skips the pesky due process and judgment. Duly noted.


That innocent people don't risk death or injury, is.

The uncontrollable and non-preventable outcome all this is based on.

[RAMd®d]

I agree but instead I was lead to believe...


That's your mistake, not mine.

I did not mislead you.



That's a guessed outcome. And actually, in this case here, didn't happen.


Are we talking about the same incident?

From pRICE's post:

A good Samaritan was stabbed and killed when he attempted to intervene in an an attack that started as an argument Friday morning at a Berwyn grocery store, authorities said.

Humberto Guzman, 32, of Justice, died following the incident, which occurred at approximately 10:15 a.m. at Valle's Produce, 6323 Cermak Rd...

Another person tried to stop the man, and that person was also stabbed in the stomach, police said.

I say the man is lucky he wasn't killed, as was the first victim.

True, that it was a matter of luck is a guessed outcome, but I'll go with that any way.



On the other hand if a gun was present it's much more likely someone would be dead, which clearly doesn't matter to you.


You are not paying any attention whatsoever, and are clearly pushing your own agenda.

Someone was dead, and another injured.

It matters to me when anyone dies but you assume otherwise, no doubt based on the number of times I've played the Darwin Award card, or made light of anybody's death mentioned here, or someone should be shot, killed, hung, lynched, beaten, etc., right?

Or maybe it's all my comments about how we should execute everybody on death row because of how much it costs to keep them alive during appeals.

Full disclosure, I may have said five or six times that I believe in capital punishment.

For the record, in case you somehow perceive otherwise, capital punishment is the purview of the courts.



Interesting. So, death is interchangeable with justice, actually it's better because it skips the pesky due process and judgment. Duly noted.


Your note taking skills need work, as does your objectivity.

And you again chose to infer what makes you happy.

I have corrected people here a few times who want to believe police are trained to shoot to kill.

That's the stuff of Occupying Forces conspiracy theorists.

It is to shoot to stop, not kill.

If that were not the case, there would be extensive firearms training in shooting to the head, much more likely to result in death than injury.

The focus is to stop a threat of injury or death to life and limb of a victim of victims.

There is no training that suggests that excessive force is appropriate.

It's about risk assessment, to stop a threat.

It's not about dispensing justice, that's for courts.

If a suspect dies because of an officer's just response, he dies.

If he lives, he goes to court.

It's not the officer's job to make sure he gets to court, it's to make sure the victim is safe.

If the victim is safe and the crook goes to court, that great.

If the the crook is safe and the victim isn't, then not so great.

I'm not going to address this any more, as it will probably get pulled or banished to The Other Side, and I'm sure that wasn't pRICE's wish.

Speculation on my part, but WTH.

[chopper]

I always remember that final scene in "STAND BY ME" when it is revealed CHRIS who made it out, did all the right things, got stabbed in the neck trying to break up a fight and bled to death on the floor of the entryway to a fast food restaurant.

https://youtu.be/l7r-R61W1DQ