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long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: davemchine
Date: January 02, 2006 05:24PM
I went shopping for clocks today and after the fourth store I finally gave up. I had spent one and a half hours getting in and out of my car, looking thru stores, and trying to find someone to help me. All in vain. These stores do not actually employ people unless they are invisible!

I drove back to my office, looked up target.com, typed in "atomic clock" and bought three in all the matter of minutes. "buy local" indeed.

dave
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Anonymous User
Date: January 02, 2006 05:27PM
I know what you mean, some stuff, you cannont get locally with or without assistance
.
As for customer service instores, that went out the door along time ago.

Carm
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: BigGuynRusty
Date: January 02, 2006 05:30PM
FRY's has them.
If you are going to use B&M stores you have to do better research, you can't just go blindly from store to store.

BGnR
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: davemchine
Date: January 02, 2006 05:32PM
When I go to Ace Hardware they have people standing by the door, "how may I assist you?" If they can't help then they talk on their little radios and find the right person. Why is it that only one store in all of america knows how to do it right?

Dave
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: BigGuynRusty
Date: January 02, 2006 05:34PM
davemchine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I go to Ace Hardware they have people
> standing by the door, "how may I assist you?" If
> they can't help then they talk on their little
> radios and find the right person. Why is it that
> only one store in all of america knows how to do
> it right?
>
> Dave


Ace Hardware is the best!

BGnR
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: January 02, 2006 05:35PM
Ace Hardware
Staples
Menards

I can't hardly get in the door without someone trying to help me



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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: Mr645
Date: January 02, 2006 05:58PM
I hate the fact that here in South Florida all the ACE and smaller hardware and home stores are gone. I wasted 45 minutes trying to find a fan at Home Depot. Finally picking out a box, rolling it up to the register and waited in line for ten minutes wile the cashier kept calling the plumbing dept. for a price on an item not in the computer. Then, after the wait, she gets the price and the cashier manager comes over and says it's time for her break, can you please come over to register 12 sir? I just walked out.


Jon
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: rgG
Date: January 02, 2006 05:59PM
I saw those atomic clocks while I was wandering around the Target the other day.

I rarely ask for help, because I don't usually believe what they tell me anyway. Too many times the people who work in the store will tell you whatever will get you to leave the quickest.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: davemchine
Date: January 02, 2006 06:01PM
Target had about half an isle dedicated to clocks but the entire area was wiped out with just a few junkers left. I live in Yakima though. Your mileage may vary.

Dave
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: davester
Date: January 02, 2006 06:06PM
davemchine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "buy local" indeed.

"Buy local" does not apply to big box stores. All of their profits are sucked out of the community and sent elsewhere. When I buy local I go to a street like this, with businesses actually owned and operated by members of my own community, not "suits" in distant states:







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2006 06:07PM by davester.
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: elmo3
Date: January 02, 2006 06:13PM
davemchine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Target had about half an isle dedicated to clocks

Gilligan's?
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: vicrock
Date: January 02, 2006 06:44PM


>>"Buy local" does not apply to big box stores. All of their profits are sucked out of the community and sent elsewhere. When I buy local I go to a street like this, with businesses actually owned and operated by members of my own community, not "suits" in distant states:

I'm sorry davester - big box stores, chain stores, whatever you want to call them do not "suck" money out of the community.

Every one of their employees gets paid and that money circulates in the community - they pay taxes, buy groceries and gas, pay for child care, health care etc - the dollars circulate even if the "profit" goes elsewhere.

And, most of those small business owners buy their goods FAR from your community, and many of them go to the big box stores to buy goods - Costco, Sam's club, Staples, etc - or major distributors.
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: rexrzer
Date: January 02, 2006 06:52PM
I long ago gave up on local stores, except Target (my wife works there) and Fry's Electronics (I know where everything is), for mission critical shopping. But for three very, very personal gifts, I did ALL my Xmas shopping via the internet again this year. Everything got delivered on time, and the gifts were perfect for everybody--however, we had to do an exchange at REI for my daughter's Timbuk2 laptop sleeve. I ordered the wrong size, it turned out.

Our local Sears, believe it or not, has a very knowledgeable, and helpful staff in the tools and garden supply department...which I frequent most often. But every other retail establishment I can think of, especially at our malls, is lacking in the help department. Who knows where the idea of customer service went? South for the winter, and never came back methinks.

______________



What's the difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make some sense.
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: davester
Date: January 02, 2006 06:59PM
vicrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
r - big box stores, chain stores,
> whatever you want to call them do not "suck" money
> out of the community.
>
> Every one of their employees gets paid and that
> money circulates in the community - they pay
> taxes, buy groceries and gas, pay for child care,
> health care etc - the dollars circulate even if
> the "profit" goes elsewhere.
>
> And, most of those small business owners buy their
> goods FAR from your community, and many of them go
> to the big box stores to buy goods - Costco, Sam's
> club, Staples, etc - or major distributors.

Although there is an element of truth to your statement, I think you're way off the mark. The only reason the centralized big box stores exist is to transfer profits out of communities and to corporate shareholders. Big box stores for the most part pay very low wage scales and provide minimal benefits employees and local communities. They generally undercut local businesses, thereby driving them out of business and then employing the displaced workers at much reduced levels of pay and benefits (the walmart effect), thereby reducing the revenue stream into the community.

It is true that many (I would hesitate to say "most") local businesses purchase goods from far afield (though probably far less from sweatshops in China). For some kinds of goods this cannot be helped. However, they keep all of the revenue associated with distribution within the community.

The other HUGE negative factor associated with big box stores is the utter destruction of the urban/suburban cultural landscape. Many parts of the US are fast becoming utterly homogeneous and unpleasant areas where business districts have been replaced with cookie-cutter big box malls, which make the local community and local cultures irrelevant.
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: wowzer
Date: January 02, 2006 07:26PM
The big stores will pay taxes, while the local 'cash' businesses will hide cash deals, no?

That's what I keep thinking when local stores 'prefer' cash.



All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: vicrock
Date: January 02, 2006 07:48PM
davester,

We could debate this for a LONG time, and neither of us would win.

I live in a small town which has a substantial percentage of the population that feels as you do - we are a tourist economy, with little available for "real people" to purchase.

As a result, there is HUGE retail leakage to the adjoining counties, and as a result our property taxes keep escalating out of proportion to neighboring counties.

Within the last year, a Home Depot and a Wal-Mart openened in our neighboring county - sales taxes in that county for the past year increased FORTY percent! The reason for the increase was that people were able to buy what they needed without going out of county (and that people from our county went there. Sales tax increasse in our county was 2%.

People need to buy goods at reasonable prices - if you can find something you need in our county, it costs twice as much for half the quantity - no wonder people drive 40 miles to go to the "big box" stores.
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: davester
Date: January 02, 2006 08:01PM
vicrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> People need to buy goods at reasonable prices - if
> you can find something you need in our county, it
> costs twice as much for half the quantity - no
> wonder people drive 40 miles to go to the "big
> box" stores.

Yup, I understand how and why it works. I'm not so sure that we're talking about the "need to buy goods at reasonable prices" versus the "desire to get the cheapest price no matter what the societal cost". However, I feel strongly that this style of retail is destroying what local culture the US has and is making the local populaces wage slaves to fat cats. A major reason that it all works is that these big corporations can leverage 3rd world suppliers in areas with very low living standards in ways that would be considered illegal and immoral here in the US, so they have the advantage of purchasing goods at costs below "living wage" level.
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: RgrF
Date: January 02, 2006 09:55PM
The horse has left the barn on this one Dave. There's a whole generation out there (with another one coming right behind) who've never shopped but at box stores.

The area I just moved from had the "downtown" you picture 6-7 years ago. Now it consists of nail shops, karate studios and food outlets. Hardware, furniture, office supply, jewelers; all gone never to return.
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: davester
Date: January 03, 2006 02:13AM
RgrF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The horse has left the barn on this one Dave.
> There's a whole generation out there (with another
> one coming right behind) who've never shopped but
> at box stores.

Perhaps it has left the barn in some parts of the US, but not where I live or in any places in the US where I would want to visit. I think it is important to save what community-centered areas are left, and perhaps the rest can be restored someday. Boycott all those box stores is what I say!

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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: January 03, 2006 09:09AM
This is the same argument people made about supermarkets back in the past. Am I to assume, Davester, that you buy all your groceries at the corner market and never enter a Safeway or an Acme?
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: davester
Date: January 03, 2006 10:27AM
$tevie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is the same argument people made about
> supermarkets back in the past. Am I to assume,
> Davester, that you buy all your groceries at the
> corner market and never enter a Safeway or an
> Acme?

Pretty much. There aren't too many corner stores selling groceries, but I frequent the locally owned supermarket, farmer's market and a couple of specialty fishmongers, butchers and greengrocers. They have much higher quality food for not much more than the local Safeway and Albertsons (no Acme here), which I seldom visit due to their excess of packaged junk food and dearth of decent fish and meat.


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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: January 03, 2006 11:16AM
Okay then. I like my idealists to be consistent. :-D
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: davester
Date: January 03, 2006 11:48AM
Ha! Yep, it drives some of my friends and loved ones crazy, but I generally believe in "walking the walk"...though I paradoxically also believe in "moderation in all things, including moderation".
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Re: long live the internet! death to big box stores!
Posted by: wurm
Date: January 03, 2006 07:08PM
Not to be too cynical, but I find it amusing that this type of discussion is taking place on a forum derived from another forum, the inception of which was to find the best price on any given item.
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