I went to the local Walmart SuperCenter this afternoon to get a pump sprayer. They had 2 sizes to choose from & I managed to collect about $100 worth of goods before I got to the checkout line. All but one of the self service registers had a sign stating CASH ONLY & there were only 2 registers with a live person, each with a very long line. I got in one & prepared to wait. After 12 minutes, I was next up when some unknown register problem occurred, causing lights to flash & managers to scurry about. That's when I decided I really didn't need any of the items in my basket badly enough to suffer a possible aneurism while waiting so I got out of line & left the store. This has happened 3 out of the last 5 times I've been to that Walmart this year.

Their standard of customer service might be good enough for the unwashed masses, but I'll never do business with a store again that makes it so difficult to pay & get out with a minimum of fuss.

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If you complain enough, they'll sometimes give you cash (store credit) to shut up.

id never set foot in my walmart, but thats a safety issue more than anything

It’s not the tube-tops as much as the weeping bed sores

I recomend staying out of stores that are comitted to the downfall of the US.

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In tha 360. MRF User Map

Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
I recomend staying out of stores that are comitted to the downfall of the US.

What he said.

Walmart has destroyed small business in every single place lands.

I swore off stores that end with Mart quite a while ago. Problem is, I'm having to add non-Mart stores to the list as well. Home Depot near me is pretty painful (don't ever go to a home improvement store on a weekend)...but then again, Home Depot was just written up in a big article in BusinessWeek a couple weeks ago for having awful service. The grocery stores near me, for the most part, can't keep sale items in stock for more than the first day of their flyer, and if they have more than 2 checkout lanes open it's a miracle. SuperTarget is getting more and more of my money each month.

I like Target. Their stores are clean and neat vs. the dump that Walmart is.

> I like Target. Their stores are clean and neat...

I've been in stink hole Targets.

Quote
DaviDC.
After 12 minutes, I was next up when some unknown register problem occurred, causing lights to flash & managers to scurry about.

Cashier hit the jackpot?

Anyway, what you describe is the extra price you pay, the price that *isn't* listed on the price tags on the items.

You, and only you, can determine what that time and aggravation is worth to you.

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In the words of DharmaDog: "it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion."

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

I have a Target tattoo near my. . .

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_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

WalMart IS evil. They have pretty much bought the local government in my town. They wanted to open a second one. The local citizens, mostly wealthier denizens, mounted a massive effort to repel them. They had a campaign, petitions with hundreds or thousands of names trying to stop them from tearing out an orchard and re-zoning the land to allow Wallyworld to move in. The local city council essentially said "we hear you loud and clear, construction starts tomorrow." They view this as a coup for their administration because it represents about 100 jobs in our small town. Yeah! 100 non full-time jobs without benefits that will keep people on medicare and in poverty while putting local business out of their misery.

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MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#

I like to spend more money at other stores. tic

I always forget and go into a grocery store on the 1st of the month. Guess what? All the welfare cards just got replenished.

i worked at target 20 years ago -- the 1st of every month was known as "mothers day" -- entire childrens & toy department would be trashed

We get most of what we need at Costco, Stop & Shop, Amazon and Newegg.

Quote
John B.
I swore off stores that end with Mart quite a while ago.

How 'bout "Depot"?

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Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.

the lines in Mal-Wart are always long & slow. ALWAYS, even in 24-hour stores at 3am.
i see people with their little kids there at 1am. WTF? some American values. kids don't need to be up at a store at 1am, sorry if i sound all "conservative" or traditional.

Quote
ztirffritz
Yeah! 100 non full-time jobs without benefits that will keep people on medicare and in poverty while putting local business out of their misery.

ztirffritz - Being on medicare has nothing to do with your economic status, but rather your age. I am enjoying a financially comfortable retirement thanks to Big Oil but when I turned 65 last year I went on Medicare whether I wanted to or not. I think you meant Medicaid rather than Medicare.

By the way, I shop at Wal-Mart and Sam's. They're convenient, they have a good selection of goods, service is good, and the price is usually right. I also shop at Home Depot.

"I swore off stores that end with Mart quite a while ago."

What did Apu ever do to you?

I too avoid shopping at stores that are quite literally destroying the American standard of living right before my eyes. It's a shame that people can't see how far the quality of life in this country has fallen in just the last 10 years.

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chas_m




[crawlingfromtheusa.blogspot.com] <-- Moving to Canada blog

I too shop at Walmart for a lot of the stuff I buy. Maybe my Walmart isn't the norm...it is clean, I never have to wait to check out more than a few minutes, it is open 24 hours( I hate the mom and pop shops that are open 9 to 5... how am I supposed to buy anything from them durring those hours? I am working!), and the staff is friendly. That might be the midwestern values, pride, and hospitality coming through even to Walmart.

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C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When you take away a worker's dignity with what Walmart pays they have no reason to to give dignity to customers.

Walmart pricing causes US jobs to be sent overseas due to their enormous buying power and pressuring of manufacturers to a country such as China that doesn't pay health insurance, no environmental regard and laughable laws protecting workers.

22 states are currently proposing legislation that would force
companies such as Walmart to provide better health care to their
employees. [news.yahoo.com]

Walmart costs US taxpayers billion each year in medicaid costs. They
make PROFITS in t he billions. That is NET not GROSS yet the CEO was
begging Governors to help them with health costs, pathetic.

Walmart reluctantly or does not carry legal birth control even if they
are the only pharamcy in town yet they carry ER pills such as @#$%&.
[ledger.southofboston.com]

Walmart typically tops state assistance programs like in WV costing
taxpayers. [wvgazette.com]

Walmart contibuted 20 billion to the record US trade deficit with
China in 2005 of 200 billion.

Walmart has to pay $172 million to workers they denied breaks to
[money.cnn.com]

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Join team 38910 folding! [folding.stanford.edu] multi cpu-[calxalot.homeip.net]

"Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."

facts just piss off those who refuse to see the truth pRON.

I nearly got in a fight last time I was there. Cannot find thread. Something to do with "White Trash" being shouted. I still think poor people need them.

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Da Good Life

I guess I can say proudly that I have never been inside one of these establishments. Hopefully I never will.

Home Depot on the weekends can be a bad idea, especially if you actually need help with something. Just picking up a few 2x4's and waiting in line can be hard enough, so hopefully you can find whatever it is you need on your own.

I shop infrequently but I will not hesitate to go to Wal-Mart. It has become the international immigrant shopping choice. Target is a lot more white when I have been there. Costco probably even more so. But, I am not turned off enough to not shop there.

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Quote
mikebw
I guess I can say proudly that I have never been inside one of these establishments. Hopefully I never will.

Home Depot on the weekends can be a bad idea, especially if you actually need help with something. Just picking up a few 2x4's and waiting in line can be hard enough, so hopefully you can find whatever it is you need on your own.

I cant imagine buying paint there...its always a zoo at the paint counter. Local mom and pop for me for paint!

Also, no one ever mentions how Wal Mart and others affect our quality of life outside of work. WalMart being 24 hours in most locales has other retailers thinking they should do the same. WalMart pretty much dictates how things will be done and others follow. If they open on holidays-so do others, they stay open late-so do others, they dont pay holiday pay on Easter (or other holiday)-neither do the others. This I think is a huge problem because the deck is stacked in their favor, while the rest of us get stuck adapting to a Walmart style culture. I work for FedEx Kinkos, and I see it all the time. My company feels that we are so important that we need to be open on almost all holidays in lots of areas. Its corporate greed vs. family values...if you're closed on a holiday, people will either shop before or after the holiday. After reading this, I'm not just speaking of holiday related items...hopefully you get the gist.

Stavs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2006 07:18AM by Stavs.

Quote
pRON aHOLIC
When you take away a worker's dignity with what Walmart pays

You've just invented, out of thin air, a cause and effect.

Are you saying that people are forced to work for Wal-Mart no matter what, and therefore endure the pay and therefore Wal-Mart is removing their dignity?

You can create things out of thin air, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily right or true.

How about people with no dignity or sense of self-worth, who are that way through no fault of Wal-Mart, now have a place to work?

No one is putting a gun to anyone's head and telling anyone either to work for or shop at Wal-Mart. If anything, Wal-Mart has simply brought out pieces of human nature and behavior that you'd rather not acknowledge. So rather than help the people--including using tough love to get them out of their hole--you shoot Wal-Mart for daring to expose to you those people and their behaviors and attitudes?

Wal-Mart is the sum total of (a) people who are willing to work there, and (b) people who are willing to shop there. As many formerly large corporations have discovered, anything can upset that balance. (A&P, anyone?) People can refuse to work there, and people can refuse to shop there.

But people do work there, and people do shop there. Instead of demonizing Wal-Mart, why don't you go down to one and stand outside and try to get the workers and the shoppers to understand the ramifications of their behavior?

You want to control people by taking away a choice. Sure, it may be a bad choice for the world in the long run--but it's a legal choice. Change the behavior that makes the choice, not the choice itself. Change the people. Don't take away their freedom to be asshats and idiots who ruin their own lives. Show them a better way--the world will be much better off in the long run.

If you show them the better way, you're teaching them to fish. If you shut down Wal-Mart, you're merely giving them a fish. Wal-Mart II will pop up in its place, ready to serve the perceived needs of those people who don't know better.

In other words, people are allowed to be stupid. See my .sig below.

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---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

OK, from the report on this page:
[www.macintouch.com]

"MacInTouch reader Ken Tidwell offered insights on the issue of iPod factory conditions"

read further down to see a common problem in Chinese factories:

"Or how about the hundreds of small factories that hire and never pay. The worker joins up, and after the first month is told things are bad, and they will have to wait one more month...and then the same thing the next month. After 3 months, the worker leaves without being paid and another takes her place. The Chinese govt. started hot-lines so that workers can blow the whistle on these types, but with so many of them, one wonders if the tide will ever turn."

Mal-Wart is one of the biggest importers of Chinese goods, always looking for the lowest price. how to get a low price? buy from suppliers that don't pay their workers. (i'm making a logical assumption here)

I am no Wal-Mart fan, and there are some legitimate gripes about the company, but the sad fact is that Home Depot and Lowe's have put the local hardware store out of business, and before them Safeway and SuperFresh put the local grocer out of business, and before them Woolworth's put the local variety store out of business.

My mother recently described how supermarkets would move into an area, price everything extremely low, then once the local grocers went under the prices would rise since there was no longer any competition.

But because we have all grown up with supermarkets, we don't find it a bit sad that there aren't any mom and pop grocers on the corner.

I don't happen to like Wal-Mart myself, but it is funny how they and McDonalds have become lightning rods for our anxieties.

Wal-Mart has economic power like no other retailer ever has, $tevie. Woolworth's never had the global command on wholesale pricing like the 800lb guerilla that is W-M, nor did the Woolworth family gain such a mind-boggling amount of personal wealth on the backs of underpaid workers.

read one tale here:
[www.larouchepub.com]

Quote
$tevie
but the sad fact is that Home Depot and Lowe's have put the local hardware store out of business

Nope. Home Depot and Lowe's merely opened their doors. It's stupid people who put the local hardware store out of business.

Stupid consumers, and also stupid local hardware store owners--who had to adapt or die. They didn't adapt, for whatever reason, so they died.

But the local hardware store down the street from me is absolutely thriving. The reason: Home Depot and Lowe's. The local guy offers goods and services that the big box places can't. It isn't that I'm never going to the big box guys, but I guarantee you I'm going to the local guy first. He adapted. He thrived.

Quote

But because we have all grown up with supermarkets, we don't find it a bit sad that there aren't any mom and pop grocers on the corner.

We have several. Sure, some of them didn't work out--but others did. They compete, easily. It's not as black and white as some people think.

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---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

And Wal-Mart has become the leader in how a lot of other companies treat their employees including payscale and benefits.

For the first half of the last century, the railroad industry set the standard for wages and benefits. Post war the auto industry took the banner, but corruption and greed from corporate and union got out of hand and made it an impossible leader to follow.

Wal-Mart filled the void and now an increasing number of companies, including such giants a BMW USA, are using "long-term" temps to fill jobs that would have once been filled by workers with benefits. These are not temporary positions, just positions which will be refilled every couple of years. These jobs are not entrees to full-time employment.

It is different than hardware, grocery and other businesses which have had to compete with corporate giants. There are still many local hardware stores which do quite well. Grocers have had to go nitch market to survive, organic for example, but quite a few have.

Locally owned department stores, or general stores are pretty much gone.

Wal-mart is doing all it can in Congress and the marketpalce to kill small business, which is in the long run killing our economy.

Time to revisit Distributivism. Local ownership, local responsibility.

Quote
incognegro
Wal-Mart has economic power like no other retailer ever has, $tevie. Woolworth's never had the global command on wholesale pricing like the 800lb guerilla that is W-M

And yet, they can do no more with that power than open their doors for business.

The rest is up to the consumer. See my .sig below.

If people are going to be so focused on the amount of money they must spend to acquire something, and not pay a bit of attention to anything else (the miserable drive, the miserable lines, the crummy store, the crummy store personnel, the fact that they're turning their backs on their former local community partners), then that's not Wal-Mart's fault. It's the fault of the people who are doing this.

Beat on the people. Don't beat on the company that comes up with a business model and executes it. That company is not guaranteed any success.

Wal-Mart is simply tapping into basic human emotion and behavior. See my .sig below.

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

With so much disdcussion of Walmart in these forums we should have a "Walmart: Love Them or Hate Them" sticky.

Stavs

elmo3, you seem to be arguing my point even though you think you are arguing against it. I didn't literally mean these stores put the other stores out of business, I am using short hand because I don't have an hour to craft an epistle.

Also, blaming everything in the world on people's stupidity is beginning to seem like the only idea you can bring to the table. I think you have been to that well a little too often for it to mean anything at this point.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2006 10:36AM by $tevie.

Quote
$tevie
Also, blaming everything in the world on people's stupidity is beginning to seem like the only idea you can come up with when people are discussing things. I think you have been to that well a little too often for it to mean anything at this point.

When it's true, you can't deny it.

People want to blame Wal-Mart, when Wal-Mart can't force its customers to behave in any given way. All they can do is try to sell themselves as being good for the consumer--and it's a stupid consumer that buys into that, or anything like that, without getting or considering all the facts. (The same goes for car sales; it's not that salesmen are scum, it's that people are stupid. They just hate to admit to themselves or the world that they did something stupid like fall for that guy's line, so they demonize the guy who spoke the line, as if to say "How dare he tap into my stupidity!")

People get what they deserve. Beans are two cents cheaper at Wal-Mart than at my friendly local grocery store! HEY, I'M GOING TO WAL-MART!!! SCREW THE LOCAL GUY!!! WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS?!

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---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

elmo3 mantra'd "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."

I don't. Witness elections, riots, stoning of "witches", etc.

elmo3: "And yet, they can do no more with that power than open their doors for business. "

not true. their behind-the-scenes power broking goes beyond simply opening their doors for business. they have forced US plants out of business by demanding lower wholesale pricing, therefore bringing more Chinese-imports into our country. this weakens our economy in the long run.

"stupid people" aren't necessarily stupid because it takes digging to find out about these practices.

I'm done arguing about this, we just have different viewpoints. I choose to vote with my wallet, and that's by not going to W-M, and trying to educate others about their practices so they can make informed decisions.

Peace!

When you take away a worker's dignity with what Walmart pays they have no reason to to give dignity to customers.

I disagree completely.

The "They don't pay me well so I don't have to treat you well" argument stinks. Treating people courteously is not a matter of hourly wage.

I don't shop at Wal-Mart, though there are two fairly close. I have been to Home Depot and Office Depot. No Loew's near me. I'm lucky enough to have a great hardware store close by that can handle all of my needs.

There are no Mom n Pop grocery stores anywhere near my area except for one store that doesn't handle much in the way of "American" food.

We had a little local market just down the street, a block and a half away, when I was a wee lad. Great people, family owned. They tolerated me hanging out from time to time, asking them "What's THIS stuff?!).

Wal-Mart wanted to open a third store in the area, but the city shot it down, due no small part to opposition from the citizenry.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

Quote
Stavs
With so much disdcussion of Walmart in these forums we should have a "Walmart: Love Them or Hate Them" sticky.

Stavs

No. It should be titled "Wal-Mart: Be Ignorant Of Their Destruction Of US And Like Their Low Prices, or Be Informed And Hate Them.

---

In tha 360. MRF User Map

Those who say Walmart operates lawfully and fairly are living in ignorance. They would rather pay labor law fines than operate under the law.

They are the embodiment of corporate greed at all costs and the Walton family members are modern day Robber Barons.

Walmart's path of destruction over 20 years and their empowerment of China will be this country's downfall. It has already begun.

Hate America? Shop at Walmart.

---

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Join team 38910 folding! [folding.stanford.edu] multi cpu-[calxalot.homeip.net]

heres a great article from a few years ago from Fast Company Magazine -- insightful

[www.fastcompany.com]

one short excerpt

"Wal-Mart is not just the world's largest retailer. It's the world's largest company--bigger than ExxonMobil, General Motors, and General Electric. The scale can be hard to absorb. Wal-Mart sold $244.5 billion worth of goods last year. It sells in three months what number-two retailer Home Depot sells in a year. And in its own category of general merchandise and groceries, Wal-Mart no longer has any real rivals. It does more business than Target, Sears, Kmart, J.C. Penney, Safeway, and Kroger combined."

Hi everyone,

Just want to point out that local mom and pop type shops aren't the blessing some of you are trying to push on everyone. I've gone to many and walked out in disgust because of the lack of selection, negative attitude and prices that significantly higher than other stores. It's to the point that I refuse to go to many of them.

Consider... I can understand a more limited selection. It's a small store. They can't offer the same number of products as the big players. That's fine. However, I'm going to face a limited selection of goods then at least offer me something to make up for it.

A negative attitude is unnacceptable under any circumstances. A negative attitude in a store that has a smaller selection of products and higher prices is that much worse. If mom and pop shops wants to stop losing customers to Walmart (and otehr big box stores), then they need to lose the attitude. Fast.

I can understand higher prices. Mom and pop stores just don't have the buying power of a Walmart. However, there is a point where I have to choose between paying a higher price and the amount of dollars in my wallet.

A few pennies here and there, who cares. When it turns into fifty cents, a dollar, or more, then I have to decide just how much I'm willing to pay in my efforts to support the smaller store. It adds up. Quickly.

So, yes, I prefer to support small, local stores. However, they are definitely not always a shining sample of good business. That's why I go to only a select few of them when it's appropriate.

BTW, one thing that is often forgotten is that many of the products offered at big box stores like Wallyworld are _the same exact product_ as those sold at local mom and pop shops.

Robert

The women at Target (customers & employees) are much better looking.

What more do you need?

Quote
pRON aHOLIC
Those who say Walmart operates lawfully and fairly are living in ignorance. They would rather pay labor law fines than operate under the law.

Then change the law.

If the fine that you pay costs less than the benefit you derive from breaking the law, and there is no other consequence to breaking the law, then you break the law.

It's a simple equation. Don't make laws out to be something mystical. Legislators often make laws with no teeth, or with so few teeth they're easily ignored.

So change the law. You're the people; change the law. Make it difficult to impossible for Wal-Mart to engage in practices that you don't like.

---

---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: &amp;quot;it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion.&amp;quot;

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson

Quote
elmo3
So change the law. You're the people; change the law. Make it difficult to impossible for Wal-Mart to engage in practices that you don't like.

What color is the sky in your world?

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Quote
elmo3
So change the law. You're the people; change the law. Make it difficult to impossible for Wal-Mart to engage in practices that you don't like.

You sound like a lobbyist. "We're not breaking the law! If it was illegal, we wouldn't do it!"

Meanwhile, they are buying off every politician to make sure the laws remain in their favor.

I had never been inside a Mal-Wart until a couple of months ago when the folks we were driving w/ stopped in an outlying area to pick up something there that they knew was cheaper. I called Mrs. Buzz and told her we were stopped at a Mal-Wart, and she told me to go inside and get Baby Buzz some socks and underwear... not gonna ever try that experience again, once was too much.

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Sometimes it is what it is...
and then there's times when it's really better.



==