[apnews.myway.com]

'Three Panamanian men were on their way home after a night of fishing, happy with their success, when the motor on their small open boat rattled and quit, leaving them adrift in sight of land, but too far out for their cell phones to work.
With nothing left to eat but the fish they caught and a few gallons of water, they drifted for 16 days, more than 100 miles from home, before they thought they must be saved.
Adrian Vasquez, 18, saw a huge white ship coming toward them. He waved a red sweater to get their attention, reaching high over his head, and dropping it low to his knees. Though he was near death, the skipper of the little panga, Elvis Oropeza Betancourt, 31, joined in, waving an orange life jacket.
"Tio, look what's coming over there," Vasquez recalled saying in an interview Thursday with The Associated Press. "We felt happy, because we thought they were coming to rescue us."
The ship didn't stop, and the fishing boat drifted another two weeks before it was found. By then, Vasquez's two friends had died.
"I said, 'God will not forgive them,'" Vasquez recalled. "Today, I still feel rage when I remember that."
That same day, March 1, birdwatchers with powerful spotting scopes on the promenade deck of the luxury cruise ship Star Princess saw a little boat adrift miles away. They told ship staff about the man desperately waving a red cloth.
On Thursday, Princess Cruises, based in Santa Clarita, Calif., said a preliminary investigation showed that passengers' reports that they had spotted a boat in distress never made it to Capt. Edward Perrin or the officer on duty.'

Quote

Barred from going to the bridge herself to notify the ship's officers, Meredith said she told a Princess Cruises sales representative what they had seen, and he assured her he passed the news on to crew.

The birdwatchers said they even put the representative on one of the spotting scopes so he could see for himself.

Meredith went to her cabin and noted their coordinates from a TV feed from the ship, booted up her laptop and emailed the U.S. Coast Guard what she had seen. She said she hoped someone would get the message and help.

She sent a copy to her son. When she returned to the promenade deck, she could still see the boat.

But nothing happened. The ship kept going. And the little boat with the waving men disappeared.

I wonder what happened to the info she sent to the Coast Guard.

Quote
GGD



I wonder what happened to the info she sent to the Coast Guard.

From another article that is still horribly bereft of info, it seems they may have sent a web message to the webmaster of the website.
[www.miamiherald.com]

Why the passengers who saw the people in the boat went down below to report to a sales manager makes no sense. That would be like calling a plumber when you can't start your car.


Bon Voyage



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2012 04:57AM by billb.

Every single lost-at-sea book has several stories like this. The ocean is vast, ships are staffed to avoid collisions at sea, not to identify rescue opportunities, and I'm sorry but passengers on cruise ships are often drunk and not as a rule credible or trained lookouts.

So it is not really a surprise to me that information from the one passenger who seems to have been on the ball never got to the bridge.

The fault here is with the fishing boat. Operating beyond the range of your communication abilities is foolish and bridge to bridge VHF radios cost less than a fishing pole or a day's worth of fuel. They could have been rescued within hours of breakdown, maybe within minutes.

tenders, that is one of the worst examples of blame the victim I have ever read. How far do they have to pack their little boat with safety gear before blaming the cruise ship? These are people who have so little money that they resorted to fishing in order to earn a few bucks!

Then, to go and tar birdwatchers with powerful binoculars and spotting scopes on tripods as drunken partygoers? Sheesh.

Quote
billb


Why the passengers who saw the people in the boat went down below to report to a sales manager makes no sense. That would be like calling a plumber when you can't start your car.

According to this NPR article, one of the birders did talk to the bridge:

[www.npr.org]

Quote

"He called the bridge and I sort of talked through the story," she says. "And I was trying to have a sense or urgency in my voice — and tell them that the boat was in distress, and they were trying to get our attention."

Regardless of how poorly prepared the fishing boat was, the Cruise Ships crew was told that there was a ship in distress. They had an obligation to investigate. It would have taken two minutes for them to look thru binoculars to confirm or deny the situation.

Quote
macphanatic
Regardless of how poorly prepared the fishing boat was, the Cruise Ships crew was told that there was a ship in distress. They had an obligation to investigate. It would have taken two minutes for them to look thru binoculars to confirm or deny the situation.

There is an unwritten law at sea that we as captains/@#$%& give aid when ever possible and or notify the
Coast Guard or other Rescue agencies.

"The unwritten law of the sea requires that a mariner come to the aid of a mariner in distress."

---

“Stay Hungry Stay Foolish"
Steve Jobs

"There are only two mantras yum and yuk mine is yum "
Bernard Mickey Wrangle<>Tom Robbins<> "Still Life With Woodpecker"

"There is a fine line between a rut and a groove"
G.D. Kittredge III

"

Quote
IronMac
tenders, that is one of the worst examples of blame the victim I have ever read. How far do they have to pack their little boat with safety gear before blaming the cruise ship? These are people who have so little money that they resorted to fishing in order to earn a few bucks!

Then, to go and tar birdwatchers with powerful binoculars and spotting scopes on tripods as drunken partygoers? Sheesh.

Sorry, just my perspective, following 500 days underway during four years of sea duty with the Navy, mostly on the bridge as officer of the deck, and including one rescue of a small disabled Vietnamese fishing boat that was truly lost at sea...and which was spotted by lookouts.

To answer your question, if the cruise ship ignored a radio request for help or the deck watch failed to see a flare or smoke on the water or any of the dozens of other distress signals, then I'd blame them. The ocean is so vast, to have not seen a guy waving in the distance (a very vague action) or to have not acted on a passenger's unqualified observation is tragic to be sure but not negligent in any way. Coastal waters around the world are filled with thousands of small fishing boats, some of which are handled professionally and some of which are not, and the responsibility to safely operate and navigate tens of thousands of tons of a cruise ship with thousands of lives aboard is not to be taken lightly -- as we've seen in Greece, where a small, unplanned course change resulted in a disaster (and negligently so, in my opinion). The seaman's code of offering help to the distressed is very real but a vessel like that cannot go around chasing every stump in the water in case somebody might be clinging to it.

There is no way around the fact that the guys in the boat were not experienced enough or properly equipped to be where they were. The sea is unforgiving about this in ways that land is not, and that is not the cruise ship's fault.

If you disagree having been to sea I would be interested in your perspective. If you disagree not having been to sea I would encourage you to read Stephen Callahan's short but gripping book "Adrift," which he endured alone, or William Butler's similar book "60 Days Adrift," which he went through with his wife. Both were experienced mariners and neither felt particular ill will towards the many ships that passed them during their ordeals, some at terrifyingly and heartbreakingly close quarters.

with Rudy

Where does Carnival Corp. recruit crewmembers, reformed Somali pirates perhaps?

---

Quote
IronMac

Quote
billb


Why the passengers who saw the people in the boat went down below to report to a sales manager makes no sense. That would be like calling a plumber when you can't start your car.

According to this NPR article, one of the birders did talk to the bridge:

[www.npr.org]

Quote

"He called the bridge and I sort of talked through the story," she says. "And I was trying to have a sense or urgency in my voice — and tell them that the boat was in distress, and they were trying to get our attention."

Meredith went inside to try to place a call to the ship's bridge, to alert the crew about what they'd seen. The only crew member she could find was with the ship's sales team.

"He called the bridge and I sort of talked through the story," she says. "And I was trying to have a sense or urgency in my voice — and tell them that the boat was in distress, and they were trying to get our attention."


Meredith never talked to anyone on the bridge. the sales person did. Maybe. The sales person talked to somebody somewhere.

There was a fleet of fishing vessels there at the time. Where's the outrage that not one of them "came to the rescue " ???


Not one of the boats in the area at the time determined an emergency either.


This is another poorly written cluelessly interpreted news article(s) from little more than preliminary reports.




You can go over to cruisecritic and read other passenger's eyewitness accounts.
Many that were actually on the ship at the time saw the same unsensational events - a couple fishing boats waving bon voyage.
Which doesn't mean a whole lot either.




Except that, at the time, no one was apparently able to confirm an emergency existed.

So far.

If there is anyone to blame, then it is the US Coast Guard.

If they were in the area, this would have been a perfect time to test sea skimming kinetic projectiles or
even the rumored portable rail gun.

I’m seriously bothered that defense opportunities, untraceable in international waters, were not utilized.

They could have at least given them some MREs for some fresh shrimp for the crew of made them scrape
barnacles before keel hauling them under the NDAA.

(on the way to Gitmo of course)

Quote
tenders

Sorry, just my perspective, following 500 days underway during four years of sea duty with the Navy, mostly on the bridge as officer of the deck, and including one rescue of a small disabled Vietnamese fishing boat that was truly lost at sea...and which was spotted by lookouts.

Ya think surface and SA radar is just a little more capable these days, than 1975-1976?

Cruise ship captains will capsize a ship with thousands on board to wave at a pal, despite advanced
sonar and knowledge of ship channels, but we’re to believe a crew member, who was “management” couldn’t get to the deck by phone?

Every cruise I’ve been on, I could have bitched at the Captain myself at the formal dinner with the Captain
(or congratulated him on discovering his ship can do 70 knots to get away from pirates, when a twin reactor
nuke carrier of a slightly shorter length can only do “35+” !! (wink wink)

You’re wearing a uniform, not a white server coat, I have no doubt about your ability to get thru the hierarchy.

Cruise ships aren’t military vessels, and half the crew (if not 90% of it that isn’t a Steward, doesn’t even
speak English… When I first moved to FL in ’96, I got to see one of the first RCCL “Of The Seas” ships
first hand, for the AS400 deployment (that’s PowerPC 604 to YOU) for running all ships stores and $$ ops.

The quantity of people on board that are uniformed RCCL employees is very small. If they were in ”sales”
they were part of the hierarchy that makes the cruise ship money, and that means they have access, including
getting a walk-down Captain “handshake” during a cruise, to settle ruffled feathers.

Try getting Admiral Moorer to do that when Schlessinger/Rumsfeld was SecDef.

Quote
billb

Quote
IronMac



Meredith went inside to try to place a call to the ship's bridge, to alert the crew about what they'd seen. The only crew member she could find was with the ship's sales team.

"He called the bridge and I sort of talked through the story," she says. "And I was trying to have a sense or urgency in my voice — and tell them that the boat was in distress, and they were trying to get our attention."

.

We're supposed to believe Meredith left the PROMENADE DECK , the deck with all the life saving gear, the deck with the most clearly marked for emergency use only emergency phones, a 24/7 security guard with a 9mm pistol strapped to his hip, maintenence crew staging maintenance, one of the easiest to fall overboard decks with the second largest set of both plainclothes and uniformed ship personnel after the LIDO deck , went INSIDE where all the bars . theatre , drinking and entertaining lounges are ( and where off duty ship officers are second most likely to be found after the Lido deck ( where they eat ) - they're not cruising the pools checking out the 75 year old wrinkled prunes in bikinis ), past dozens of plain sight courtesy phones and went down one deck to the CASINO, past the HELP DESK and PURSER'S DESK to find a sales person who books cruises ?
SERIOUSLY ??


I've been on the Emerald Princess which is a sister ship to the Star Princess.
Meredith and her friend(s) may most certainly have seen what they saw, but what she claims to have done afterwards is embarrassing to the rest of this planet's inhabitants.
People panic and do stupid things, but she should be hiding under a rock in shame not attention whoring.

Oh look outside the window, there's a woman being grabbed
They've dragged her to the bushes and now she's being stabbed
Maybe we should call the cops and try to stop the pain
But Monopoly is so much fun, I'd hate to blow the game
And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends

Phil Ochs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2012 11:44AM by Acer.

Folks, you can argue all you want about the "finer points"... here's one inescapable fact;

There was a vessel inside their visual horizon, easily detected on whatever radar they were using... and no one one the bridge "put eyeballs" on it with a pair of binoculars.
That, all by itself, is sloppy seamanship - I don't care what other navigation aids you have!

If they'd LOOKED - they probably would have seen a vessel in distress.

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

Quote
Paul F.
Folks, you can argue all you want about the "finer points"... here's one inescapable fact;

There was a vessel inside their visual horizon, easily detected on whatever radar they were using... and no one one the bridge "put eyeballs" on it with a pair of binoculars.

Where has that fact been confirmed ?

Someone on the bridge most certainly could have laid eyes on him and waved back.

Tooted the ship's horn, too.

Next time you're out on the ocean wave your hand or a item of clothes at the next ship and see if they do anything more than just wave bon voyage back at ya.

Me thinks a prudent @#$%& knows the difference between a wave and frenetic panic

---

“Stay Hungry Stay Foolish"
Steve Jobs

"There are only two mantras yum and yuk mine is yum "
Bernard Mickey Wrangle<>Tom Robbins<> "Still Life With Woodpecker"

"There is a fine line between a rut and a groove"
G.D. Kittredge III

"

My semen is never prudent.

Quote
billb

Quote
Paul F.
Folks, you can argue all you want about the "finer points"... here's one inescapable fact;

There was a vessel inside their visual horizon, easily detected on whatever radar they were using... and no one one the bridge "put eyeballs" on it with a pair of binoculars.

Where has that fact been confirmed ?

Someone on the bridge most certainly could have laid eyes on him and waved back.

Tooted the ship's horn, too.

Next time you're out on the ocean wave your hand or a item of clothes at the next ship and see if they do anything more than just wave bon voyage back at ya.

Uh, let's see... some putz with a birding scope could see them, so a bridge lookout with a set of quality binocs COULD SEE THEM ALSO! So could the ships radar...
And if they were NOT running their radar, then not having bridge lookouts eyeballing around is criminal negligence.

If the fishing boat was visible to passengers, there's not excuse for the bridge to have been unaware of its presence. None.

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

“Thank you for your email. Princess Cruises deeply regrets that two Panamanian men perished at sea after their boat became disabled in early March. Since we became aware of this incident, we have been investigating circumstances surrounding the claim that Star Princess failed to come to the aid of the disabled boat, after a crew member was alerted by passengers.

The preliminary results of our investigation have shown that there appeared to be a breakdown in communication in relaying the passenger’s concern. Neither Captain Perrin nor the officer of the watch were notified. Understandably, Captain Perrin is devastated that he is being accused of knowingly turning his back on people in distress. Had the Captain received this information, he would have had the opportunity to respond. “
We all understand that it is our responsibility and also the law of the sea to provide assistance to any vessel in distress, and it is not an uncommon occurrence for our ships to be involved in a rescue at sea. In fact, we have done so over 30 times in the last ten years.

We deeply regret this incident and are continuing our investigation to fully understand the circumstances.


Sincerely,

Princess Cruises
Customer Relations Specialist “
[www.npr.org]

There's a long tradition of captains ignoring distress signals out at sea. 'Schedules to keep, ya know.

'Happened to the Titanic. It comes up in the news every year on the anniversary of the sinking.

The SS Californian was close enough for their crew to see the ship's lights and distress flares. They could have been on site in an hour and they had more than enough room to rescue most of the passengers. The captain was informed about the flares almost immediately and ignored them. He even steered his ship away from the path of rescuers to avoid being recruited in the rescue operations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2012 03:32PM by Chakravartin.

Chak;
You need to do some more reading about the SS Californian, the rockets launched from the Titanic, and the truth of the situation... it was considerably more complicated, and a lot less malicious, than that.

Most of the charges against the Californian were leveled by newspapers trying to place blame.

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2012 04:11PM by Paul F..

Quote
Paul F.
Chak;
You need to do some more reading about the SS Californian, the rockets launched from the Titanic, and the truth of the situation... it was considerably more complicated, and a lot less malicious, than that.

Most of the charges against the Californian were leveled by newspapers trying to place blame.

The officially-recorded testimony from the crew of the Californian isn't enough to make a determination?

Never let it be said that I don't keep an open mind.

I'll be happy to reevaluate the case just as soon as the "misplaced" ship's log turns up and gets published.

Quote
tenders
Sorry, just my perspective, following 500 days underway during four years of sea duty with the Navy, mostly on the bridge as officer of the deck, and including one rescue of a small disabled Vietnamese fishing boat that was truly lost at sea...and which was spotted by lookouts.

To answer your question, if the cruise ship ignored a radio request for help or the deck watch failed to see a flare or smoke on the water or any of the dozens of other distress signals, then I'd blame them. The ocean is so vast, to have not seen a guy waving in the distance (a very vague action) or to have not acted on a passenger's unqualified observation is tragic to be sure but not negligent in any way. Coastal waters around the world are filled with thousands of small fishing boats, some of which are handled professionally and some of which are not, and the responsibility to safely operate and navigate tens of thousands of tons of a cruise ship with thousands of lives aboard is not to be taken lightly -- as we've seen in Greece, where a small, unplanned course change resulted in a disaster (and negligently so, in my opinion). The seaman's code of offering help to the distressed is very real but a vessel like that cannot go around chasing every stump in the water in case somebody might be clinging to it.

There is no way around the fact that the guys in the boat were not experienced enough or properly equipped to be where they were. The sea is unforgiving about this in ways that land is not, and that is not the cruise ship's fault.

If you disagree having been to sea I would be interested in your perspective. If you disagree not having been to sea I would encourage you to read Stephen Callahan's short but gripping book "Adrift," which he endured alone, or William Butler's similar book "60 Days Adrift," which he went through with his wife. Both were experienced mariners and neither felt particular ill will towards the many ships that passed them during their ordeals, some at terrifyingly and heartbreakingly close quarters.

tenders, there are so many red herrings there that I'd love to cast a net and ready some black pepper and tartar sauce.

First off, as officer of the deck and whatnot, you should recognize that there has been a communications breakdown in the chain of command. This passenger has spotted someone and reported it to a representative of the crew and company. So, what did said ship do? It certainly sounds like the message was never passed on to someone who can do anything about it. That's NOT the passenger's fault, it's the ship's company and the company.

Second, it's not a stump, it was someone that could clearly be seen waving a red shirt in a boat without an engine.

Third, it's not an area teeming with other people waving red shirts in boats with no engines.

Fourth, yes, the sea is unforgiving but that is why ships need to go out of their way to make sure that such tragedies do not happen. It's not, well, tough luck guys that you don't have this and this piece of safety equipment, I'll let Mother Nature teach you a life lesson.

Fifth, in the books that you cite, do any of the ships that passed these people buy report that they were seen and then ignored?

Quote
Chakravartin
The officially-recorded testimony from the crew of the Californian isn't enough to make a determination?

Never let it be said that I don't keep an open mind.

I'll be happy to reevaluate the case just as soon as the "misplaced" ship's log turns up and gets published.

The very same crew members being paid for their sensational stories by every paper in New York and London? The very same crew members that didn't want their sensationalized stories contradicted by the "official record"?
Like I said... too many "complications" to the story from the Californian.

The actions of the Californian captain and officers are about as reliably recorded in fact as the Kennedy Assassination - basically; don't bother trying to sort the truth from the "official record"... It may be in there somewhere, but we're not going to find it.

As for THIS case; I still maintain that all breakdowns in communication aside, the question that should be being asked is why bridge lookouts never looked at a vessel within visual range.

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

Ask Tom Hanks in "Cast Away"...

Quote
Paul F.

Quote
Chakravartin
The officially-recorded testimony from the crew of the Californian isn't enough to make a determination?

Never let it be said that I don't keep an open mind.

I'll be happy to reevaluate the case just as soon as the "misplaced" ship's log turns up and gets published.

The very same crew members being paid for their sensational stories by every paper in New York and London? The very same crew members that didn't want their sensationalized stories contradicted by the "official record"?
Like I said... too many "complications" to the story from the Californian.

The actions of the Californian captain and officers are about as reliably recorded in fact as the Kennedy Assassination - basically; don't bother trying to sort the truth from the "official record"... It may be in there somewhere, but we're not going to find it.

As for THIS case; I still maintain that all breakdowns in communication aside, the question that should be being asked is why bridge lookouts never looked at a vessel within visual range.

Do we know that that's not being looked at?

---

New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]

Modern ships don't have crew looking out through binoculars from the bridge 24/7, like they used to. Most of that function is automated, and the on watch crew is looking for alarms or other signals from radar. I've read elsewhere that this little boat was too small to be noticed by those systems, or by the ones at the cruise ship's HQ, which also monitor the ship's position and nearby marine traffic.

The best help for this boat in distress was to be noticed by people on board, and they were noticed. What happened after that appears to be the cause of this failure to give aid.

Quote
Black

Do we know that that's not being looked at?

There seemed a lack of discussion in this thread.... I have no doubt that the professional investigations will at least ask that question.

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

Quote
Lemon Drop
Modern ships don't have crew looking out through binoculars from the bridge 24/7, like they used to. Most of that function is automated, and the on watch crew is looking for alarms or other signals from radar. I've read elsewhere that this little boat was too small to be noticed by those systems, or by the ones at the cruise ship's HQ, which also monitor the ship's position and nearby marine traffic.

The best help for this boat in distress was to be noticed by people on board, and they were noticed. What happened after that appears to be the cause of this failure to give aid.

Not saying the ball was not also dropped (badly) in the communications dept.... it was. But radar or not, the Andrea Doria taught the lesson that you ALSO have someone looking out the window occasionally!
I suspect that when the final report is written on this that it's going to be labeled a "multi level failure" in command and communications.

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

A Tour of a Ship's Bridge
Written by: Finn Orfano • Edited by: Lamar Stonecypher
Published Oct 31, 2010

"""As a Mariner everybody should know the importance of the bridge, installed equipment, and different operations performed inside it essential for safe navigation. Let’s take a tour inside the bridge- the commanding station of the ship.

A ship has to navigate round the clock through different waters, at times with restriction, with changing weather and sea conditions. Communication has to be maintained during routine voyages, in restricted waters, in emergencies and for rescue operations. Various equipment, instruments, and appliances are provided for performing these functions.
The ship's bridge serves as a controlling and commanding station for the entire ship. We can control all the machinery, boiler, and ship's navigation from the bridge. This provides a common platform for the ship’s alarming and controlling station for onboard machinery.
All systems and equipment must meet IMO standards and must be approved by the administration to be installed in the bridge. Electrical and electronic equipment shall be so installed that the electromagnetic interference does not affect proper functioning of navigation systems and equipment. Safety of navigation depends on proper, efficient, and timely use of these aids. All these aids must be checked from time to time for their performance and accuracy. Errors and deviations must be logged. All navigating officers must be familiar with their use.

The common activities carried out on bridge can be broadly grouped as:

Lookout and avoidance of collision.
Control of ship’s speed and direction.
Navigation and position fixing.
Monitoring weather and sea condition.
Communication – external and internal."""

The fundamentals of prudent seamanship go beyond modern electronics and are clearly about
experience not about what anyone has read. It is about time on the water, instinct, self preservation
including times of risk. Communication between the Helm/Bridge and crew is essential to the survival
of all. As mariners we know that Rescue Operations come with the territory in fact is is part of the soul
of a prudent Mariner. There is a huge difference in what what one reads, what one posts and real time
on the water. It is sort of like missing the boat completely *(:>*

---

“Stay Hungry Stay Foolish"
Steve Jobs

"There are only two mantras yum and yuk mine is yum "
Bernard Mickey Wrangle<>Tom Robbins<> "Still Life With Woodpecker"

"There is a fine line between a rut and a groove"
G.D. Kittredge III

"






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2012 09:18PM by haikuman.