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UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: bik
Date: July 18, 2012 11:50AM
[9to5mac.com]

Quote

BusinessInsider highlights an upcoming story from Bloomberg stating that a UK Judge has ruled that Apple must publicly state that Samsung did not copy the iPad design for its tablets. The public statements by Apple must be carried out in two ways:
Apple must post a message up on its website
Apple must post this message in British newspapers

Read more at [9to5mac.com]

This seems ridiculous to me. It's one thing for a judge to rule against you, but come on...

Makes me wish Apple could make an equally ridiculous response to this ruling. Part of me thinks Steve would have had a pretty strong response.

I wouldn't want to punish an entire nation, but there would be something satisfying about Apple taking it's ball (iPad) and going home. No iPads for you, until you sort out your judges.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: kj4btkljv
Date: July 18, 2012 11:54AM
Quote
bik
Part of me thinks Steve would have had a pretty strong response.

I'm sure Tim Cook will have just as strong a response.

Jeff
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: bik
Date: July 18, 2012 12:02PM
Quote
kj4btkljv
Quote
bik
Part of me thinks Steve would have had a pretty strong response.

I'm sure Tim Cook will have just as strong a response.

Jeff

I hope so.

Steve had a reputation for vendettas, even when they weren't necessarily best for business.

Have we seen that side of Tim yet?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 12:03PM by bik.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: (vikm)
Date: July 18, 2012 12:06PM
Let's not start withholding iPads from sale in countries that need their judges sorted out. As a US citizen, I like the fact they are currently sold here winking smiley
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: bik
Date: July 18, 2012 12:10PM
Quote
(vikm)
Let's not start withholding iPads from sale in countries that need their judges sorted out. As a US citizen, I like the fact they are currently sold here winking smiley

Hah! Excellent. patriot smiley
Let's leave it at that so we don't get locked down.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 18, 2012 12:18PM
Perhaps there are details to the rulings I'm not aware of, but for that judge to say that Samsung didn't copy Apple is ludicrous:

[peanutbuttereggdirt.com]
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 18, 2012 01:46PM
Oh please. Apple is just being a thug. They don't own rectangles.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 18, 2012 01:56PM
It's not simply about rectangles.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: freeradical
Date: July 18, 2012 02:03PM
Samsung is simply paying homage to Apple.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: silvarios
Date: July 18, 2012 02:41PM
Quote
bik
This seems ridiculous to me. It's one thing for a judge to rule against you, but come on...

Makes me wish Apple could make an equally ridiculous response to this ruling. Part of me thinks Steve would have had a pretty strong response.

I wouldn't want to punish an entire nation, but there would be something satisfying about Apple taking it's ball (iPad) and going home. No iPads for you, until you sort out your judges.

How can people keep defending Apple over such ludicrous lawsuits. They lost because the Samsung tablet in question, in person anyway, won't confuse a prospective buyer of the product. It sort of looks like the iPad until you turn it on or flip it over. Never mind the different aspect ratio and camera placement.

Look, Apple tried this nonsense in the eighties and lost almost every lawsuit (I think they won something related to the trash can). Even then, the lawsuits were ridiculous. GUI had prior art, since Apple didn't invent the GUI, how could they sue over concepts they didn't own?

Apple didn't invent the tablet, although they did much to popularize the concept. I know people who were using touchscreen phones and tablets years before the iPhone/iPad. Apple saw those products, said, "Hey, can't we offer our own spin on this tech?", and then improved on the design. Later, other companies saw Apple's designs and said "Hey, can't we build on these fantastic designs?", and then went back to work themselves. This is called progress.

As to the judge's ruling, since Apple had been beating the "Samsung rips us off" drum, I would think the ruling to inform the public of the legal outcome seems fair enough. I believe the judge also ruled that Apple could keep stating their opinion that Apple thinks Samsung ripped off the iPad, but they had to also provide notice of the ruling.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 18, 2012 03:11PM
Quote
silvarios
How can people keep defending Apple over such ludicrous lawsuits. They lost because the Samsung tablet in question, in person anyway, won't confuse a prospective buyer of the product. It sort of looks like the iPad until you turn it on or flip it over. Never mind the different aspect ratio and camera placement.
I think the problem is that it doesn't have to "confuse" a prospective buyer. By simply being close enough that it's nearly identical (look at the link I referenced earlier), a consumer may buy it as an alternative.

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silvarios
Look, Apple tried this nonsense in the eighties and lost almost every lawsuit (I think they won something related to the trash can). Even then, the lawsuits were ridiculous. GUI had prior art, since Apple didn't invent the GUI, how could they sue over concepts they didn't own?
I thought that Apple had gotten inspiration (and license) for the GUI from Xerox when Jobs, et. al. toured PARC? As I understand it, Microsoft, with whom Apple had most of the beef, actually stole lines of Mac OS code for the first version of Windows.

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silvarios
Apple didn't invent the tablet, although they did much to popularize the concept. I know people who were using touchscreen phones and tablets years before the iPhone/iPad. Apple saw those products, said, "Hey, can't we offer our own spin on this tech?", and then improved on the design. Later, other companies saw Apple's designs and said "Hey, can't we build on these fantastic designs?", and then went back to work themselves. This is called progress.
I have to disagree, "progress" is coming up with a better way. So far, none of the imitators have created a better implementation of the aggregate design characteristics of the iPad.

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silvarios
As to the judge's ruling, since Apple had been beating the "Samsung rips us off" drum, I would think the ruling to inform the public of the legal outcome seems fair enough. I believe the judge also ruled that Apple could keep stating their opinion that Apple thinks Samsung ripped off the iPad, but they had to also provide notice of the ruling.
I'd normally agree with you if this was something like the whole SCO/UNIX patent dispute in which case clearly SCO was being a patent troll (among other things). But in Apple's case I think they were legitimately defending their designs.

I just don't see how you can look at the link I posted above and not think that Samsung copied Apple's design work. To me, it's blatent.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: (vikm)
Date: July 18, 2012 03:31PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
It's not simply about rectangles.

He (and the other resident Google sympathizer) knows this. Don't waste your breath.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: bik
Date: July 18, 2012 03:44PM
Quote
silvarios
How can people keep defending Apple over such ludicrous lawsuits. They lost because the Samsung tablet in question, in person anyway, won't confuse a prospective buyer of the product. It sort of looks like the iPad until you turn it on or flip it over. Never mind the different aspect ratio and camera placement.

...

As to the judge's ruling, since Apple had been beating the "Samsung rips us off" drum, I would think the ruling to inform the public of the legal outcome seems fair enough. I believe the judge also ruled that Apple could keep stating their opinion that Apple thinks Samsung ripped off the iPad, but they had to also provide notice of the ruling.

A couple things - just my opinion:
You're saying people won't be confused by the appearance of the products. Depends on what you mean by "confused." Most prospective buyers can probably read, so they'll notice the difference between the words Apple and Samsung. However, there are plenty of people who are less tech savvy than we are here, who will look at the two side by side and say "Hmmm, these look the same but the Samsung is less - I'll get that!"

That said, I actually hate all the patent lawsuits. I think it's stupid and the laws need serious overhaul. "Black, grey, and silver color" should not be factors that can be considered in a patent, in my opinion. All these companies should knock off the lawsuits, fire their legal teams, stick to making stuff, and let the market decide.

But, for now, the laws are what they are. Apple is playing the game, and any reasonable person can see that Samsung was more than just inspired by Apple's products.

The point of my posting was regarding the seemingly punitive action of making Apple publicly state that Samsung did not copy. If the judge feels Apple didn't make their case, I'm ok with that.

But, I do believe that Apple was the innovator here, and Samsung the beneficiary of Apple's earlier work. Apple made a claim about that, and not only did the claim get shot down, but they got their collective nose rubbed in it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 03:46PM by bik.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 18, 2012 04:58PM
Quote
(vikm)
Quote
Carnos Jax
It's not simply about rectangles.

He (and the other resident Google sympathizer) knows this. Don't waste your breath.
I appreciate the advice, but hey, they're cool guys never-the-less. Sil's an old school techie, and Vision's likes the Lakers, they can't be all that bad. I suppose everyone has their grudges though. (^_^)

Quote
bik
That said, I actually hate all the patent lawsuits. I think it's stupid and the laws need serious overhaul. "Black, grey, and silver color" should not be factors that can be considered in a patent, in my opinion. All these companies should knock off the lawsuits, fire their legal teams, stick to making stuff, and let the market decide.
I have to say I kinda agree with some of this. That's why I sometimes feel on the fence about it. I guess in a world where we have rules like this, I think Apple makes a far stronger case for using them to defend their work than some of the other clowns out there. After all, Apple didn't invent the straight line, constant radius curve, "grid icons", or other such things, but they figured out ONE formula for bringing them all together in the correct proportions.

Remember, Henry Ford didn't invent the car, the Wright brothers didn't invent the airplane, and Thomas Edison didn't invent the light bulb...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 05:04PM by Carnos Jax.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: GGD
Date: July 18, 2012 05:57PM
Apple could include something at the bottom of all of their iPad web pages and ads stating something like the following.

We don't want you to be confused, the Samsung Galaxy is NOT a copy of the iPad, it is significantly different in functionality, the last thing we would want you do to is to expect that you are getting an iPad if you were to purchase a Samsung Galaxy.

It could go on to list the ways in which it is different rather than focusing on what was similar.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: Article Accelerator
Date: July 18, 2012 06:52PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Perhaps there are details to the rulings I'm not aware of, but for that judge to say that Samsung didn't copy Apple is ludicrous:

[peanutbuttereggdirt.com]

Apple should just put that link in the release.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: Article Accelerator
Date: July 18, 2012 06:57PM
Quote
silvarios
How can people keep defending Apple over such ludicrous lawsuits. They lost because the Samsung tablet in question, in person anyway, won't confuse a prospective buyer of the product.

Well then, maybe the slavishly copied packaging will do it. Or the slavishly copied cables, or even the slavishly copied frickin' charger.

Quote

Apple didn't invent the tablet, although they did much to popularize the concept.

Hmm...
Lifetime (i.e. more than 10 years) aggregate unit sales of all tablet PC makes prior to the introduction of the iPad < 1 million
Unit sales of the iPad alone since introduction 28 months ago > 70 million

Yeah, I'd say Apple "did much" to popularize the concept.

WTF.

It's really amusing to see you defend the indefensible, silvarios.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 07:05PM by Article Accelerator.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: silvarios
Date: July 18, 2012 11:08PM
Quote
bik
A couple things - just my opinion:
You're saying people won't be confused by the appearance of the products. Depends on what you mean by "confused." Most prospective buyers can probably read, so they'll notice the difference between the words Apple and Samsung. However, there are plenty of people who are less tech savvy than we are here, who will look at the two side by side and say "Hmmm, these look the same but the Samsung is less - I'll get that!"

What's funny is that competing tablets were not always cheaper. Sometimes they were the same price, sometimes they were more expensive. Apple has a great brand and great products, they really didn't need to go down this rabbit hole. Quite frankly, I think this whole deal has a Steve Jobs type of stink around it.

Quote
bik
That said, I actually hate all the patent lawsuits. I think it's stupid and the laws need serious overhaul. "Black, grey, and silver color" should not be factors that can be considered in a patent, in my opinion. All these companies should knock off the lawsuits, fire their legal teams, stick to making stuff, and let the market decide.

But, for now, the laws are what they are. Apple is playing the game, and any reasonable person can see that Samsung was more than just inspired by Apple's products.

I 100% agree. I am specifically saddened by Apple's decision to go down this route because I am, was primarily an Apple user. Yes, IP laws stink right now (remember the nonsense Creative sued Apple over regarding the iPod?), but Apple could have simply used their patents defensively. Apple didn't have to sue. Patents are not like Trademarks. They do not have to be actively defended, as far as I know anyway.


Quote
bik
The point of my posting was regarding the seemingly punitive action of making Apple publicly state that Samsung did not copy. If the judge feels Apple didn't make their case, I'm ok with that.

But, I do believe that Apple was the innovator here, and Samsung the beneficiary of Apple's earlier work. Apple made a claim about that, and not only did the claim get shot down, but they got their collective nose rubbed in it.

I find the outcome amusing. What if all losing aggressors in such lawsuits were required to publicly advertise the loss? Like you said, get back to work making great products and let the market decide.

Yes, Apple innovates, but Samsung has done some nice stuff as well (witness the amount of Samsung tech in any iOS device.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 11:19PM by silvarios.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: silvarios
Date: July 18, 2012 11:19PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
As I understand it, Microsoft, with whom Apple had most of the beef, actually stole lines of Mac OS code for the first version of Windows.

Apple also sued Digital Research. The problem I had/have with such lawsuits is that even if Apple licensed tech from Xerox, how does that give Apple the standing to sue over someone else's IP. Weird, right?

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Carnos Jax
I have to disagree, "progress" is coming up with a better way. So far, none of the imitators have created a better implementation of the aggregate design characteristics of the iPad.

Fair enough opinion, but I can tell you that at least in my single case, I would not own a tablet if not for Apple's competitors. Apple simply were not hitting the right mix for my family's personal needs. My iPod touches are two of my least used gadgets. I do not want an iPad at this time, even if the new retina model sure seems like a great upgrade.

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Carnos Jax
I'd normally agree with you if this was something like the whole SCO/UNIX patent dispute in which case clearly SCO was being a patent troll (among other things). But in Apple's case I think they were legitimately defending their designs.

I just don't see how you can look at the link I posted above and not think that Samsung copied Apple's design work. To me, it's blatent.

Part of my problem with the lawsuit is that Apple is fighting a proxy war with Google over Android with each of these lawsuits. Samsung is no the only company being sued. Most of the other devices most certainly do not resemble the iPhone, iPod touch, nor iPad. If Samsung was the least successful Android company, I truly do not believe Apple would expend the same amount of energy in court.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 19, 2012 06:54AM
"One look at a Samsung tablet and you will know they didn't copy the iPad."



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 19, 2012 09:31AM
Quote
(vikm)
Quote
Carnos Jax
It's not simply about rectangles.

He (and the other resident Google sympathizer) knows this. Don't waste your breath.

The last thing I would EVER do is sympathize with a 1 percent gigantic soul-sucking corporation like Google. Get it straight. These are the tax avoiding, resource hogging behemoths that are dragging America into the ground. With the kind of money they make they can afford to share much more of it with the rest of the country, which they don't and won't. I've got nothing against the people and the talent in these companies, because they're people. But they are no worse or better than a company like Apple, which too many people don't seem to acknowledge or understand. These aren't sports teams. They're just companies that make stuff that really is no different than tooth paste. There are companies that make stuff that I really like, and my Macintoshes are the number one product that I care about and I appreciate that Apple makes them and the Mac OS. But they ain't giving it to me. I have to pay for it with money I earn so I'm not kissing theirs or anyone else's butts for the privilege, including Google's. I'm not a technology bigot.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: silvarios
Date: July 19, 2012 12:42PM
Quote
vision63
There are companies that make stuff that I really like, and my Macintoshes are the number one product that I care about and I appreciate that Apple makes them and the Mac OS. But they ain't giving it to me. I have to pay for it with money I earn so I'm not kissing theirs or anyone else's butts for the privilege, including Google's. I'm not a technology bigot.

Thank you.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: silvarios
Date: July 19, 2012 12:52PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
It's not simply about rectangles.

Perhaps Asus should have blocked Apple from selling smaller flash storage notebooks without optical drives? After all, the Eee PC predates the MacBook Air. ;)

I'm clearly not serious. I hate the current tech climate at the moment. Backing any company (since many are embroiled in a--hole lawsuits against each other) makes me feel icky.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2012 12:53PM by silvarios.
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Re: UK Judge: Apple Must Say that Samsung Didn't Copy iPad
Posted by: silvarios
Date: July 19, 2012 06:31PM
Quote
(vikm)
He (and the other resident Google sympathizer) knows this. Don't waste your breath.

Are you referring to me as the "other". If so, I've spent too much time and money with Apple platforms for 20+ years to take such statements seriously. I still own a bunch of Apple kit even as I've increasingly migrated to alternatives. I no longer want to put all my eggs in one basket, especially since I'm finding Apple products no longer meet my personal needs nor technological philosophies.

That's the beauty of choice. I hate when companies want to take choice away from me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2012 06:33PM by silvarios.
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